TheFunPolice Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) NF is not an option. There is a major security concern there. Security concern? Do you mean the possibility of 65,000 people snapping their car axles on those crappy roads?! There are country roads out in the southern tier that aren't even paved and most of them are in better shape. Edited July 28, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Security concern? Do you mean the possibility of 65,000 people snapping their car axles on those crappy roads?! There are country roads out in the southern tier that aren't even paved and most of them are in better shape. While that is funny, and believe me, I know what you mean about those roads, that wasn't what I was referring to. Occidental Chemicals Chlorine division is less than 1 mile from the Milstein site. Buffalo avenue shuts down if a drop hits the ground while tanker cars load, I should know, I have several family members that work there and 1 was killed while I was a young lad in 75 due to this very concern. A Chlorine Gas cloud, should that ever happen, and pray it doesn't, has the potential to wipe out many people. Putting 80k in a stadium just down the road from a facility such as this isn't the best scenario, on several levels. Insurers have already voiced concerns about other projects in that corridor. Not to mention traffic flow, the Robert Moses due to shut down as the Lasalle expressway project ties in to Buffalo avenue in the future and the high crime rate in the immediate area surrounding that property due to drug activity, which won't go away just because a stadium is put up. There are more suitable site locations in the region. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mousetrap08 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 No I don't believe a word that them lying sacks of ah say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 While that is funny, and believe me, I know what you mean about those roads, that wasn't what I was referring to. Occidental Chemicals Chlorine division is less than 1 mile from the Milstein site. Buffalo avenue shuts down if a drop hits the ground while tanker cars load, I should know, I have several family members that work there and 1 was killed while I was a young lad in 75 due to this very concern. A Chlorine Gas cloud, should that ever happen, and pray it doesn't, has the potential to wipe out many people. Putting 80k in a stadium just down the road from a facility such as this isn't the best scenario, on several levels. Insurers have already voiced concerns about other projects in that corridor. Not to mention traffic flow, the Robert Moses due to shut down as the Lasalle expressway project ties in to Buffalo avenue in the future and the high crime rate in the immediate area surrounding that property due to drug activity, which won't go away just because a stadium is put up. There are more suitable site locations in the region. Wow that's really scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Bills Fan Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 NO chance. Why would investors from Toronto be happy with owning a team in the USA? Trust me, they will move the team CBF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Wow that's really scary. Yes it is. It's not a well known piece of information and Occidental Chemical doesn't exactly broadcast it for obvious reasons. But, I do know that if one of the larger tanks ruptures it has the potential to create a cloud that could, and I stress could, go up to 10 miles wide, 60 miles long, depending on the wind, killing every living mammal in it's path. Chlorine in it's gas state is nothing to play with. It can be very deadly, as both my family, the workers at Occidental Chemical and Occidental Chemical themselves found out the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes it is. It's not a well known piece of information and Occidental Chemical doesn't exactly broadcast it for obvious reasons. But, I do know that if one of the larger tanks ruptures it has the potential to create a cloud that could, and I stress could, go up to 10 miles wide, 60 miles long, depending on the wind, killing every living mammal in it's path. Chlorine in it's gas state is nothing to play with. It can be very deadly, as both my family, the workers at Occidental Chemical and Occidental Chemical themselves found out the hard way. Well I'm sorry for your loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes it is. It's not a well known piece of information and Occidental Chemical doesn't exactly broadcast it for obvious reasons. But, I do know that if one of the larger tanks ruptures it has the potential to create a cloud that could, and I stress could, go up to 10 miles wide, 60 miles long, depending on the wind, killing every living mammal in it's path. Chlorine in it's gas state is nothing to play with. It can be very deadly, as both my family, the workers at Occidental Chemical and Occidental Chemical themselves found out the hard way. It's not nearly the safety issue it's made out to be in some cases. Oxy has pretty rigorous tank requirements now...they really started re-vamping them in the mid-90s. My understanding is that their incidents date back to the Hooker Chemical days--the engineering office I worked in did tons of work for/with Oxy. Much of it was proactive safety-related tank/pipe replacements and containment work. Sure, if a Cl2 gas tank ruptured it'd be a massive cluster; you can say the same thing about many facilities. I mean, if the any of the methane-producing elements at the Buffalo Sewer Authority plant on Squaw Island ever experienced so much as a spark, you'd have a massive catastrophe on hand that would affect air and water quality throughout WNY. Point is, it's very, very, very unlikely. Not that I think NF is a great location; I just don't think the Oxy plant is the primary reason IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The more I read about and think about the NF idea the less sense it makes.... NF is a mess, put bluntly. I'm not saying Buffalo has it totally together but NF is literally crumbling and it is a pain to get around when they have something like the Hard Rock concerts. I can't imagine the congestion that 65,000 fans on gameday would cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The more I read about and think about the NF idea the less sense it makes.... NF is a mess, put bluntly. I'm not saying Buffalo has it totally together but NF is literally crumbling and it is a pain to get around when they have something like the Hard Rock concerts. I can't imagine the congestion that 65,000 fans on gameday would cause. Yeah that's a huge issue as well. I mean, if any group can pull it off, it'd be a huge boon for the area...my sense is that it's going to be more cost prohibitive than other options though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJasper Probincrux III Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 One more day to get those non-binding bids in Gentlemen. The trust could give us all a giant antacid and weed out the non-Billievers in round 1 but I think it's more likely that they keep them around as an effective boogeyman to drive up the price a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 It's not nearly the safety issue it's made out to be in some cases. Oxy has pretty rigorous tank requirements now...they really started re-vamping them in the mid-90s. My understanding is that their incidents date back to the Hooker Chemical days--the engineering office I worked in did tons of work for/with Oxy. Much of it was proactive safety-related tank/pipe replacements and containment work. Sure, if a Cl2 gas tank ruptured it'd be a massive cluster; you can say the same thing about many facilities. I mean, if the any of the methane-producing elements at the Buffalo Sewer Authority plant on Squaw Island ever experienced so much as a spark, you'd have a massive catastrophe on hand that would affect air and water quality throughout WNY. Point is, it's very, very, very unlikely. Not that I think NF is a great location; I just don't think the Oxy plant is the primary reason IMO. There were 27 incidents last year on Chlorine release from the transfers, 5 were documented, 2 shut down Buffalo avenue. My brother works in the Chlorine division directly as a loader, it's not as unlikely as you believe. Yes, it is true other facilities rate with risks as well, but I wasn't stating this as the primary reason to not build there, but you can bet, it's been talked about. And yes, NF is not cost effective for a project of this caliber. There are other options that just are a better fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 There were 27 incidents last year on Chlorine release from the transfers, 5 were documented, 2 shut down Buffalo avenue. My brother works in the Chlorine division directly as a loader, it's not as unlikely as you believe. Yes, it is true other facilities rate with risks as well, but I wasn't stating this as the primary reason to not build there, but you can bet, it's been talked about. And yes, NF is not cost effective for a project of this caliber. There are other options that just are a better fit. Yes, transfers are by far the more likely source of leaks--I was speaking to tank ruptures being extremely unlikely--I thought that's what you were referring to with your post. Perhaps I mis-read. I would assume it's been talked about, yes. A veritable cornucopia of contributing factors need to be taken into account for stadium siting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Well I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you, I was 5, it was a great uncle, my grandfathers brother. My grandfather worked there until the mid 80's and retired, my brother, my great uncles son and my sisters son works there. I was a contractor back in the day there, working both Dupont and Oxy for a local firm. I'm not sounding an alarm to distress people, but insurers do take risks like this into consideration. As I stated much earlier, I was involved in an industrial project in that location and McGriff, Seibles & Williams, Inc was my clients insurance firm, they most certainly included the Oxy risk in to their policy. Yes, transfers are by far the more likely source of leaks--I was speaking to tank ruptures being extremely unlikely--I thought that's what you were referring to with your post. Perhaps I mis-read. I would assume it's been talked about, yes. A veritable cornucopia of contributing factors need to be taken into account for stadium siting. Personally, I like the West Seneca possibility for a variety of reasons. Downtown, I don't know, it's tight. Outside of the waterfront or south end I'm not familiar with the east side or north side and what is available cost wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 I would love to see a downtown multi purpose stadium that would bring in other development. Currently there's no reason to go downtown because there's nothing there. Buffalo is the only city you will go to and see the waterfront taken up by factories, crappy highways, and the projects. That's prime real estate in any other city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 For me, I believe they would keep the Bills in Buffalo for as long as it made economic sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 For me, I believe they would keep the Bills in Buffalo for as long as it made economic sense. Which would probably mean raising ticket prices up to the top 3rd of the league and asking for a completely publicly financed stadium and an extremely favorable lease. If the county/state/fans balk at any of those then time to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hplarrm Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, transfers are by far the more likely source of leaks--I was speaking to tank ruptures being extremely unlikely--I thought that's what you were referring to with your post. Perhaps I mis-read. I would assume it's been talked about, yes. A veritable cornucopia of contributing factors need to be taken into account for stadium siting. Actually a growing concern has been not which accidents are predictable based on past incidence (this the scary stuff) but a growing amount of literature about more difficult to predict leaks that might occur du to terrorism. One need only to see the wind maps for a chlorine leak from the tank cars which travel along unguarded rail crossings on their way to the Blue Plains water treatment plant DC. Under prevailing wind patterns much of government would need to join Dick Cheney in some undisclosed location to survive. Terrorists have let us off lightly by focusing on "lil" things like knocking down the the World Trade Center when we are much more vulnerable to deadly attacks. The best way for the US to defend itself is to really remake society to rely far less on synthetic chemicals. This would take leadership willing to buck a lot of moneyed folks so it looks doubtful. Its possible to make this better but I am not sure we have the leadership to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Which would probably mean raising ticket prices up to the top 3rd of the league and asking for a completely publicly financed stadium and an extremely favorable lease. If the county/state/fans balk at any of those then time to go. That's usually how the game is played in the NFL. The difference this time is any new ownership are going to have their hands fairly securely tied for a number of years until the current lease runs out and won't be able to play the game effectively until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes,.........BUT we will split home games with Toronto. Just say NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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