Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Does anyone care to change their vote? Edited August 5, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Does anyone care to change their vote? I'm keeping my vote. If they are still bidding then they must think they have a way to leave town after the lease is up. If they were truly locked in to staying in Buffalo forever then they would back out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I'm keeping my vote. If they are still bidding then they must think they have a way to leave town after the lease is up. If they were truly locked in to staying in Buffalo forever then they would back out Its the opposite. They cannot be selected unless they commit. That is what some of us have been saying for 21 pages. They may WANT the team in Toronto but it isn't an option. If they want to own this NFL team it will be in WNY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 As per John Kryk, the Toronto group is expected to re-submit an initial bid and they have to have better assurance that the team will stay in Buffalo or they are out: http://blogs.canoe.c...am-sources-say/ I'm shocked...amazed...spellbound...oh no, wait, I'm not. No guarantee = no winning bid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I will never trust the Toronto group under any circumstances. God himself could descend from the sky to tell me not to worry and I would either think it was the devil in disguise or God was crossing his almighty fingers behind his back.... They just need to go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Its the opposite. They cannot be selected unless they commit. That is what some of us have been saying for 21 pages. They may WANT the team in Toronto but it isn't an option. If they want to own this NFL team it will be in WNY. It was clear in JBJ's letter that he left wiggle room to leave town. I'm sure there was a whole team of lawyers that went over that word for word to make sure he didn't say anything he couldn't later get out of when they went to move the team. If there is no chance of moving to Toronto then this group will concede now. I do believe JBJ wants a team no matter where they are but unfortunately for him he can't afford one on his own and as much as 70% of his financial backers are doing so only to get a team in Toronto. He made a d-bag move trying to steal a team so he deserves everything he gets. Maybe he will learn from this and find some new business partners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 It was clear in JBJ's letter that he left wiggle room to leave town. I'm sure there was a whole team of lawyers that went over that word for word to make sure he didn't say anything he couldn't later get out of when they went to move the team. If there is no chance of moving to Toronto then this group will concede now. I do believe JBJ wants a team no matter where they are but unfortunately for him he can't afford one on his own and as much as 70% of his financial backers are doing so only to get a team in Toronto. He made a d-bag move trying to steal a team so he deserves everything he gets. Maybe he will learn from this and find some new business partners They are two separate issues. What we have been saying is that UNLESS THEY AGREE TO STAY LONG TERM the trust will not be selecting them. It doesn't matter if we "trust" him or his intentions. It is totally irrelevant. He has 1 option if he wants to own the team and that is putting his money where his mouth is and committing to the region long term. Not with a handshake agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Its the opposite. They cannot be selected unless they commit. That is what some of us have been saying for 21 pages. They may WANT the team in Toronto but it isn't an option. If they want to own this NFL team it will be in WNY. I changed my vote. I still do not think they get the team. I believe their original plan was to buy the team with the usual lip service to keeping the team here. I believe they were willing to accept the backlash of Bills Fans not showing up for the 2015 Season, thereby allowing them to restart the Bills in Toronto Series. IIRC the lease mandates they play 50%of their home games at RWS and they would use the excuse of poor attendance to schedule 4 games in Toronto and 4 in RWS. Rogers and Tannebaum would use their influence to generate millions in corporate support attempting to prove to the NFL the team should play all their games in Toronto. Then in 2020 they would pay the relocation fee to move permanently to Toronto. Starting in 2020 they would have played at the Rogers Centre while their new stadium is constructed. They just did not count on WNY's Fairy God Billionaires Terry and Kim Pegula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 the longer this goes on with Bon Jovi the more I think one of two things: 1) The NFL wants him and wants to find a way to make it work out. 2) He is crippling his chances to ever own a team as any future attempt will also be questioned in the same way (is he looking to move it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I changed my vote. I still do not think they get the team. I believe their original plan was to buy the team with the usual lip service to keeping the team here. I believe they were willing to accept the backlash of Bills Fans not showing up for the 2015 Season, thereby allowing them to restart the Bills in Toronto Series. IIRC the lease mandates they play 50%of their home games at RWS and they would use the excuse of poor attendance to schedule 4 games in Toronto and 4 in RWS. Rogers and Tannebaum would use their influence to generate millions in corporate support attempting to prove to the NFL the team should play all their games in Toronto. Then in 2020 they would pay the relocation fee to move permanently to Toronto. Starting in 2020 they would have played at the Rogers Centre while their new stadium is constructed. They just did not count on WNY's Fairy God Billionaires Terry and Kim Pegula ...or their predecessor Ralph C. Wilson Jr. Someday, I think it will all come out and we will love him even more. This team was never in jeopardy of leaving. the longer this goes on with Bon Jovi the more I think one of two things: 1) The NFL wants him and wants to find a way to make it work out. 2) He is crippling his chances to ever own a team as any future attempt will also be questioned in the same way (is he looking to move it?) The league has no input on who buys the team. They want the highest number because it will drive their franchise values. They also want someone that isn't leveraged and has experience in ownership. Pegula sounds like that guy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 ...or their predecessor Ralph C. Wilson Jr. Someday, I think it will all come out and we will love him even more. This team was never in jeopardy of leaving. The league has no input on who buys the team. They want the highest number because it will drive their franchise values. They also want someone that isn't leveraged and has experience in ownership. Pegula sounds like that guy to me. Pegula makes all the sense in the world.... and I agree that Mr. Wilson deserves every bit of praise and love Bills fans can give him! HOF owner, but more importantly to me, HOF human being. He did so much for people that nobody is ever going to know about aside from those for whom he was a benefactor. In the case of the team, it looks like he made sure it would remain in WNY! To be fair about the poll question: it involves believing the Toronto group. They are the enemy as far as I am concerned. I trust them the way I would trust a cobra slithering around loose in my house. Any assurances that it was devenomized would provide little comfort. Let's keep that cobra up in Toronto where it belongs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Pegula makes all the sense in the world.... and I agree that Mr. Wilson deserves every bit of praise and love Bills fans can give him! HOF owner, but more importantly to me, HOF human being. He did so much for people that nobody is ever going to know about aside from those for whom he was a benefactor. In the case of the team, it looks like he made sure it would remain in WNY! To be fair about the poll question: it involves believing the Toronto group. They are the enemy as far as I am concerned. I trust them the way I would trust a cobra slithering around loose in my house. Any assurances that it was devenomized would provide little comfort. Let's keep that cobra up in Toronto where it belongs! Agree on all fronts!! The question asked if they "will" keep the team not if they "want" to keep the team in WNY. The reason that they WILL is because they cannot win the bid otherwise. Would they rather it in Toronto, of course but it isn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Agree on all fronts!! The question asked if they "will" keep the team not if they "want" to keep the team in WNY. The reason that they WILL is because they cannot win the bid otherwise. Would they rather it in Toronto, of course but it isn't an option. true... I will just never feel good about them but it looks like they are imploding anyway From their point of view, why bother resubmitting a bid? They know they aren't winning, and they owe the Bills ownership no favors given how things have played out. Edited August 5, 2014 by TheFunPolice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 ...or their predecessor Ralph C. Wilson Jr. Someday, I think it will all come out and we will love him even more. This team was never in jeopardy of leaving. It would not surprise me if Mary Wilson an interview where she states, Ralph never was going to allow the team to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 true... I will just never feel good about them but it looks like they are imploding anyway From their point of view, why bother resubmitting a bid? They know they aren't winning, and they owe the Bills ownership no favors given how things have played out. Yeah, they are just being used now. They are trying to keep them around to keep the bids up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yeah, they are just being used now. They are trying to keep them around to keep the bids up. They must know that, and they must know that they are being vilified and laughed at (depending on which side of the border you're talking about). What's the upside for them? The only thing my tinfoil hat can come up with is that some other team (Rams?) might be in play later if they play nice now. Otherwise they have nothing to gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Seems like (potentially) an obvious repeat of the Sonics/Thunder situation. Clay Bennett paid a decent amount of lip service to keeping the team in Seattle, but -- surprise, surprise -- stadium talks fell through, and poor ol' Clay had no choice but to pack up and move to his hometown, which everyone expected in the first place. Difference here is that JBJ is from New Jersey, not Toronto, but given that the group is all Toronto based except for JBJ, I think the analogy still holds very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Eventually they'll attempt to move. Until then, we'll be hearing everything we're hearing now from them. If they can't move, they'll sell for a nice profit. Art Model would "never move the Browns." Right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) Seems like (potentially) an obvious repeat of the Sonics/Thunder situation. Clay Bennett paid a decent amount of lip service to keeping the team in Seattle, but -- surprise, surprise -- stadium talks fell through, and poor ol' Clay had no choice but to pack up and move to his hometown, which everyone expected in the first place. Difference here is that JBJ is from New Jersey, not Toronto, but given that the group is all Toronto based except for JBJ, I think the analogy still holds very well. Which is partially why their initial bid was rejected. Edited August 5, 2014 by Fingon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 true... I will just never feel good about them but it looks like they are imploding anyway From their point of view, why bother resubmitting a bid? They know they aren't winning, and they owe the Bills ownership no favors given how things have played out. I have no idea. They are clearly being played at the moment and are hurting their future chances. If I had to guess, they want to prove to the league and other owners that they have the financial capability to hang until the end? They must know that, and they must know that they are being vilified and laughed at (depending on which side of the border you're talking about). What's the upside for them? The only thing my tinfoil hat can come up with is that some other team (Rams?) might be in play later if they play nice now. Otherwise they have nothing to gain. I think that you are dead on. There can't be another reason. Seems like (potentially) an obvious repeat of the Sonics/Thunder situation. Clay Bennett paid a decent amount of lip service to keeping the team in Seattle, but -- surprise, surprise -- stadium talks fell through, and poor ol' Clay had no choice but to pack up and move to his hometown, which everyone expected in the first place. Difference here is that JBJ is from New Jersey, not Toronto, but given that the group is all Toronto based except for JBJ, I think the analogy still holds very well. Except a lesson was learned from Seattle. JBJ and Co, will not be given the opportunity to operate in good faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Does anyone care to change their vote? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think there are 2 opinions here, and those opinions are interpreting the question in different ways, but really agree. I interpret it as "is the Toronto group planning on owning and running a team in Buffalo and do we believe Jaws and Bon Jovi's letter, etc"? Others read it as "do you think the Toronto Group will ever own the Bills and move them out of Buffalo"? the question reads: Do you believe the Toronto group when they say they will keep the team in Buffalo? The answer is no. Nobody believes them and their bid was rejected because Morgan Stanley doesnt believe them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think there are 2 opinions here, and those opinions are interpreting the question in different ways, but really agree. I interpret it as "is the Toronto group planning on owning and running a team in Buffalo and do we believe Jaws and Bon Jovi's letter, etc"? Others read it as "do you think the Toronto Group will ever own the Bills and move them out of Buffalo"? the question reads: Do you believe the Toronto group when they say they will keep the team in Buffalo? The answer is no. Nobody believes them and their bid was rejected because Morgan Stanley doesnt believe them JACKPOT! thanks for summarizing. by denying their bid, the Trust basically said "we don't believe you." they voted NO in this poll essentially. Lucky for us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I think there are 2 opinions here, and those opinions are interpreting the question in different ways, but really agree. I interpret it as "is the Toronto group planning on owning and running a team in Buffalo and do we believe Jaws and Bon Jovi's letter, etc"? Others read it as "do you think the Toronto Group will ever own the Bills and move them out of Buffalo"? the question reads: Do you believe the Toronto group when they say they will keep the team in Buffalo? The answer is no. Nobody believes them and their bid was rejected because Morgan Stanley doesnt believe them That's correct because I read it as "will they keep the team" not "do you believe them." They will keep the team because they will not own them otherwise. Would they rather be in Toronto yes, but that isn't an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Last chance to buy your tickets, the "I told you so" train is leaving the station in less than a month. There are only 13 of us on board with another 14 traveling standby. Edited August 18, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Last chance to buy your tickets, the "I told you so" train is leaving the station in less than a month. There are only 13 of us on board with another 14 traveling standby. P.S. I am celebrating this like Kevin Massare would. I think you are concussed or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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