Do you believe that the Toronto group will keep the team in Buffalo?

[Hplarrm]

Yes,.........BUT we will split home games with Toronto. Just say NO!

 

The NFL essentially has a veto over who is sold the team. They will require the new owner to make public statements of their intent to remain in Buffalo. Do I trust JBJ or the Toronto guys?

 

No.

 

However I think that:

 

A. JBJ/CA will not be allowed to simply lie to their new businessmates.

B.The NFL tends to do what makes them the most $. The NFL makes the most $ not from simply abandoning their share of 45,000 Buffalo season ticket buyers, 10s of thousands individual ticket buyers, millions of dollars in other already cultivated business ties for the NFL's share of building the same thing in the larger Toronto market. Instead, the NFL will almost certainly choose to have both. The NFL is clearly on an expansion track and my sense is would love to and plans to add franchises in Toronto, Mexico City, and figure out the timezone issues for franchises in Stuttgart, Tokyo, Beijing, etc.

C. By leaving Buffalo, the NFL puts at risk its limited exemption from anti-trust laws.

D. By leaving Buffalo (particularly if the deathmarch starts as soon as JBJ/CA buy the team because they give no concrete signing or contracting to stay, the NFL and TV nets do not want to make a sad story for years.

 

Theteam stays in Buffalo even if JBJ/CA buy it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HopefulFuture]

The NFL essentially has a veto over who is sold the team. They will require the new owner to make public statements of their intent to remain in Buffalo. Do I trust JBJ or the Toronto guys?

 

No.

 

However I think that:

 

A. JBJ/CA will not be allowed to simply lie to their new businessmates.

B.The NFL tends to do what makes them the most $. The NFL makes the most $ not from simply abandoning their share of 45,000 Buffalo season ticket buyers, 10s of thousands individual ticket buyers, millions of dollars in other already cultivated business ties for the NFL's share of building the same thing in the larger Toronto market. Instead, the NFL will almost certainly choose to have both. The NFL is clearly on an expansion track and my sense is would love to and plans to add franchises in Toronto, Mexico City, and figure out the timezone issues for franchises in Stuttgart, Tokyo, Beijing, etc.

C. By leaving Buffalo, the NFL puts at risk its limited exemption from anti-trust laws.

D. By leaving Buffalo (particularly if the deathmarch starts as soon as JBJ/CA buy the team because they give no concrete signing or contracting to stay, the NFL and TV nets do not want to make a sad story for years.

 

Theteam stays in Buffalo even if JBJ/CA buy it.

 

Where has the NFL stated they require a purchaser of the Bills to remain in Buffalo?

As I recall, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, stated a new stadium is most likely needed for the team to remain in Buffalo, but I don't recall him saying the team must remain in Buffalo. And he wouldn't be, nor would the NFL be, foolish enough to make such a comment.

[KDIGGZ]

Big day today. Maybe once the bids come in the trust will see there are enough bids from buyers looking to keep the team here and they can eliminate the Toronto group. I can dream can't i?

[Hplarrm]

 

 

Where has the NFL stated they require a purchaser of the Bills to remain in Buffalo?

As I recall, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, stated a new stadium is most likely needed for the team to remain in Buffalo, but I don't recall him saying the team must remain in Buffalo. And he wouldn't be, nor would the NFL be, foolish enough to make such a comment.

No where and the NFL would never make such a statement because having Toronto based entities such as the JBJ/CA group interested and in play creates competition that bids up the price of the team.

 

I (and you and no one else) knows fer sure what the outcome of who purchases will be, but amid all of our speculation the following things appear true to me, please tell me why if you think any of these things are untrue:

 

The decision-makers on who will be the ultimate owner are 2 groups:

 

1. The Ralph Wilson Trust

2. The NFL itself.

 

The Ralph Wilson Trust views are reflected in the public statements of his wife who is recognized legally as the current owner of the franchise by the NFL. His wife has publicly stated about yes, getting a good deal is what Ralph was all about, but not only about as the city of Buffalo was incredibly important to him as shown by the FACT he kept the team here throughout his life even though there was more money to be made elsewhere.

 

Mary has not made the statement that the trust would only sell to an owner committed to keeping the team here, but then why would she as having as many bidders as possible is only helpful. However, she has made public comments about the importance of Buffalo to Ralph and the Bills franchise.

 

SHE HAS NEVER SAID THAT THE STATUS QUO (the Bills in Buffalo) MUST OR WILL BE BROKEN IF THE HIGH BIDDER IS GOING TO MOVE THE TEAM OUT OF TOWN.

 

I believe that the key to understanding this or credibly arguing a point of view is NOT the question of whether anyone in charge has made a statement that the Bills must stay BUT instead has anyone in the Trust or the NFL made a statement that the team must go or even that it will be sold to the highest bidder?

 

The default is that the team remains here. No one and I mean no one has laid out a case of showing quote after quote from the Trust or the NFL that the team must or even might go.

 

The default is the status quo and no one beyond some unsupported assumption that the team will go to a larger market has demonstrated the team will go.

 

The IMPORTANT thing here though to understand is that long ago contractually, Ralph agreed to operate hand in glove with his partners in the NFL. Ralph did object strongly to the last CBA agreement and in the end only he and Cincy voted against the deal, but Ralph agreed contractually to do what the majority of owners voted to do even if he individually disagreed. Even more amazing Ralph agreed to follow the lead of not only a simple majority but contractually agreed that when his team was sold at his death that 75% of his fellow owners would NEED to approve the sale by his heirs (The Trust).

 

Ralph agreed contractually to essentially give the NFL a veto over the potential partner chosen by his heirs. This only makes sense actually as lets say the highest bidder was Osana bin Laden's brother who is on record saying nice things about his bro. The other NFL owners simply can not be forced into a position where they must work with or justify a choice by the Trust based on the highest bidder or whatever reason. We see the same rule of reality working in other leagues where in the NBA all the owners vote unanimously to force Donald Sterling to sale his team because trying to defend his views or comments hurts the value of their teams.

 

My judgment (GUESS) on this is that:

 

1. No one has laid out the quotes that show that the status quo of this near billion $ business will change. If you demand quotes that show the team will stay, this only shows a need for even clearer quotes showing the status quo will change.

 

2. The Trust in the form of Mary Wilson has made statements (if you do not remember I can try to dig them up but may not have the time) about the importance of Buffalo to her husband. Again, are there any quotes which indicate that the Trust is gonna move the team to some specific location. Changing the default is the proof that has to be given not the other way around/

 

The Bills well MAY move, but the only credible case that has even attempted to be made is the Toronto move (actual owners id'ed- the Roger/Tannenbaum folks). On the other hand credible proposals from two owners committed to keeping the team here, the Pegulas and Golisano have been id'ed.

 

Add to this, that several significant sources of publicity and promotion (storytelling) who are invested in the team remaining here in Jim Kelly and other rich well-know HoF players would easily add their powers to a keep them here bid.

 

There are also logical (maybe true but maybe not like the unsupported conclusion of many that the highest bidder gets the team) reasons to actually conclude the team stays here, that include:

 

1. How much bad storytelling would a move create and is storytelling important to the NFL and the real cash cow, the TV nets.

 

If the team were to move it would make the upset created for the NFL product when the Mayflower vans crept out of Baltimore and when Modell abandoned Cleveland look like a walk in the park. If the team moved the NFL would have to deal with at least a year (almost certainly two) of the story of the NFL being all about how they abandoned Buffalo and the impacts on our municipality. Ralph has done Buffalo a tremendous favor by constructing a contract with Erie County which actually guarantees that the death march of bad storytelling would last for as much as 7 years (plus the 1 or 2 years of retrospectives).

 

Add to this that another thing which weighs against a choice between a franchise either in Buffalo or a franchise in Toronto is that NO ONE has laid out a case why the NFL cannot have franchises in both Buffalo and in Toronto. In fact, it is simply obvious that the NFL wants to and can expand the number of franchises. Given a choice between two and given the sense the NFL always goes for the most money the answer is BOTH.

 

In the end, the NFL spent 40 years building a successful near billion dollar business in Buffalo. Does anyone make a credible case that the NFL will simply walk away from the 45,000+ season ticket holders the 10,000s of individual ticket buyer, the millions in local advertisers who cannot go with the team, the 100s of millions in local tax subsidies, and to put at risk the limited anti-trust exemption as the NFL leaves no (zero, nada) teams which play in NYS.

 

No one has made a credible case on the Stadium Wall or anywhere that the status quo is gonna change to a particular outcome be it Toronto or the equivalent of Microsoft Steve Baumer who last I checked is buying the Clippers but shows no sign of moving the team.

 

[thebandit27]

Where has the NFL stated they require a purchaser of the Bills to remain in Buffalo?

As I recall, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, stated a new stadium is most likely needed for the team to remain in Buffalo, but I don't recall him saying the team must remain in Buffalo. And he wouldn't be, nor would the NFL be, foolish enough to make such a comment.

 

Publicly...they haven't made that comment publicly.

 

Very key distinction IMO

[CodeMonkey]

They will require the new owner to make public statements of their intent to remain in Buffalo.

 

This is just pure silliness

 

Where has the NFL stated they require a purchaser of the Bills to remain in Buffalo?

As I recall, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell, stated a new stadium is most likely needed for the team to remain in Buffalo, but I don't recall him saying the team must remain in Buffalo. And he wouldn't be, nor would the NFL be, foolish enough to make such a comment.

Publicly...they haven't made that comment publicly.

 

Very key distinction IMO

Hopeful, the theory is that some people here have inside information. They can make some statements, but not with enough detail as to give away the source of the information.

It's like with a large part of religion, you either believe or you don't.

Edited July 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[KDIGGZ]

Awesome article: http://nymag.com/news/features/jon-bon-jovi-buffalo-bills-2014-7/

 

F Bon Jovi!!!

[CodeMonkey]

Awesome article: http://nymag.com/new...o-bills-2014-7/

 

F Bon Jovi!!!

It certainly is long. But no information, just basically as you say, F Bon Jovi. And with lines like "the protest seemed to have gotten Bon Jovi’s attention", it's a little hard to take seriously.

[Kipers Hair]

I understand JBJ is selling his SoHo apartment for $47MM...asking at least. He is competing against a Pegula who sold land for, what, $1.5B? JBJ is still and shall forever be arena league when it comes to football...he is a fly on Pegula's windscreen. The NFL is old school money, and lots of it...Bills going nowhere. Carry on.

[HopefulFuture]

This is just pure silliness

 

 

 

Hopeful, the theory is that some people here have inside information. They can make some statements, but not with enough detail as to give away the source of the information.

It's like with a large part of religion, you either believe or you don't.

 

Yes, I understand. Just wasn't aware this was inside skinny is all.

 

No where and the NFL would never make such a statement because having Toronto based entities such as the JBJ/CA group interested and in play creates competition that bids up the price of the team.

 

 

While I agree with this, and I shortened the quote to say that is very plausible. I firmly believe a local bidder will get the team. But, it's just my belief, it's not something I know with concrete certainty.

What I do know is there is a great deal of activity surrounding the future plans of the team from certain parties in the region. Off field, not on.

[KDIGGZ]

It certainly is long. But no information, just basically as you say, F Bon Jovi. And with lines like "the protest seemed to have gotten Bon Jovi’s attention", it's a little hard to take seriously.

Makes for a good read though and the more word we can circulate about this then the better

[May Day 10]

Once St Louis, San Diego, and Oakland are set, it will be announced that the NFL is expanding and they will leverage that to extort what they can out of Toronto/Ontario before they announce that Bon Jovi/Tanenbaum/Rogers are being awarded a franchise

[Storm Front]

Bon Jovi does seem to have an in with Kraft and Goddell. I would say his chances of owning the Bills are better than anyone's. Especially since Kraft has stated that he wants to expand the reach of the NFL into foreign countries. Don't kid yourselves folks, it's all about the dollars with the majority of NFL owners. They don't give a rats a$$ where the Bills are located. Luxury boxe$, corporate sponsorship$, and lucrative TV deal$ are what they crave most.

[Best Player Available]

Bon Jovi does seem to have an in with Kraft and Goddell. I would say his chances of owning the Bills are better than anyone's. Especially since Kraft has stated that he wants to expand the reach of the NFL into foreign countries. Don't kid yourselves folks, it's all about the dollars with the majority of NFL owners. They don't give a rats a$$ where the Bills are located. Luxury boxe$, corporate sponsorship$, and lucrative TV deal$ are what they crave most.

Jon BJ needs a lot more support than Kraft and Jones and even the commish. he needs 3/4 up votes from the owners.

maybe Ralph was more respected among owners than known. he certainly was correct on a couple of things awhile back during league meetings. His chances are not better than anyone else's by a long shot. For one his pockets are really not that deep. the Canadians will not win a bidding war.

 

 

[thebandit27]

Bon Jovi does seem to have an in with Kraft and Goddell. I would say his chances of owning the Bills are better than anyone's. Especially since Kraft has stated that he wants to expand the reach of the NFL into foreign countries. Don't kid yourselves folks, it's all about the dollars with the majority of NFL owners. They don't give a rats a$$ where the Bills are located. Luxury boxe$, corporate sponsorship$, and lucrative TV deal$ are what they crave most.

 

Almost none of this is accurate

[CodeMonkey]

Bon Jovi does seem to have an in with Kraft and Goddell. I would say his chances of owning the Bills are better than anyone's. Especially since Kraft has stated that he wants to expand the reach of the NFL into foreign countries. Don't kid yourselves folks, it's all about the dollars with the majority of NFL owners. They don't give a rats a$$ where the Bills are located. Luxury boxe$, corporate sponsorship$, and lucrative TV deal$ are what they crave most.

Except for the bolded I agree with you. I still have to think Pegula is the frontrunner out of everyone that we know about so far.

[Kirby Jackson]

Bon Jovi does seem to have an in with Kraft and Goddell. I would say his chances of owning the Bills are better than anyone's. Especially since Kraft has stated that he wants to expand the reach of the NFL into foreign countries. Don't kid yourselves folks, it's all about the dollars with the majority of NFL owners. They don't give a rats a$$ where the Bills are located. Luxury boxe$, corporate sponsorship$, and lucrative TV deal$ are what they crave most.

The owners keep luxury boxes and team sponsorships so that isn't applicable to other owners.

 

What they care about MOST in small markets is their anti-trust exemption. If someone threatened to move the Bills the NY politicians would challenge this. There is no chance that owners in Jax, Cleveland, Cincy, Charlotte, New Orleans, Kansas City, Green Bay, etc.... would vote for relocation with this pending.

 

I am with Code Monkey too in thinking that Pegula is the favorite. He makes way too much sense. Wealthy, local and liquid, it would take him about 30 seconds to be confirmed by the other owners.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[Peter]

The owners keep luxury boxes and team sponsorships so that isn't applicable to other owners.

 

What they care about MOST in small markets in their anti-trust exemption. If someone threatened to move the Bills the NY politicians would challenge this. There is no chance that owners in Jax, Cleveland, Cincy, Charlotte, New Orleans, Kansas City, Green Bay, etc.... would vote for relocation with this pending.

 

I am with Code Monkey too in thinking that Pegula is the favorite. He makes way too much sense. Wealthy, local and liquid, it would take him about 30 seconds to be confirmed by the other owners.

Very well said!

[May Day 10]

I am with Code Monkey too in thinking that Pegula is the favorite. He makes way too much sense. Wealthy, local and liquid, it would take him about 30 seconds to be confirmed by the other owners.

 

why wouldnt the owners want Pegula and the capital he will surely invest in the team out of pocket.

 

AND

 

a team in Toronto, leveraged some provincial and city monies... as well as a new Franchise fee from Rogers, etc

[CodeMonkey]

What they care about MOST in small markets in their anti-trust exemption. If someone threatened to move the Bills the NY politicians would challenge this. There is no chance that owners in Jax, Cleveland, Cincy, Charlotte, New Orleans, Kansas City, Green Bay, etc.... would vote for relocation with this pending.

My thinking is 180 degrees from this.

There is no way, in my opinion, that politicians across the US would vote for removing the anti-trust exemption for the single fact that the most important thing to them, is their own re-election. And doing something intentionally that hurts,and maybe even kills, the nations most popular sport and pastime for the sake of keeping a team in Buffalo NY? No how, no way in my opinion. I don't care how many friends Sen. Chuckles has, he is not going to convince the number of his colleagues he would need to pull that off to commit political suicide like that. And the NFL and it's owners, big time businessmen most of them, know that full well.