Foundation Crumbling

[PromoTheRobot]

In this league it's all about defense and the HC and QB spots. At least if the objective is to win the SB.

 

With the hits on defense .... Kiko, Byrd, Pettine and the unknown commodity that is Dareus, this defense isn't as strong now as it was last year ... and last year's defense wasn't near good enough so, can't imagine it would be this year. So, strike one off from above.

 

Neither the coaching staff nor QB spot should be viewed as a strength. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that they are weaknesses, which, may well end up being strike 2 and 3 off the above list.

 

Looking at this objectively ..... does anyone actually see sufficient strength in all 3 of the above areas such that the team should be considered a viable SB contender?

Is that what you were doing? Looking at the team objectively? Being objective usually requires impartiality. Not cherry picking and spinning negatives.

[transient]

Looks like I picked the wrong offseason to stop sniffing glue.

[3rdand12]

Looks like I picked the wrong offseason to stop sniffing glue.

No one likes a quitter Transient. Keep that in mind

[YoloinOhio]

I'm not taking his side on the Doom, but can't you people read???

 

He's not saying Kiko is worth 20 points. He's saying that a promising strategy is being derailed due to a sequence of bad luck on the defense: losing Byrd, losing Pettine, Dareous' stupidity and possible suspension, and now losing our best linebacker. Add up all of those things and you're arguably talking 20 points - that's what he's saying, and that's why the thread is 'Crumbling Foundation' and not 'Yet another Kiko post'.

 

20 points? I don't know about that many. But I think the basic point is legit.

i see what he is saying but IMO Byrd and Pettine were never part of the long term strategy. They have replacements lined up who they think will be as good or better. Dareus most likely will not see a suspension at least this season as long as he keeps his nose clean. So that is why Kiko looks like the main piece of the strategy who will be missing. And I do think he will be missed. But it could be worse considering we have considerable LB depth, he isn't our only playmaker on D, and LB is one of the easiest positions to adapt to as a rookie and succeed (re: Preston brown) Edited July 4, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[Bob Malooga]

This team was attempting to build a very strong defense to keep it in contention while they added young talent to the offense. The team was intended to win with defense and not lose the game on offense.

 

This is illustrated by the selection of EJ Manuel as it's QB. I think that Manuel can be a competent starter with a very good defense to take pressure off of him and significant talent around him on offense. However, I don't see Manuel as a top 5 QB. Who can carry a team on his back.

 

I felt that the Bills' strategy of building a very strong D and adding offensive talent around Manuel was a good one. Unfortunately, the defense that was the foundation of the team has crumbled this offseason - mostly through no fault of the organization. Byrd didn't want to be here, so one Pro Bowl defender gone. Then the Browns hired DC Mike Pettiness away leaving Jim Schwartz and his whack wide-9 scheme in its place. Next, talented but under-achieving Marcell Dareus put himself in position to be suspended. Finally (hopefully), the Bills lost their only starting caliber LB. (Alonzo).

 

The team is now left with 3-4 personnel trying to play a 4-3- likely missing Dareus for a chunk ofmthenseason. I would venture to say that the defense went from potentially very good to a liability with perhaps a bottom 10 defense.

 

The offense now has some young talent at WR and OL, with an inexperienced QB who has shown enough to be hopeful that he could become an effective game manager.

 

Unfortunately, they really needed to focus on winning 14-10, but now they'll be lucky to hold many opponents below 25-30 points - that is a pace that this young O could not sustain for an entire half

I just cannot take someone seriously if they cannot even spell the player's name correctly.

 

There is a reason Jim Schwartz got his first head coaching position a long time before Mike Pettine.

 

Aaron Williams will replace Jairus Byrd just fine, and be healthy a lot more...and someone will step up for that vacant SS spot now.

 

Just the same, someone will step up for the injured ALONSO...most likely being Bradham, who was rated higher and had better measurables than Kiko, coming out of the combine and into their respective drafts. Nigel Bradham was one of the highest rated linebackers coming out of high school and he ended up starting games at Florida State as a true freshman, I believe. I know he at least played in 13 games as a true freshman. He can run like a gazelle and hit like a mack truck, and he is not as big a liability in coverage as many think. He is a perfect 4-3 OLB and nearing a contract year. (He was rated very highly by PFF last year.)

 

Losing Kiko Alonso sucks, but it is far from having a direct impact on the "foundation" of the defense "crumbling."

 

Between Bradham, Rivers, Lawson, Powell, Brown, Johnson...someone will eventually step up and make a name for themselves at OLB.

 

And again, just the same...between Searcy, D. Williams, Meeks and Ladler...someone will eventually step up and make a name for themselves at SS.

 

Nothing has ever been won or lost in mini-camps and OTA's...there is plenty of time to get it together...better now than in October.

 

(And people are really bashing the jobs Nix and Whaley have done turning over and improving this roster? Wow, those are the clueless people who just like to B word about anything they can find to B word about...it's absolutely absurd...they've done a hell of a job, with every single aspect of this rebuild...we're finally respectable!)

Edited July 4, 2014 by Bob Malooga

[White Linen]

 

 

Did you even read my post? Nowhere in there did I say that there was no young talent or that the entire foundation of the team was gone. Nor did I say that EJ Manuel was bad. I described Manuel as a young inexperienced QB whom I think can develop into a good game manager - and that isn't a criticism, teams can win with strong defense and a solid QB that manages the game.

 

Further, I said that the team was built counting on a very strong defense to carry them while they assembled and developed the young talent on offense. The point of my post was that the defense (that they were counting on to be very strong) has taken several unplanned big hits this offseason and doesn't look like it will be a big strength - at least it doesn't to me.

 

My post was lamenting the Bills' bad luck. I happened to agree with their strategy.

 

So, for everyone that tried to simplify my post into "one player's injury doomed the season" or worse inserted things that I specifically did not say - chill and learn to read.

 

Is the foundation crumbling or crumbled?

[CardinalScotts]

Kiko is a great player but as a weakside LB his loss will not be dramatic. I believe they will have some type of Brown/Rivers combo and the drop off will be marginal. They also have 3 months to design a game plan to cover for a weakness, Schwartz will do that. Defense will still be better than last year and the offense is high octane if EJ plays well. It still goes back to the Quarterback.

[Beerball]

People have this romantic notion of the Bills 2014 defense. Please folks, (if you are thinking Pettine's loss will be difficult to overcome) go look at last season. Yes, the defense go sacks, but at what expense? How good were they really?

 

I don't know whether Schwartz will field a better defense (based on personnel/scheme), frankly, I'm skeptical (but also hopeful). But, if you are sitting in your home pining for the "Pettine years" I'd ask you to reconsider.

[Pneumonic]

Is that what you were doing? Looking at the team objectively? Being objective usually requires impartiality. Not cherry picking and spinning negatives.

 

So, you think that I am not being objective because I question that the viability of this team as a SB contender due to the key losses on defense and not being suitably strong enough at the QB and coaching spots?

 

Would you feel better if I said the losses on defense will make for a better unit and that Manual and the coaches will perform at very high levels in their respective roles, despite never having done so previously?

Edited July 5, 2014 by Pneumonic

[Beerball]

So, you think that I am not being objective because I question that the viability of this team as a SB contender due to the key losses on defense and not being suitably strong enough at the QB and coaching spots?

 

Would you feel better if I said the losses on defense will make for a better unit and that Manual and the coaches will perform at very high levels in their respective roles, despite never having done so previously?

Anybody who is thinking SB contender and Buffalo Bills doesn't have a firm grasp on reality. Do you really expect this franchise to make the leap from lower mediocrity to SB contender in one off season? I ask myself whether they are better today than they were when last season ended. That's an easy one to answer. They still have major ??? in several areas, but, they are much better from a talent perspective than they've been in the last dozen years. They now have a foundation to build on. You couldn't say that 8, 5, 3 or 2 years ago. Would I love an overnight transformation? Hell yes. Do I expect one? Hell no.

[YoloinOhio]

Kiko is a great player but as a weakside LB his loss will not be dramatic. I believe they will have some type of Brown/Rivers combo and the drop off will be marginal. They also have 3 months to design a game plan to cover for a weakness, Schwartz will do that. Defense will still be better than last year and the offense is high octane if EJ plays well. It still goes back to the Quarterback.

losing Kiko will make Schwartz earn his money. It's his problem and he has time to fix it as best he can either with guys we already have or he needs to let Whaley know they need more.

[PromoTheRobot]

Anybody who is thinking SB contender and Buffalo Bills doesn't have a firm grasp on reality. Do you really expect this franchise to make the leap from lower mediocrity to SB contender in one off season? I ask myself whether they are better today than they were when last season ended. That's an easy one to answer. They still have major ??? in several areas, but, they are much better from a talent perspective than they've been in the last dozen years. They now have a foundation to build on. You couldn't say that 8, 5, 3 or 2 years ago. Would I love an overnight transformation? Hell yes. Do I expect one? Hell no.

 

To be fair, no one..and I mean NO ONE...thought the Bills were playoff material going into the 1988 season.

 

1986 season = 4-12

1987 season = 7-8

1988 season = 12-4

[Beerball]

To be fair, no one..and I mean NO ONE...thought the Bills were playoff material going into the 1988 season.

 

1986 season = 4-12

1987 season = 7-8

1988 season = 12-4

I dunno PTR. Steady improvement season over season. Why didn't you expect playoffs?

 

Regarding the post I quoted...there's a big difference between playoff and SB contender. For now I'd be happy with a playoff contender. Let the SB talk come after that.

[CountryCletus]

I dunno PTR. Steady improvement season over season. Why didn't you expect playoffs?

 

Regarding the post I quoted...there's a big difference between playoff and SB contender. For now I'd be happy with a playoff contender. Let the SB talk come after that.

 

Definitely agree- let's get to the playoffs... Something that I haven't experienced as an adult...

[outsidethebox]

What's with all the doom and gloom? Let's play some games before we come to any conclusion. I think with the young talent we drafted last year will have a year 7 del there belt will only make them better. With 5 he free agents and rookies we drafted I have hope for once for a playoff team. Losing kiko hurts but he is only one guy.

[PromoTheRobot]

I dunno PTR. Steady improvement season over season. Why didn't you expect playoffs?

 

Regarding the post I quoted...there's a big difference between playoff and SB contender. For now I'd be happy with a playoff contender. Let the SB talk come after that.

I guess Bills fans we're just more optimistic in the 80's.

 

By the time 1988 rolled around, there was palpable optimism in Buffalo, although not much was expected of the Bills outside of Western New York.

http://www.profootballrosters.com/2012/09/12/1986-1988-buffalo-bills/

Edited July 5, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[CountryCletus]

What's with all the doom and gloom? Let's play some games before we come to any conclusion. I think with the young talent we drafted last year will have a year 7 del there belt will only make them better. With 5 he free agents and rookies we drafted I have hope for once for a playoff team. Losing kiko hurts but he is only one guy.

 

we can't play the doom and gloom game if they start playing games... We then start winning...

[3rdand12]

we can't play the doom and gloom game if they start playing games... We then start winning...

I may suggest that Schwartz might well be the best DC we have had since.. well Wade Phillips . ha .

I love Pettines style and method. Much more fun to watch. I expect Jims will be more efficient and less fun.

So i will sacrifice my enjoyment of watching blown up plays and sacks and those INTs for wins.

everyday.

this is the time for both ends of the spectrum Country doom and gloom vs visions of Grandeur. i have no problem with that.

Go Bills

Go Donnie Henderson and Pepper Johnson ! !

Ps Cletus , I like that attitude

 

I expect to win .

Edited July 5, 2014 by 3rdand12

[Chandler#81]

 

 

To be fair, no one..and I mean NO ONE...thought the Bills were playoff material going into the 1988 season.

 

1986 season = 4-12

1987 season = 7-8

1988 season = 12-4

 

That's incorrect. I made the largest bet of my life prior to the '88 season that we would make the playoffs. $500 was a lot of money back then and paid for wonderful Oilers & Bengals game parties.

 

We only missed the playoffs in '87 by a 14-7 season finale loss at home to the Pats* -even with 2 Scab game losses. The Bills were primed by then with Kelly, Reed, a great OL & DL and Co-ROY's in Conlan & Bennett.

[CodeMonkey]

Anybody who is thinking SB contender and Buffalo Bills doesn't have a firm grasp on reality. Do you really expect this franchise to make the leap from lower mediocrity to SB contender in one off season? I ask myself whether they are better today than they were when last season ended. That's an easy one to answer. They still have major ??? in several areas, but, they are much better from a talent perspective than they've been in the last dozen years. They now have a foundation to build on. You couldn't say that 8, 5, 3 or 2 years ago. Would I love an overnight transformation? Hell yes. Do I expect one? Hell no.

Is it? I agree with your basic premise in the post. But they lost Byrd and Kiko, picked up Watkins and some help on the O line. Hopefully Spiller and Manuel will be able to stay on the field and improve over last season. I don't think they have gotten much, if any, worse. But easily better ... that's tough to agree with.