simpleman Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Watkins, he's the most gifted offensive player that the Bills have had since the Super Bowl era. Not saying Watkins might not be what you wish him to be, but he has not played a single down in the NFL real season. A little early to call him the most gifted offensive player that Buffalo ever had. QB JR might have had similar said about him not that many years ago. Ask me after he has played a full season with the Bills. A lot of players had great potential from college ball, but it did not translate into NFL success. Ask all the top 10 picks in the draft in the past 50 years how reliably that great potential translates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Not saying Watkins might not be what you wish him to be, but he has not played a single down in the NFL real season. A little early to call him the most gifted offensive player that Buffalo ever had. QB JR might have had similar said about him not that many years ago. Ask me after he has played a full season with the Bills. A lot of players had great potential from college ball, but it did not translate into NFL success. Ask all the top 10 picks in the draft in the past 50 years how reliably that great potential translates. Obviously, he hasn't played a down but his grade by the scouts (I believe) is higher than any offensive player that they have taken since OJ. That doesn't mean that he will be great. The same could have been said for Andrew Luck 2 years ago. He had never played a down either but all the signs were there. In terms of the QB, were you referring to Rob Johnson or JP Losman? If so, neither was anywhere near the prospect that Watkins is. Losman was the 4th QB off the board and a reach at that. He was a 2nd round talent but the Bills were desperate. Rob Johnson was a 4th round pick that had 1 start. Watkins was the top overall player on multiple teams draft boards. Of course they have to play the game but I have seen enough of him in college to believe that his game will translate without any issues. I don't expect Calvin Johnson numbers this year but do expect 70 catches, 1050 yards & 7 TDs. Edited June 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Obviously, he hasn't played I down but his grade by the scouts (I believe) is higher than any offensive player that they have taken since OJ. That doesn't mean that he will be great. The same could have been said for Andrew Luck 2 years ago. He had never played a down either but all the signs were there. In terms of the QB, were you referring to Rob Johnson or JP Losman? If so, neither was anywhere near the prospect that Watkins is. Losman was the 4th QB off the board and a reach at that. He was a 2nd round talent but the Bills were desperate. Rob Johnson was a 4th round pick that had 1 start. Watkins was the top overall player on multiple teams draft boards. Of course they have to play the game but I have seen enough of him in college to believe that his game will translate without any issues. I don't expect Calvin Johnson numbers this year but do expect 70 catches, 1050 yards & 7 TDs. I was referring to JaMarcus Russell. 21–4 as a starter in college, 7–18 in the NFL. MVP in the Sugar Bowl. Drafted 1st . Potential means nothing till it is proven on the field in the real season. Even the pre-season means little, look at all the players on the Bills who were pre-season studs, but never showed up in the real season. I hope Watkins works out, but he is no savior to me until he proves it on the field in the real season. Players such as Spikes have at least shown they can prove it on the field, at this point Watkins is just a happy fantasy till he has proven it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) I was referring to JaMarcus Russell. 21–4 as a starter in college, 7–18 in the NFL. MVP in the Sugar Bowl. Drafted 1st . Potential means nothing till it is proven on the field in the real season. Even the pre-season means little, look at all the players on the Bills who were pre-season studs, but never showed up in the real season. I hope Watkins works out, but he is no savior to me until he proves it on the field in the real season. Players such as Spikes have at least shown they can prove it on the field, at this point Watkins is just a happy fantasy till he has proven it. FWIW, I hated Jamarcus coming out. He was fat and lazy. He had character issues that turned out to be true but I see your point. Spikes has also shown that he is a liability in pass coverage. He is a 2 down player that will in a likelihood be on the field for less than 1/2 of the defensive snaps. I think that he will improve the run d (as will Schwartz). He is a nice piece IMO. I think that Watkins will change the offense. He will be the focal point of the defense and open things up for EJ, the other receivers and the running game. He is the first weapon in the passing game that teams have had to game plan for in a long time. College teams pretty much threw in the white towel and just tried to keep him in front of them. He can win on possession downs, down the field and he can put you in favorable down & distance with his run after the catch ability. There hasn't been a receiver on the roster like that since Moulds (TO was past his prime here). While I think that the Bills added a lot of pieces he is the only one that will have a trickle down effect. Edited June 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The most important for this year I think would be Spikes. The most important long term will hopefully be Watkins. I like this assessment. Although Corey Graham has been sounding pretty solid as a 3rd down lb which will help with our 3rd down conversion rate (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Cyrus Kouandjio. The more time EJ has in the pocket, the better he will be (obviously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Coaches? Really? Naw, I guess I can see that....l but I will go with a six-way tie..... Getting six or seven new starters as upgrades is as big of a change as I can think of after just one season on a team that has talent. Chris Williams at left guard. Kwan-Joe at right OT. Sammy at wide-out. Mike Williams at wide-out. On O... On D.... Spikes at MLB - this addition is huge. Corey Graham - big nickel-back and first CB off the bench. He will play as much as he can stand when combined with special teams. And Keith Rivers at SLB. I'm a little skeptikal about Rivers but half of that is a belief in Bradham going to a simpler defense and entering his third year. Still a great signing because he can take on blockers, play special teams and provide much needed depth. And a tip of the hat to Anthony Dixon. Can't wait to see him play RB in a Bills uni and captain our special teams. Can't wait to see him come in on a third and one! Ladies and Gentlemen, after you count last season's late season additions like Moeaki, the rest of the draft picks and the undrafteds.....Hopefully, Hairston's also a key add. We are looking at about 25 -30% change for the better at the key roster players..... Now that we have qualty depth at RB and more importantly, Manuel is entering his second season (along with the 3 other QBs) and you have a playoff team and a team with some depth (which is the same thing kinda). Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 It would be interesting to see this in a poll format, because there are about ten legitimate options to choose from: Schwartz (DC) Downing (QB coach) Hostler (O assistant) Watkins (WR) Williams (WR) Spikes (LB) Kuoandjio (RT) Williams (LG) Graham (DB/ST) Dixon (RB/ST) you forgot two Pajac and R. Moore. But its a damned fine list really Spikes has turned me on my head and i now consider him a fantastic aquisition No one listed Bryce Brown ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spiller was gifted but he did not have Watkins build or production coming out. Spiller is an explosive play maker but not the complete game that Sammy brings with him. Not exactly. Spiller's production was actually significantly higher coming out. Check the stats. Watkin's production was very impressive but Spiller was off the charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Not exactly. Spiller's production was actually significantly higher coming out. Check the stats. Watkin's production was very impressive but Spiller was off the charts. The stats aren't all that close actually. Spiller was explosive with 5.9 YPC over his career but he only had 1 season over 1,000 yards (1200). He shared time with James Davis in the backfield. Watkins had 2 seasons over 1,000 yards (1 at over 1200 & 1 over 1400). In addition, he was 1st team All-American in 2 of his 3 seasons. Last year he had 101 catches, 1464 yards and 12 TDs. His stats actually dwarf those of AJ Green and Julio Jones coming out. I love Spiller as a weapon. I am not bad mouthing him in any sense. He is a special player with a special skillset. His game is just not as complete as Watkins IMO. Edited June 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The stats aren't all that close actually. Spiller was explosive with 5.9 YPC over his career but he only had 1 season over 1,000 yards (1200). He shared time with James Davis in the backfield. Watkins had 2 seasons over 1,000 yards (1 at over 1200 & 1 over 1400). In addition, he was 1st team All-American in 2 of his 3 seasons. Last year he had 101 catches, 1464 yards and 12 TDs. His stats actually dwarf those of AJ Green and Julio Jones coming out. I love Spiller as a weapon. I am not bad mouthing him in any sense. He is a special player with a special skillset. His game is jut not as complete as Watkins IMO. Spiller had nearly 6000 all purpose yards from 2006 - 2009 at Clemson. I would not say not as complete, however these guys are completely different athletes. Spiller is more of a running back while Watkins is a very special receiving talent. Both are shifty but Watkins looks more durable. I am excited about Watkins too. I just wanted you to realize that Spiller is Clemson's all time leader in all purpose yards. That, in it's own right is pretty impressive. BTW, Watkins is second in Clemson history but trails by over 1000 all purpose yds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thud Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spikes for sure. If he can help us shut down the run we should be rock solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Spikes for sure. If he can help us shut down the run we should be rock solid. He can also bat passes down , as in more than once , i hear : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Spiller had nearly 6000 all purpose yards from 2006 - 2009 at Clemson. I would not say not as complete, however these guys are completely different athletes. Spiller is more of a running back while Watkins is a very special receiving talent. Both are shifty but Watkins looks more durable. I am excited about Watkins too. I just wanted you to realize that Spiller is Clemson's all time leader in all purpose yards. That, in it's own right is pretty impressive. BTW, Watkins is second in Clemson history but trails by over 1000 all purpose yds. A RB that played 4 years will always have more yards than a WR that played 3 years. I love both players. I totally agree that their skill sets are different. Spiller to me is Reggie Bush and that is a good thing. He can score from anywhere on the field on the ground, return and through the air. He can win games by himself. I just don't think that he will ever be a player that dominates week in and week out. Watkins to me can be that in a manner that someone like Demaryius Thomas has proven to be. It is very rare for that guy to have an off week. Each player will have equal highs (dominant) but I think that Watkins lows will not be as low as CJ's lows. Edited June 8, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) Coaches? Really? Naw, I guess I can see that....l but I will go with a six-way tie..... Getting six or seven new starters as upgrades is as big of a change as I can think of after just one season on a team that has talent. Chris Williams at left guard. Kwan-Joe at right OT. Sammy at wide-out. Mike Williams at wide-out. On O... On D.... Spikes at MLB - this addition is huge. Corey Graham - big nickel-back and first CB off the bench. He will play as much as he can stand when combined with special teams. And Keith Rivers at SLB. I'm a little skeptikal about Rivers but half of that is a belief in Bradham going to a simpler defense and entering his third year. Still a great signing because he can take on blockers, play special teams and provide much needed depth. And a tip of the hat to Anthony Dixon. Can't wait to see him play RB in a Bills uni and captain our special teams. Can't wait to see him come in on a third and one! Ladies and Gentlemen, after you count last season's late season additions like Moeaki, the rest of the draft picks and the undrafteds.....Hopefully, Hairston's also a key add. We are looking at about 25 -30% change for the better at the key roster players..... Now that we have qualty depth at RB and more importantly, Manuel is entering his second season (along with the 3 other QBs) and you have a playoff team and a team with some depth (which is the same thing kinda). Go Bills! You too forgot Bryce Brown. Likely he will be a key backup this year and more so in the future. Aside from that, great post. You should post more often. Edited June 8, 2014 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 When I read the title, I immediately thought of Schwartz. Reading the posts, I'm going to cheat. Coaching staff: Schwartz Offense: Watkins Defense: spikes ST: graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybrew1 Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I didn't really forget him as much as didn't get around to him.... I think I follow the Bills too much in fact. - I almost didn't include Rivers either.... I think the other 6 are a notch above Brown and Rivers.... Both good adds at positions of need though. We needed another back for 3 years imho....Freddy and CJ are part-time (or should be) and injury prone. I 've been calling to replace Tashard Choice since we signed him. Get a back that can make a play like Bryce..... Young too, a prospect! I'm a little worried about our intangible risk taking, but as a prospect, how could he be better? Thanks for the complement BTW, that was kind. It's finally, really, I think, gunna be a good year for us. I am excited even for training camp etc. i think our biggest weakness is D-line depth (assuming Whaley and co. are correct about our QB e v a l.) Last year, the one guy on D who couldn't get hurt was Gilmore (and, of course, he did) this year it has to be Jerry Hughes. I think He is the only guy on the team who can beat a starting NFL LOT with any type of consistency.... I hope we either develop a guy or get a vet pass rusher by sept. I wouldn't mind a giant DT either; a tough guy. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 A new owner. Trumps (no pun intended) any other new face in the franchise. Players mean nothing if the team is moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 We recently had another former head coach as defensive coordinator. How did that work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Gotta go with 1) Watkins, 2) Spikes, 3) Cyrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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