Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Are you kidding? Those guys who let you park on their lawn make a killing during the season! Killing? Maybe for a larger yard you're getting your property tax in cash. If you want a stadium to help develop an area it MUST generate traffic more than 8 times a year... Well 10 of course this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Putting a stadium anywhere but downtown, or maybe...MAYBE...Niagara Falls is a waste. Stadiums do not attract development by themselves. Proof? Look at RWS. 40 years and what have you got in the way of economic development? They made the same mistake when they built the arena. Larry Quinn touted it would be a magnet for development. It took around 18 years for anything to get going and much of it happened because Terry "Warbucks" wrote the check. Imagine if they had built the arena at Chippawa & Genesee like was originally proposed? Sure, Chippawa St. is jumping anyway, but imagine what dropping 18,000+ people 50 times a year would add? Instead they built it in a forgotten end of town with nothing but parking lots and holes in the ground around it for over a decade. Don't overthink this. Put it downtown by the FNC, Canalside, and Casino. PTR Agreed was just up there a couple of weeks back & there is plenty of land to the north with a great view of the water front with a ton of abandon buildings . If put there it would complete another attraction for the down town area & could bring more growth as far as hotels & such ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 My rank order choices. 1. NF 2. Downtown 3. Tear down Bethlehem Steel on the water. Same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I love the idea but who would pay for the cleanup of the old Beth Steel site? It's a good idea tho. If they are going to built it on the waterfront there is plenty of space in Downtown Buffalo for them to build it and they would not have to clean up a major toxic dump to do so. Adding a brand new stadium next to a already rebuilding harborside area would be a better and cheaper option . how about this. The state donates the land to the new owner given they pay for the cleanup. Seems like a trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) how about this. The state donates the land to the new owner given they pay for the cleanup. Seems like a trade off. Would you take a house on Love Canal if it was donated to you? Edited June 3, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I'm a Lackawanna native, and as much as I would love to see the stadium sited in on the waterfront there, it will never happen. The cost to remove the toxic materials in those brownfields would be beyond the scope of any ownership group. I believe that the site is already on the Federal remediation list, but there are places that are far, far worse. I used to work for a company that built remediation equipment and one of the sites we had the contract for supplying the ground water remediation equipment for is the current location of both the PNC arena (home of the Carolina Hurricanes & NC State basketball) and Carter-Finley football stadium (NC State football). The property they built the arena & stadium on is the old NC State University's landfill. They used to dump the leftover chemicals from their labs, animal test subjects, basically everything from the university (this was from the 60's to the 80's, environmental concerns weren't a consideration). If you drive on the road between the two stadiums, the steel building at the end (right next to the football practice field) is the building containing the treatment system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodbuster Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 While I don't think this stadium site is a bad idea... I'M SO SICK OF PETITIONS. Every little issue that comes up goes straight to change.org. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 3, 2014 Author Share Posted June 3, 2014 While I don't think this stadium site is a bad idea... I'M SO SICK OF PETITIONS. Every little issue that comes up goes straight to change.org. You should make one proposing the end of petitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 Would you take a house on Love Canal if it was donated to you? we'll. it's not that bad there. And at the cost of tens of millions, the entire site could be completely torn up and be made suitable. And to answer yiur question, if yiur giving me land, I don't care where it is, I'll take it. If it's free of course. That doesn't mean I have to live there. I already own 2 houses as it is. You should make one proposing the end of petitions. yiu seriously had me LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivermont Mike Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 (edited) how about this. The state donates the land to the new owner given they pay for the cleanup. Seems like a trade off. Here's the rundown on the Lackawanna site, including what is in the ground, how some of it has been cleared, etc. It would be interesting to find out what the cost of cleaning up the rest of the 1,100 acres of former steel plant property would be. There has been more done there than I thought, but there's still some nasty stuff in the ground. Link to the Lackawanna site page. Edited June 3, 2014 by Rivermont Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Here's the rundown on the Lackawanna site, including what is in the ground, how some of it has been cleared, etc. It would be interesting to find out what the cost of cleaning up the rest of the 1,100 acres of former steel plant property would be. There has been more done there than I thought, but there's still some nasty stuff in the ground. Link to the Lackawanna site page. yiu might as well have sent me some brail. I don't even know what I'm looking at. I have no idea what the cost would he to clean up the site but I'd imagine in the tens of millions would take care of it. With that said, for a new owner to pay the tens of millions, or hell, make it 100 million, it's still probably cheaper than purchasing all the land and demo of buildings downtown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 we'll. it's not that bad there. And at the cost of tens of millions, the entire site could be completely torn up and be made suitable. And to answer yiur question, if yiur giving me land, I don't care where it is, I'll take it. If it's free of course. That doesn't mean I have to live there. I already own 2 houses as it is. yiu seriously had me LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Are you kidding? Those guys who let you park on their lawn make a killing during the season! Really? I'm interested in making a killing parking cars. Do you know any one selling land so I won't have to work anymore? I need advice on starting a parking business. How much does, restrooms, insurance, trash removal, yearly maintence (gravel fill, grass cutting, snow removal), property taxes etc. cost as a percentage per dollar income come out to be? I think also most lots include 8.75% sales tax in their prices. Thank You in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 The new niners fields was built on an old landfill that was converted to a golf course and now a stadium. Lakawana is a good sight given the lake however cleaning up that toxic mess may be something that could cost so much no one would build there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Really? I'm interested in making a killing parking cars. Do you know any one selling land so I won't have to work anymore? I need advice on starting a parking business. How much does, restrooms, insurance, trash removal, yearly maintence (gravel fill, grass cutting, snow removal), property taxes etc. cost as a percentage per dollar income come out to be? I think also most lots include 8.75% sales tax in their prices. Thank You in advance. you won't hear me complaining. Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 I'm a Lackawanna native, and as much as I would love to see the stadium sited in on the waterfront there, it will never happen. The cost to remove the toxic materials in those brownfields would be beyond the scope of any ownership group. I believe that the site is already on the Federal remediation list, but there are places that are far, far worse. I got to agree with this sentiment. My friend used to be in the Army Core of Engineers & he told me one time that a big part of thereason that area has never been built up is that they have no idea what is in the ground after they dig it up & they are scared as hell to find out. Really? I'm interested in making a killing parking cars. Do you know any one selling land so I won't have to work anymore? I need advice on starting a parking business. How much does, restrooms, insurance, trash removal, yearly maintence (gravel fill, grass cutting, snow removal), property taxes etc. cost as a percentage per dollar income come out to be? I think also most lots include 8.75% sales tax in their prices. Thank You in advance. I dpn't know the specifics of any of that but in KD's defense you must be making some money & it must be a nice chunk of change & worth it to offer up your property as a parking lot year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Killing? Maybe for a larger yard you're getting your property tax in cash. If you want a stadium to help develop an area it MUST generate traffic more than 8 times a year... Well 10 of course this year... Really? I'm interested in making a killing parking cars. Do you know any one selling land so I won't have to work anymore? I need advice on starting a parking business. How much does, restrooms, insurance, trash removal, yearly maintence (gravel fill, grass cutting, snow removal), property taxes etc. cost as a percentage per dollar income come out to be? I think also most lots include 8.75% sales tax in their prices. Thank You in advance. Um....I was kidding fellas. Parking cars isn't quiet the scale of economic development PTR was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Isn`t it a Toxic wasteland ? Was when I left. Pretty much Lackawanna was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeromeme Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Since the other board was closed, I thought I post the new pictures here. I want to say thanks to all here and the moderators for giving me a chance to share. Please consider signing petition here https://www.change.o...nly-right-place The best choice for all of Western New York. Bethlehem Waterfront Park * Change Western New York's image forever from the rust belt to a green belt, national showcase. * Create 1200 acres of usable waterfront, two miles wide and a mile deep of uninterrupted land with plenty of green space projects and parking. * Provide a domed stadium (retractable roof) beside a large Outer Harbor, with an impressive front plaza and boardwalk overlooking the harbor (600 to 1,000 boat slips). Elevated enclosed walkways connecting domed stadium, Buffalo Bills office, high rise hotels and condos. * Offer opportunities for other attractions such as a splash lagoon, (possible museums/sports theme attractions), Woodlawn beach extension (total two mile beach), outdoor youth athletic areas (football, baseball and soccer), boat ramps, 10,000 trees, 200 to 400 RV/camper sites, amphitheater/elevated patios overlooking the beach with sunset views, picnic shelters, wildlife/bird nursery, art area (think Artpark), garden area (close to Botanical Gardens), restaurant and shopping district on Ridge Road and old Route Five Boulevard. * The land has multiple six main existing access roads. A seventh fast track thruway connector (quick access to waterfront for thruway drivers, attracts visitors) can be built on an abandon 2.3 miles railway to link up with Route Five and Waterfront with no tolls. Fast track Route Five, with no stop lights. These will enhance and maximize existing traffic flow for the City of Buffalo rush hour, park and events. * The domed stadium would be enough away from the immediate shoreline to protect tens of thousands of tailgating Bills fans from the weather. Take advantage of the temperature of the air will be ten degrees warming from the lake retaining the summer heat in the later season. * Highlight the City of Buffalo’s numerous hotels, restaurants, shops and waterfront by connecting the light rail transit system out and along the waterfront to the park. * A natural wonder showcase for 80,000 fans and the NATIONAL AWARENESS of millions of viewers to see on TV multiple times a year, attract the SUPER BOWL. * Western New York offering a vast multiple use and family friendly atmosphere all along the waterfront. * The greatest of youth plans in miles of waterfront natural beauty, which re-energizes souls and spirits. * Create tens of thousands of jobs I sense there are insights from ancient history, a people freed from bondage of four hundred years. They could have gone into their promise land but their conditioning from being in bondage cause them to turn away, saying there were giants in the land. They wandered aimlessly in disbelief for forty years in the wilderness. Only when the older generation died off, the younger generation not afraid, courageously entered the promise land and overcame the obstacles. When the Bethlehem Steel plant closed in 1983 (31 years ago), Lackawanna citizens doubted saying to themselves there were as if giants in the land in the many large empty buildings, it is to polluted, and there is no money, became wandering aimlessly. Around the year 1900 there were also a handful of people in power of then the town of Seneca (before separated into Lackawanna) chosen love of money over a serene waterfront. An unfinished painting with an already backdrop of a long sand beach where children played alongside their mothers, sunsets and the lake teamed with blue pike, walleye, perch, and bass. Ready for good stewards, as if with the delicate brush stokes of an artist to paint in a large inner harbor of commercial boats, sail boats, fishing boats, a large waterfront park, a main street filled with shops, parents, children smiling, and tourism. Money recirculated back into the economy instead of being taken to far away serene places never to return. Painted in relatively clean industry in designated areas away from the waterfront. A place to live, work and play. Instead a handful of people in power chosen to paint in a wall of darkness and pollution. Painted in large darken buildings some containing labyrinths of flowing fire, large smoke stacks discharged large billowing smoke columns blocking the sunlight, fouling the air with fine orange colored particles that hanged in the air and drifted down into every little crevice and onto clothes hanged out to dry. A gaseous noxious sulfur smell permeating the area and the night sky would instantaneously become orange as on fire. Painted in polluted water killed the fish and parts of the lake. Painted in crooked politicians, rows of saloons, brothels and a City Hall that looks like a plastic orange milk crate held up on sticks. A city on the great lakes where its citizens are completely walled off of its two miles of waterfront shore for a hundred years. Abraham Lincoln had said: “A house divided against itself can't stand ........... I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.” It should be ask, can the waterfront in it's present state endure with industry side by side clean waterfront tourism in the city of Buffalo for long? An example of our house divided is the destruction of the Bethlehem Steel Administration Building https://www.facebook...46390728721646/ . This could of been easily saved for a tourist destination on the waterfont of Lackawanna. Instead outside politicians became mysteriously silent over night as if bowed down to the steel plant legacy mentality of industry on the waterfront. Twenty years ago Lackawanna citizens, including myself, barely fended off (even by way of death threats) a tire burning plant and medical waste burning faculty to be built on Lackawanna’s waterfront. If not for this victory, there would be smokestacks on Lackawanna’s waterfront today with their exhaust pollution drifting over Buffalo’s Canalside. Much of Buffalo’s waterfront resurgence, revitalization, beautification and saving of the old buildings would have perhaps never solidified the way it has as of late. Today industry is ramping up again on Lackawanna's waterfront, where more Lackawanna citizens will be economically yoked to the heavy industry on the waterfront. What will happen next time when another polluting industry will offer Lackawanna a deal too good to be true, easy fast money? Will you trust Lackawanna politicians when they see dollars signs in their dreams? Will there be enough citizens not yoked to the growing industry foot print on the waterfront to stop them, next time? I don't expect the same degree of the steel plant pollution, but it will be another black mark on Western New York’s waterfront. Where again Western New York's clean waterfront image will lose out and jeopardize Buffalo’s resurgence. If you're going to begin a waterfront beautification and revitalization, you must go all the way, and carry it to all parts before it is too late. (The mayor on July 12, 2013 said during his conversation with a citizen, there is a company form India interesting in moving to Lackawanna's waterfront, three times as big as the recent large business moved to the waterfront.) What happens on Lackawanna's waterfront, does not stay on Lackawanna's waterfront, reflects an image and affects all citizens in W.N.Y., New York State and the U.S.A. Buffalo is beginning to prosper, 1.7 billion dollars is being invested in beautifying their waterfront, new buildings throughout the city, and restoring their architectural rich designed buildings. Will Lackawanna ever learn the word diversify, clean light industry currently on Lackawanna's waterfront can be relocated with state and federal grants inland? Western New York's image will only truly change completely if the 1200 acres of the waterfront of Lackawanna is unclogged with “we care attitudes”, “hone to beautification”, and remove the “pollution build up”, will cause the economy of W.N.Y. to have its original full power intended, will speed ahead, be on a par with other great waterfront areas across the nation, gaining national recognition, attracting people, fueling its economic engine. The Buffalo Bills dome stadium can be the catalyst to kick start the two remaining cylinders of W.N.Y. economic engine. The raw economic power will ignite the greatest private, State, and Federal investment revitalization and beautification of Western New York's waterfront. A Western New York's waterfront complete makeover, in the shortest time horizon to be enjoyed, bring prosperity and be appreciated by all a place to live, work and play. The City of Buffalo's waterfront and the City of Lackawanna's waterfront are forever connected, each has its own particular strengths. One without the other, can never attain their fullness of stature. The strength of Lackawanna's waterfront reclaimed, cleaned up and beautified will have a multifaceted natural appeal. Combined them will complement each another; will uplift each other to the awareness of the nation, for attracting a super bowl and on to the global stage the Olympics. Add a new six lane Peace Horizons Bridge could be a tourist destination to draw numerous tourist of the 22,000,000 tourist that visit the falls each year. Only a half an hour drive from the falls to the Buffalo area (bring tourist dollars). Western New York shores ought to be lifted up as bright shinning stars, where others in the world will take notice. Citybration presented Peace Horizons Bridge And Bethlehem Waterfront Park design, at Canal Side Buffalo New York for one day. People signed the petitions, 184 signatures for Peace Horizons Bridge and over 100 signatures for the Bethlehem Waterfront Park https://www.flickr.c...in/photostream/ Steven Appler AMHERST, NY 6 days ago I agree that is time to begin wrestling this mess that Bethlehem left, cleaning it up and putting that amazing area back into the tax roll. Andrew Jansa OMAHA, NE 6 days ago I am from Orchard Park, I still come back all the time and go to games. This is important to me because not only is it a fantastic spot, getting rid of one of the scars of the city and putting something else there that would remind us of where the city use to come from in the Steel days would be a great way to honor past and present. sally zak EDEN, NY 11 days ago Season ticket holders and if you have to move it then Lackawanna has more than enough room along the waterfront plus it's an eye sore now. Let's make the most of that empty land. Great idea and easy access for all. Francine Warner GRAND ISLAND, NY 12 days ago I see this as the perfect place for a domed stadium due to the location. Easy to get to from all directions, north from Canada and all of the south towns. Close to Buffalo for out of town visitors to stay over at one of Buffalo's many hotels. Mary Gallivan BUFFALO, NY 12 days ago I believe that the message is true! We failed at our last attempt. Let's not allow Lackawanna fall to the wayside. I'm from the north side of the city and I can totally see the wisdom of this argument. Clarence Korabek VIRGINIA BEACH, VA 13 days ago It will beautify the waterfront which should have been done in the 80's. It will also help to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo. Peter Kujawski KENMORE, NY 6 days ago While not only providing a permanent and contemporary home to the Buffalo Bills, this plan would turn a long dominant and polluted site into a local, national and international destination. I grew up in Buffalo and the Bethlehem Steel site always conjured images for a long gone era. We can reclaim part of that hay day and help rejuvenate the city and surrounding neighborhoods. Tracy Snyder CANANDAIGUA, NY 6 days ago The Buffalo Bills are an integral part of the Western New York Community and need to be recognized and part of a larger long lasting project here. Local, national, and even international recognition of a project of this magnitude would benefit the region and be a positive move in the right direction for improving the economic and cultural climate. These are critical times and losing the Bills is not an option. This plan is a forward thinking and practical way to ensuring the growth of the region and the future of a long lasting and deeply engrained tradition. Please consider signing petition here https://www.change.o...nly-right-place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FistingBot Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 Ugh. A petition on change.org for a team that doesn't even have an owner yet? Make this nonsense stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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