Sammy Watkins Vs. Ohio State

[buffalover4life]

easy guy. I've already said that I like the kid. Just that the OPs video didn't do him justice. Not sure why everyone is all goo-goo, ga-ga over it. It didn't show me much for being a highlight video of a WR

 

 

It is a single game, you're being a troll.

[ko12010]

could be.

 

And fwiw, I wasn't knocking on all his screens. I was simply stating that the video in the OP wasn't so spectacular. That there's really nothing that special about a couple screens.

 

But I will give credit where it is due. The TDs are great. And even the screens aren't bad at all. He shows great ability to fight for yards.

 

Just hoped I'd seen more in what many say is his best game.

I think it actually is a special ability to turn screens into big gains consistently. Screens are far easier for QB's to execute, being such short passes, so it's a good quality for a receiver to have.

[mrags]

His body control and hands remind me of Fitzgerald too.

fitz is the best comparison IMO.

 

 

 

It is a single game, you're being a troll.

a troll with over 8,000 posts. Got it.

 

I think it actually is a special ability to turn screens into big gains consistently. Screens are far easier for QB's to execute, being such short passes, so it's a good quality for a receiver to have.

i never said they weren't nice plays. Just that everyone says that the OSU game was his best ever in college. 8 screen plays does nothing for me. Just my opinion.

[YoloinOhio]

I think this decription of Sammy is very accurate:

http://www.cbssports...3/sammy-watkins

Every fan of the sport knows that there is a difference between timed speed and football speed. Football is rarely a game of straight-lines, making fluidity and general athleticism much more critical than just a 40-yard dash time. In much this same way, some receivers possess a natural ability to pluck the ball, tuck it away and accelerate in one smooth motion that makes them even greater than the sum of their parts.

Sammy Watkins is one such receiver.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Beerball

[mrags]

 

 

May I suggest reading this? First game of last season, 78 yard TD by Thomas, off of a WR screen.

 

Edit: Also this article talks specifically about how much he used to run the screen in Indy and would be doing the same in Denver.

 

55TDs, 5 were screens, 1 was a shovel pass, 1 was a short pass on a blitz pickup, 2 were wheel routes by the RBs.

 

http://youtu.be/O7s5wnKEVA8

 

 

 

1 out of 49 here. 1. One. Uno. And it wasn't a screen either. It was a shovel pass.

 

 

Over 100 TDs and 5% were screens. 2 different teams. Years apart. Different coaches. Different players. Only thing that was the same was Peyton throwing the ball. Say whatever you want. Believe whatever articles you'd like. But to say that screen passes are what male him successful is beyond a stretch. I just showed you almost a quarter of every Manning TD and there weren't a lot.

[Wayne Cubed]

55TDs, 5 were screens, 1 was a shovel pass, 1 was a short pass on a blitz pickup, 2 were wheel routes by the RBs.

 

1 out of 49 here. 1. One. Uno. And it wasn't a screen either. It was a shovel pass.

 

Over 100 TDs and 5% were screens. 2 different teams. Years apart. Different coaches. Different players. Only thing that was the same was Peyton throwing the ball. Say whatever you want. Believe whatever articles you'd like. But to say that screen passes are what male him successful is beyond a stretch. I just showed you almost a quarter of every Manning TD and there weren't a lot.

 

Wow, you continue to amaze me, so now we are only counting TD's as passes thrown, thats interesting... All this you've dog up, prove absolutely squat, except maybe that his TD passes aren't screens. So what does that mean? Well could mean a lot of things, like for example when the field get's compressed or as you get closer to the goal line defenses get compressed. There's more guys near the line of scrimmage. You know what that means? Screens are less effective. How many of his TD throw's were near the goal line where a screen wouldn't be an option?

 

Second, you used an absolute tiny sample size. His TD passes. Peyton threw 659 passes last year. For his career he's thrown 64,964 and you choose 100 passes to make your case. Brilliant.

 

And third, I said Peyton made his career on dink and dunk.

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have made their careers on dink and dunk.

 

I've never said he made his career on screens, you said:

i don't think I've seen Payton Manning throw as many screens behind the LOS in his entire career as there are in that video.

 

To which I pointed to you one WR screen, last season, that went for a TD. And then I pointed to articles showing how actually WR screens were very important to Peytons game.

 

In fact here's an interesting stat for you. Peyton threw 575 yards last year for screens, now that's only 10% of his total yards thrown. But, of that 575 yards guess how many were from WR screens? 406 yards. Or almost 71%. Which by the way, lead the league.

 

Anyways, I'll go back to "not knowing football."

 

EDIT: Oh and BTW, EJ Manuel finished last in the league in screen yards thrown.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[zevo]

 

 

Wow, you continue to amaze me, so now we are only counting TD's as passes thrown, thats interesting... All this you've dog up, prove absolutely squat, except maybe that his TD passes aren't screens. So what does that mean? Well could mean a lot of things, like for example when the field get's compressed or as you get closer to the goal line defenses get compressed. There's more guys near the line of scrimmage. You know what that means? Screens are less effective. How many of his TD throw's were near the goal line where a screen wouldn't be an option?

 

Second, you used an absolute tiny sample size. His TD passes. Peyton threw 659 passes last year. For his career he's thrown 64,964 and you choose 100 passes to make your case. Brilliant.

 

And third, I said Peyton made his career on dink and dunk.

 

 

I've never said he made his career on screens, you said:

 

 

To which I pointed to you one WR screen, last season, that went for a TD. And then I pointed to articles showing how actually WR screens were very important to Peytons game.

 

In fact here's an interesting stat for you. Peyton threw 575 yards last year for screens, now that's only 10% of his total yards thrown. But, of that 575 yards guess how many were from WR screens? 406 yards. Or almost 71%. Which by the way, lead the league.

 

Anyways, I'll go back to "not knowing football."

 

EDIT: Oh and BTW, EJ Manuel finished last in the league in screen yards thrown.

 

That's because we never called screens for whatever reason

[mrags]

 

 

Wow, you continue to amaze me, so now we are only counting TD's as passes thrown, thats interesting... All this you've dog up, prove absolutely squat, except maybe that his TD passes aren't screens. So what does that mean? Well could mean a lot of things, like for example when the field get's compressed or as you get closer to the goal line defenses get compressed. There's more guys near the line of scrimmage. You know what that means? Screens are less effective. How many of his TD throw's were near the goal line where a screen wouldn't be an option?

 

Second, you used an absolute tiny sample size. His TD passes. Peyton threw 659 passes last year. For his career he's thrown 64,964 and you choose 100 passes to make your case. Brilliant.

 

And third, I said Peyton made his career on dink and dunk.

 

 

I've never said he made his career on screens, you said:

 

 

To which I pointed to you one WR screen, last season, that went for a TD. And then I pointed to articles showing how actually WR screens were very important to Peytons game.

 

In fact here's an interesting stat for you. Peyton threw 575 yards last year for screens, now that's only 10% of his total yards thrown. But, of that 575 yards guess how many were from WR screens? 406 yards. Or almost 71%. Which by the way, lead the league.

 

Anyways, I'll go back to "not knowing football."

 

EDIT: Oh and BTW, EJ Manuel finished last in the league in screen yards thrown.

try and find his 690+ passes on tape. You won't. The Info I found is a decent sample size of 100+ TDs. Almost 1/4 of his total career TDs. Those TD passes, if you bothered to watch were all over the field. Ranging from 1-99 yards.

 

Saying P-E-Y-T-O-N made his career on dink and dunk is not only a stretch, it's ridiculous. But I'm sore you'll look up his average as well and prove yourself wrong there too.

 

Believe whatever you want. Or whatever you read from some SBnation writer. The fact is, if you go I to a room full of educated football fans. And you make a claim that Peyton made his career off dink and dunk passes, you will be laughed at. Either that or the rooms you walk into are full of uneducated fans much like yourself.

 

And for the record. This is a Sammy Watkins thread. Not a Peyton Manning thread. For the record, I never said Sammy wasn't good in this thread. Just thy the OPs highlights don't do his game justice. But apparently you took that as me attacking Sammy. Then decided to bring Tom Brady and Peyton Manning into it (why??? I have no idea). For the record, I never said anything about EJ in this thread and don't care too. It's a Sammy freaking Watkins thread.

 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

try and find his 690+ passes on tape. You won't. The Info I found is a decent sample size of 100+ TDs. Almost 1/4 of his total career TDs. Those TD passes, if you bothered to watch were all over the field. Ranging from 1-99 yards.

 

Saying P-E-Y-T-O-N made his career on dink and dunk is not only a stretch, it's ridiculous. But I'm sore you'll look up his average as well and prove yourself wrong there too.

 

Believe whatever you want. Or whatever you read from some SBnation writer. The fact is, if you go I to a room full of educated football fans. And you make a claim that Peyton made his career off dink and dunk passes, you will be laughed at. Either that or the rooms you walk into are full of uneducated fans much like yourself.

 

And for the record. This is a Sammy Watkins thread. Not a Peyton Manning thread. For the record, I never said Sammy wasn't good in this thread. Just thy the OPs highlights don't do his game justice. But apparently you took that as me attacking Sammy. Then decided to bring Tom Brady and Peyton Manning into it (why??? I have no idea). For the record, I never said anything about EJ in this thread and don't care too. It's a Sammy freaking Watkins thread.

 

For the record, you came after me. For the record, I realize this is a Sammy Wakins thread, hence my original comment and also I can read. For the record, you decided to comment back on what I wrote. For the record, I don't consider Bucky Brooks some nobody. For the record, I never said that you said Sammy wasn't good, I was simply pointing out that it is possible for a WR to succeed because, surprise surprise a couple of great QB's do pass short passes, like what was in the video. For the record, you decided to throw out the insult.

 

And finally, for the record, I don't hear anyone laughing, in fact one poster agreed with me. But I suppose you'll chalk that up to him not knowing anything about football.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Wayne Cubed

[mrags]

 

 

For the record, you came after me. For the record, I realize this is a Sammy Wakins thread, hence my original comment and also I can read. For the record, you decided to comment back on what I wrote. For the record, I don't consider Bucky Brooks some nobody. For the record, I never said that you said Sammy wasn't good, I was simply pointing out that it is possible for a WR to succeed because, surprise surprise a couple of great QB's do pass short passes, like what was in the video. For the record, you decided to throw out the insult.

 

And finally, for the record, I don't hear anyone laughing, in fact one poster agreed with me. But I suppose you'll chalk that up to him not knowing anything about football.

believe whatever you want guy

[Beerball]

That's how Welker is used (and now Edleman). He is much better after the catch than those guys. He is going to catch slants and turn it up. He will catch bubble screens as well. Mel Kiper said that he is the best player after the catch that he has ever graded!! I think that he has been doing it for 36 years.

 

This guy is not one of the good players that we have drafted (think Gilmore). Watkins is a generational talent. He is as talented a college WR as I have seen (right there with Fitzgerald & Moss).

Slants isn't how he was used at Auburn (based on those two games and everything I've read about him). He ran screens and carried the ball more than he caught the ball downfield. THAT is a recipe for disaster. (and that's what I assumed you were referring to)

[Manther]

Looks like he has a little CJ Spiller in him...A mix of Spiller and Fitzgerald.

We really need him to have more Fitzgerald than Spiller. I BILLieve in Watkins!

[mrags]

Slants isn't how he was used at Auburn (based on those two games and everything I've read about him). He ran screens and carried the ball more than he caught the ball downfield. THAT is a recipe for disaster. (and that's what I assumed you were referring to)

agree

 

 

We really need him to have more Fitzgerald than Spiller. I BILLieve in Watkins!

and agree

[Beerball]

I'm still don't get why fans would be upset that he caught balls at the line of scrimmage and turned them into 10-15 yards. That's moving the ball. That's first downs. Tom Brady and Peyton Manning have made their careers on dink and dunk. I get that everyone love's the big plays but they just don't happen all that often and teams need to take what they are given by the defense. 10 yard cushion from the CB? Ok I'll throw it to my playmaker and trust that he can probably beat that 1 guy maybe he'll beat the safety too.

I love first downs, I don't care how they come about. I do not think that a WR can make his mark in the NFL running screens & sweeps, end arounds etc. The kids game will have to change. Hopefully he's up to it. Like I said upthread...seems to have terrific hands & is a willing blocker.

[smapdi]

I don't know how many times this can be said but the reason Watkins caught so many screens in the Orange Bowl, in which he was the Game's MVP, was because that is what the defense was giving them. He beat up defenses so badly down the field as a freshmen (First team All-American BTW as a True Freshmen... 1 of 4 EVER) that defenses just started to give him a huge cushion so they wouldn't get beat deep. 7-10 yard cushions because they were so terrified by his speed and route running.

 

His coach was on the John Murphy show right after the pick and specifically addressed this issue. They weren't throwing him screens because he couldn't run routes down the field or was somehow limited athletically to just those plays. They were throwing him those screens because he was wide open in a BCS bowl game. Defenses' were just fed up with him beating them down the field that they wanted to make sure they had a safety deep and their CB deep enough so Watkins couldn't just burn by them with his sub 4.40 speed. Hence, the wide open short passes.

 

For everyone whining about this, tell me why you wouldn't throw the ball to a wide open Sammy Watkins?? I don't get it. I have a feeling that some of you would complain if we drafted Jerry Rice (knowing he would turn into Jerry Rice) just for the hell of it. Watkins was the most dangerous WR in college football so of course they are going to feed him the ball in which ever way possible.

 

Watkins consistently turned those 2 yard passes into 15 yard chunks. Those are 1st downs. What more can you ask for from a WR?

[NoSaint]

I don't know how many times this can be said but the reason Watkins caught so many screens in the Orange Bowl, in which he was the Game's MVP, was because that is what the defense was giving them. He beat up defenses so badly down the field as a freshmen (First team All-American BTW as a True Freshmen... 1 of 4 EVER) that defenses just started to give him a huge cushion so they wouldn't get beat deep. 7-10 yard cushions because they were so terrified by his speed and route running.

 

His coach was on the John Murphy show right after the pick and specifically addressed this issue. They weren't throwing him screens because he couldn't run routes down the field or was somehow limited athletically to just those plays. They were throwing him those screens because he was wide open in a BCS bowl game. Defenses' were just fed up with him beating them down the field that they wanted to make sure they had a safety deep and their CB deep enough so Watkins couldn't just burn by them with his sub 4.40 speed. Hence, the wide open short passes.

 

For everyone whining about this, tell me why you wouldn't throw the ball to a wide open Sammy Watkins?? I don't get it. I have a feeling that some of you would complain if we drafted Jerry Rice (knowing he would turn into Jerry Rice) just for the hell of it. Watkins was the most dangerous WR in college football so of course they are going to feed him the ball in which ever way possible.

 

Watkins consistently turned those 2 yard passes into 15 yard chunks. Those are 1st downs. What more can you ask for from a WR?

 

Exactly - he was so dominant down the field that defenses totally changed game plans to account for it so he adjusted and started playing behind the line too... This isn't a guy that has to suddenly learn how to play down field - he's a guy that can make plays EVERYWHERE, so he can take what's given instead of forcing a single dynamic.

 

Most people would call that a major strength.

[smapdi]

 

 

Exactly - he was so dominant down the field that defenses totally changed game plans to account for it so he adjusted and started playing behind the line too... This isn't a guy that has to suddenly learn how to play down field - he's a guy that can make plays EVERYWHERE, so he can take what's given instead of forcing a single dynamic.

 

Most people would call that a major strength.

 

Spot on.

 

If he can do that for the Bills, he was worth the pick. Anytime you can dictate how the defense has to play someone, you have a pretty big advantage.

 

Watkins is good enough that team's are going to have to put their #1 CB on him. That should leave plenty of plays for Mike Williams and Robert Woods.

[chris heff]

I don't know how many times this can be said but the reason Watkins caught so many screens in the Orange Bowl, in which he was the Game's MVP, was because that is what the defense was giving them. He beat up defenses so badly down the field as a freshmen (First team All-American BTW as a True Freshmen... 1 of 4 EVER) that defenses just started to give him a huge cushion so they wouldn't get beat deep. 7-10 yard cushions because they were so terrified by his speed and route running.

 

His coach was on the John Murphy show right after the pick and specifically addressed this issue. They weren't throwing him screens because he couldn't run routes down the field or was somehow limited athletically to just those plays. They were throwing him those screens because he was wide open in a BCS bowl game. Defenses' were just fed up with him beating them down the field that they wanted to make sure they had a safety deep and their CB deep enough so Watkins couldn't just burn by them with his sub 4.40 speed. Hence, the wide open short passes.

 

For everyone whining about this, tell me why you wouldn't throw the ball to a wide open Sammy Watkins?? I don't get it. I have a feeling that some of you would complain if we drafted Jerry Rice (knowing he would turn into Jerry Rice) just for the hell of it. Watkins was the most dangerous WR in college football so of course they are going to feed him the ball in which ever way possible.

 

Watkins consistently turned those 2 yard passes into 15 yard chunks. Those are 1st downs. What more can you ask for from a WR?

To screen or not to screen? That is the question. If a defense is giving you that you do it until they stop you. That's what happened in the Orange Bowl.

 

Remember when Bledsoe couldn't complete the screen? He'd throw it at the receivers feet, just painful.

[YoloinOhio]

To screen or not to screen? That is the question. If a defense is giving you that you do it until they stop you. That's what happened in the Orange Bowl.

 

Remember when Bledsoe couldn't complete the screen? He'd throw it at the receivers feet, just painful.

We don't have to remember too far back to last season, when the Bengals ran screen passes to AJ Green over and over with success for the entire first half because Gilmore was playing with one hand/ a major cushion, and had no chance. Pettine finally adjusted in the 2nd half, but the damage was done. Edited May 21, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[John from Riverside]

I don't know how many times this can be said but the reason Watkins caught so many screens in the Orange Bowl, in which he was the Game's MVP, was because that is what the defense was giving them. He beat up defenses so badly down the field as a freshmen (First team All-American BTW as a True Freshmen... 1 of 4 EVER) that defenses just started to give him a huge cushion so they wouldn't get beat deep. 7-10 yard cushions because they were so terrified by his speed and route running.

 

His coach was on the John Murphy show right after the pick and specifically addressed this issue. They weren't throwing him screens because he couldn't run routes down the field or was somehow limited athletically to just those plays. They were throwing him those screens because he was wide open in a BCS bowl game. Defenses' were just fed up with him beating them down the field that they wanted to make sure they had a safety deep and their CB deep enough so Watkins couldn't just burn by them with his sub 4.40 speed. Hence, the wide open short passes.

 

For everyone whining about this, tell me why you wouldn't throw the ball to a wide open Sammy Watkins?? I don't get it. I have a feeling that some of you would complain if we drafted Jerry Rice (knowing he would turn into Jerry Rice) just for the hell of it. Watkins was the most dangerous WR in college football so of course they are going to feed him the ball in which ever way possible.

 

Watkins consistently turned those 2 yard passes into 15 yard chunks. Those are 1st downs. What more can you ask for from a WR?

 

He need to throw the ball....then go catch the ball he threw to himself.....then score with it on that play....anything else is subpar for bills board members

[NoSaint]

We don't have to remember too far back to last season, when the Bengals ran screen passes to AJ Green over and over with success for the entire first half because Gilmore was playing with one hand/ a major cushion, and had no chance. Pettine finally adjusted in the 2nd half, but the damage was done.

 

yup - all the best offenses have a few things in common.... the ability to be dangerous across wide spaces (sideline to sideline, and LOS to the deep ball) - which creates holes in the defense, because you cant cover that much space. and then the willingness to exploit those soft spots, even if its not the sexy, sportscenter type of highlights. chan did a great job of making that box big horizontally but with fitz and stevie at the top of the depth chart obviously couldnt vertically. hopefully hackett can do more with EJ and Watkins (and wood, williams and goodwin instead of jones, nelson and.... ruvell martin?)

 

that sammy makes makes that box bigger, and can be dangerous all over the field is a GREAT thing.