vorpma Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I am pretty sure that the last few years you are looking at the rebuild. They stopped trying to plug holes with vets like Dockery, Barnett, etc... and tore it down. They drafted their the guy that the believe to be their franchise QB. They also traded up for a guy that is the highest rated skill player in 4 years. They rebuilt their OL & pass rush over the last 3 years as well. I know some people will choose to be negative no matter what but I think that it's pretty clear that the rebuild is almost complete. Hopefully, the results will follow but to act like they haven't been rebuilding is just wrong. I am aware of the rebuild efforts, but bottom line - they failed!! Where's the beef! My point is they have at best slightly above average players - Mario Williams, CJ Spiller, where are the game changers? By January of 2015 this board will be buzzing with speculation on who the next HC/GM will be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I am aware of the rebuild efforts, but bottom line - they failed!! Where's the beef! My point is they have at best slightly above average players - Mario Williams, CJ Spiller, where are the game changers? By January of 2015 this board will be buzzing with speculation on who the next HC/GM will be! Mario Williams is an above average player? Really?!? Rebuilds take time, they are getting there. You don't just play a bunch of young guys and expect 13 wins. They are at the point this year where they are ready to compete for a playoff spot. I think that by next year with the $ that they have they can compete for the conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Mario Williams is an above average player? Really?!? Rebuilds take time, they are getting there. You don't just play a bunch of young guys and expect 13 wins. They are at the point this year where they are ready to compete for a playoff spot. I think that by next year with the $ that they have they can compete for the conference. Rebuilds take time - 14 years?? Thaty's funny, been hearing about rebuilds since 2000 and every off season the same hopeless optimism. Talk to me in November or better yet January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalothruMyVeins Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 This is not a playoff caliber roster until the Bills figure out who is playing QB. As of right now, they are going into the season with the same QB roster they finished the year with, and we know how that played out. If E.J. goes down again, you have Thad Lewis back there who honestly probably played about as well or poorly as E.J This kind of crap is starting to drive me nuts... Just what exactly is the conspiracy, than, Mr. Pro Personnel Director?? If he's so obviously not going to improve, and really will be the same as last year, surely it must be obvious to the MORE PROFESSIONAL TALENT EVALUATORS too, who have decided to hitch their wagons to a "terrible player" in an obvious win-now situation. I BET THEY'RE TRYING TO GET FIRED! I BET THEY DON'T KNOW AS MUCH AS YOU ABOUT THE SITUATION, BECAUSE YOU'VE OBVIOUSLY LEARNED MORE BY WATCHING 40 MINUTES OF PRESS CONFERENCE, A COUPLE HIGHLIGHT REELS, AND A COUPLE GAMES WHEN THEY ONLY GOT TO SPEND ABOUT 2,000 HOURS WITH HIM LAST FALL. I'm sorry to single you out about this, but it's just absurd to think that know more than them about a situation reguarding football. And we can't even think they're just trying for next year and enduring a lesser QB today for potential later. This team has stated over and over and proven it through their actions that they are looking to WIN NOW. So what makes you think they haven't exhausted every possible avenue to improve every position on the roster, evaluated all rookie QBs, and arrived at the position that their best option for a WIN NOW MODE was EJ MANUEL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Rebuilds take time - 14 years?? Thaty's funny, been hearing about rebuilds since 2000 and every off season the same hopeless optimism. Talk to me in November or better yet January. No, a I referenced they tried to plug holes with veterans like Bledsoe, Dockery, Barnett, etc... They just started trying to rebuild when they released Fitzpatrick. The performance in 2000 is really relevant to the team in 2014. I mean it's the same coaches, GM, players, etc... I'd be happy to talk to you in January about the Bills but I hope that you bringing your sunshine outlook to the Pats by then instead. Edited May 17, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeyBomb Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I can not lie. I'd be pretty upset if this coaching staff was fired. The only way I believe they should be fired is if they go below 5-11. And I can't see that happening even if Thad Lewis were to start every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It might be better/smart for the new owner to keep this staff for one more year so that they can recoup and get a good, high draft pick for the one they lost next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It might be better/smart for the new owner to keep this staff for one more year so that they can recoup and get a good, high draft pick for the one they lost next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 No, a I referenced they tried to plug holes with veterans like Bledsoe, Dockery, Barnett, etc... They just started trying to rebuild when they released Fitzpatrick. The performance in 2000 is really relevant to the team in 2014. I mean it's the same coaches, GM, players, etc... I'd be happy to talk to you in January about the Bills but I hope that you bringing your sunshine outlook to the Pats by then instead. Trading for Bledsoe and signing Dockery to the then largest UFA contract to that point wouldn't be what I'd call plugging holes. They were serious attempts at getting the team over the hump. I'm miffed how anyone who expresses some skepticism about the Bills given their track record is somehow negative. I can not lie. I'd be pretty upset if this coaching staff was fired. The only way I believe they should be fired is if they go below 5-11. And I can't see that happening even if Thad Lewis were to start every game. You're also not investing upwards of 1B in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Trading for Bledsoe and signing Dockery to the then largest UFA contract to that point wouldn't be what I'd call plugging holes. They were serious attempts at getting the team over the hump. I'm miffed how anyone who expresses some skepticism about the Bills given their track record is somehow negative. That was the whole point. They weren't trying to rebuild. They were trying to get over the hump. That's the same reason that you would sign a vet like Barnett. He was still a pretty good player when he got here but it was a short term play. The rebuild is recent. Skepticism is one thing and outright negativity is another. If you want to say that they were bad in 2000 so they will be bad in 2014 I'm not buying it. Support the argument with the personnel and coaches that are currently in place. If you think that the team will be bad fine but why? Is it because EJ will struggle? Special Teams cost us a couple of games? The run defense didn't improve? I'm very confident that what happened 13 years ago won't impact their record in 2014. It's a lazy argument that gets played WAY too much on here. Edited May 18, 2014 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryCletus Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Speaking of lazy... I'm going to bed... I need to rebuild my energy so I can get over that hump called Sunday.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) That was the whole point. They weren't trying to rebuild. They were trying to get over the hump. Except they were trying to rebuild during those times. When TD was the GM, he did not want to spend 2-3 years drafting rookies in order to rebuild, He wanted to win ASAP, so he rebuilt the team via free agency. Bledsoe was supposed to have been the next franchise QB. As for Walker and Dockery, those signings were serious attempts to plug holes in the line. Both of them just finished playing out their first NFL contracts. Both of them were expected to be long term solutions. Edited May 18, 2014 by Cynical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Just what the title says. Personally, I think whether they get in the playoffs at 7-9 or 10-6, they stay. 9-7 without playoffs they'll probably be fine. 7-9 or worse with no playoffs and it's over. I think for Marrone, Whaley and Brandon to stay, they will need to go at least 10-6 AND advance in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Trading for Bledsoe and signing Dockery to the then largest UFA contract to that point wouldn't be what I'd call plugging holes. They were serious attempts at getting the team over the hump. I'm miffed how anyone who expresses some skepticism about the Bills given their track record is somehow negative. You're also not investing upwards of 1B in the team. :thumbsup: March through September you are villified for not drinking the Kool Aid and discussing the Bills from a realistic standpoint and being honest. As stated in a previous post, come late November through January this borad will be speculating on needed off season moves to get the Bills into the playoffs. My family owned multiple season tickets from 1960 well into thr 1990's and I have driven cross country to watch the team play. From my standpoint, my loyalty is not in question, but from an honesty perspective, the organization is bad, really bad, and has been for 14 years. Facts not emotion - wishing is fine but you have to come down to earth eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Anything 6-10 or below will kill them, 8-8 might give em another year, anything above 10 wins will be extension time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 Except they were trying to rebuild during those times. When TD was the GM, he did not want to spend 2-3 years drafting rookies in order to rebuild, He wanted to win ASAP, so he rebuilt the team via free agency. Bledsoe was supposed to have been the next franchise QB. As for Walker and Dockery, those signings were serious attempts to plug holes in the line. Both of them just finished playing out their first NFL contracts. Both of them were expected to be long term solutions. That is not s rebuild. They made changes but never tried to rebuild. Not to keep going round and round on this but Bledsoe was done by the time he got to Buffalo. He had 1 good season (really a half of a good season) and cost the team a 1st to acquire. I was in college in Boston at that point and the handful of people that actually cared about the Pats couldn't have cared less that he was gone. Lawyer Milloy, Sam Adams, etc... were never meant to be a part of a rebuild. The Bills were taking a shot. That is what Denver did when they acquired Manning. You don't worry about the long term to try to win one now. It didn't work. That is not the case now at all. They are doing the rebuild the right way. There are only 3 players on the roster over 30. The team was devoid of talent when Buddy got here and he began the rebuild from the bottom up. It is the same philosophy that the Sabres finally adopted this year. Instead of trying to be an 8 seed by constantly plugging holes you start over and take your lumps. If you ever want to be really good you have to go through periods of being really bad. The Bills were always lingering in that 7-9 range and thought that they were close. They made a bunch of moves with that in mind. :thumbsup: March through September you are villified for not drinking the Kool Aid and discussing the Bills from a realistic standpoint and being honest. As stated in a previous post, come late November through January this borad will be speculating on needed off season moves to get the Bills into the playoffs. My family owned multiple season tickets from 1960 well into thr 1990's and I have driven cross country to watch the team play. From my standpoint, my loyalty is not in question, but from an honesty perspective, the organization is bad, really bad, and has been for 14 years. Facts not emotion - wishing is fine but you have to come down to earth eventually. What does being bad previously have to do with 2014? It's a different team with different coaches, players, scouts, GM and opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGNESS Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 4-12 dooms them. 5-11 or better and they are fine. I think they finish 9-7 or better. EJ obviously the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I'm not sure anything dooms this staff. Ownership may not be transferred until a year from now. This staff this get three years minimum. Honestly I think they will get more than that This is a playoff caliber roster. This staff is also much better than people want to give it credit for Agreed. What would sink them is another 6-10 season or worse. They have to show progress. I believe they are better now in the staff and definitely the talent. We are playing some very good teams this year so it won't be easy. Now the flip side if we beat some of those top teams like the Broncos, Packers, Bears, KC, etc. and finish a 10-6 season, these guys will get extended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I also believe they should have more time. I'm sick of cleaning house so quickly, and what is the point is Marrone banked the farm on EJ. You just hope he progresses and I think he will. What's more likely is if Marrone has a bad year, he fires special teams or OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 That is not s rebuild. They made changes but never tried to rebuild. Not to keep going round and round on this but Bledsoe was done by the time he got to Buffalo. He had 1 good season (really a half of a good season) and cost the team a 1st to acquire. I was in college in Boston at that point and the handful of people that actually cared about the Pats couldn't have cared less that he was gone. Lawyer Milloy, Sam Adams, etc... were never meant to be a part of a rebuild. The Bills were taking a shot. That is what Denver did when they acquired Manning. You don't worry about the long term to try to win one now. It didn't work. That is not the case now at all. They are doing the rebuild the right way. There are only 3 players on the roster over 30. The team was devoid of talent when Buddy got here and he began the rebuild from the bottom up. It is the same philosophy that the Sabres finally adopted this year. Instead of trying to be an 8 seed by constantly plugging holes you start over and take your lumps. If you ever want to be really good you have to go through periods of being really bad. The Bills were always lingering in that 7-9 range and thought that they were close. They made a bunch of moves with that in mind. What does being bad previously have to do with 2014? It's a different team with different coaches, players, scouts, GM and opponents. We will see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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