Bon Jovi: 1 Billion

[KDIGGZ]

If you are a BUFFALO Bills fan then you will not root for the Toronto Bills (or whatever they change the name to). Did people in Cleveland root for the Ravens? No. Anyone rooting for a Bon Jovi owned Bills team is a traitor

[CodeMonkey]

If you are a BUFFALO Bills fan then you will not root for the Toronto Bills (or whatever they change the name to). Did people in Cleveland root for the Ravens? No. Anyone rooting for a Bon Jovi owned Bills team is a traitor

I have several relatives in the Cleveland area and after they got another team they all went so far as to say as long as the Browns beat the Ravens they could lose out the rest of the season and they would be forgiven.

 

They were also proud of the fact that the Cleveland police apparently told Modell they could not guarantee his safety if he went to Cleveland for the games.

Edited April 21, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[thr_wedge]

And then the residents of Baltimore still hate the Colts. With a passion. My BIL and his father still complain about Indy, won't call 'em the Colts, and the Ravens have 2 SB wins in the time that Indy has 1. So no, I won't be rooting for the Toronto Benedict Arnolds or whatever they are called.

[BigPappy]

Really? So far the value is only about 830 mill (waiting for new value to be determined). So if they are worth say 850 Mill and someone offers 1 Billion and that can't get it done, the I cant see them getting sold.

Forbes valued the Bills at 870 million this past August so 1 billion should be a reasonably strong bid I would think (15% over valuation).

The estimated value of a product has nothing and I mean nothing to do with how much that product sells for. Value is placed by the buyer, and how badly he wants to buy the product. Especially in a unique market like the NFL. The Browns sold for 1 Billion dollars! The BROWNS! Granted we feed off the same bottom they do currently, but I thing we are in better shape financially, and well as our front office. My point is, This team will not sell for anything near its "Estimated Value". Several have stated the number 1.25 Billion, and in my humble opinion, it's probably in the ball park of close.

As far as the OP's initial comments, while I believe that your friend told you this information and he believes it to be true, it's more likely that the Bon Jovi financial team is putting out dis information just to get an idea as to where other potential bidders are in their bids, and your friend has been fed the information for this purpose. if they can get any of them to bite and go public with what they are going to start their bidding at all the better for them.

 

BigPappy

Edited April 21, 2014 by BigPappy

[CodeMonkey]

The estimated value of a product has nothing and I mean nothing to do with how much that product sells for. Value is placed by the buyer, and how badly he wants to buy the product.

Agreed. My wife is into antiques and from my watching what goes on there it is easy to see that most of the items have no intrinsic value at all. Yet it sells for sometimes insane amounts of money. It 100% depends upon how many different people want it and how deep their pockets are.

[Ronin]

My real question to everyone is this though, assuming this is true. Do you think 1 Billion is enough to get the Bills? Is this a nail in the coffin, or is 1 Billion not enough. Thoughts?

 

One way or the other regarding the new owners, IMO $1B is somewhere around max, if that, if the team is to stay in Buffalo or the surrounding region. If the price is significantly higher, expect a deal to have been struck to be able to move the team within 2-3 years of buying it if not sooner.

 

A huge chunk of the viability of a team's location is the corporate dollars in the community, and let's face it, amidst NYS politics/taxation, we all know that such a base no longer exists in WNY or even CNY anymore. It once did, but every non-service corporation worth a ****, for the most part, has moved its HQ out of the region as a direct result of strangling taxes.

 

Toronto compares to Boston or Charlotte in terms of being a financial center. So figure that regardless of the asking price, if a Canadian interest purchases the team, it will be to move it across the border. Only a fool would not given the options.

 

The question would then be would such a move, say to Hamilton, not geographically distant from Buffalo or Niagara Falls, although more so from Rochester and other population centers in WNY, be enough to retain the majority of the current base of Bills fans. I don't think it would although to each his own. I would drop my interest in the team at that point to merely a passing interest. I doubt that I would ever make the trip to Canada for a game, even if I still lived there.

 

Everyone that's expecting that the team cannot possibly be moved however should be cautioned. A deal can be struck with a buyout for the county, to move that team much sooner than the 2020 of which everyone speaks. None of that stuff is written such that it cannot be altered, and it could very well come down to the other 31 teams pitching in to buyout that clause, at what, just over $10M per team, to have it moved and expand the NFL's market to Canada, aka internationally, which it's wanted to do for years now.

 

Could even be less per team. I mean what would the county execs do if the NFL told them that the team would not be there anyway past 2019 (or whatever season), and offered the country $100 to $200M to settle that? Naturally I'd also expect some money to have changed hands behind closed doors that we'll never see or hear about prior to it being too late, maybe never.

 

Now that (IMO) enough time has passed, if Wilson really wanted to keep the team in Buffalo and really "did all that he could do to see to that," he'd have sold it to an interest that promised and wanted to keep it in Buffalo while he was still alive. IMO he did not do so for selfishly motivated reasons. I realize that that sentiment is going to be about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool on a hot summer day, but that's a fact, that if he wanted to do the most that he could to keep the team in WNY he'd have sold it to an owner that would do so while he could have. There is far too much uncertainty now, and while we're all excited about the possibility of Trump buying the team, there too, other people have more money than Trump for one, and secondly, he could very well just be doing it for publicity, and lastly, Trump's the one that challenged the NFL head-on w/ the USFL, which might end up being a showstopper for him in terms of ownership.

Edited April 21, 2014 by TaskersGhost

[K-9]

... Now that (IMO) enough time has passed, if Wilson really wanted to keep the team in Buffalo and really "did all that he could do to see to that," he'd have sold it to an interest that promised and wanted to keep it in Buffalo while he was still alive. IMO he did not do so for selfishly motivated reasons. I realize that that sentiment is going to be about as popular as a turd in a swimming pool on a hot summer day, but that's a fact, that if he wanted to do the most that he could to keep the team in WNY he'd have sold it to an owner that would do so while he could have. There is far too much uncertainty now, and while we're all excited about the possibility of Trump buying the team, there too, other people have more money than Trump for one, and secondly, he could very well just be doing it for publicity, and lastly, Trump's the one that challenged the NFL head-on w/ the USFL, which might end up being a showstopper for him in terms of ownership.

 

Mr. Wilson was never going to sell in his lifetime. To do so would have exposed him and his family to hundreds of millions of dollars in capital gains taxes. Nothing selfish about that. Just makes the best sense from a financial standpoint.

 

As to the lease language, it can only be re-written if the county agrees to do that. Why would they? There was a link to an article a couple weeks ago quoting a lawyer and legal scholar as to the strength of the language as well as the potential financial burden it could impose on owners seeking to move the team before the lease is up. When you have to pay nearly as much in penalties, legal fees, and relocation fees as you do for the franchise, it would give anyone pause.

 

Lastly, the idea of the other 31 owners agreeing to kick in $10m a piece, is unrealistic at best.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[FLFan]

Agreed. My wife is into antiques and from my watching what goes on there it is easy to see that most of the items have no intrinsic value at all. Yet it sells for sometimes insane amounts of money. It 100% depends upon how many different people want it and how deep their pockets are.

Exactly right. The market will dictate, and since the Bills are the only team for sale in the foreseeable future, they are clearly in a seller's market. $1B could be the minimum starting point and I could could see it going higher, perhaps much higher.

[CodeMonkey]

Lastly, the idea of the other 31 owners agreeing to kick in $10m a piece, is unrealistic at best.

Oh I disagree completely about this. The owners are all businessmen and as such would look at the long term gain of having a team in a larger and considerably more affluent market, particularly if it was an international market. Ten million is not a particularly large investment for them considering the possible benefits. Not unrealistic at all in my opinion.

[MikeSpeed]

 

So knowing they would be gone in 5 or 6 years would not allow you to enjoy going to a game now? Is your reason for going supporting the team financially or having a good time and cheering for them? I get being disappointed and even pissed off about a move. But if you enjoy going, why not continue as long as you can? I guess this is all rhetorical. I just don't get it.

 

For example, i don't go to games now but I do enjoy watching the games on TV with my family. I strongly suspect we would stop watching the games when the team moved, but we still would watch until then because we enjoy it.

Not trying to answer for Gordio, but for me I'm sure I can find some other reason to have a social gathering, even if it meant rooting for another team not formally named Buffalo Bills. I just will not give my time or dime to the people will be cutting my throat later on.

[CodeMonkey]

Not trying to answer for Gordio, but for me I'm sure I can find some other reason to have a social gathering, even if it meant rooting for another team not formally named Buffalo Bills. I just will not give my time or dime to the people will be cutting my throat later on.

I guess that right there is the difference. I don't consider it cutting my throat. If I felt that way I could see your viewpoint.

[billykaykay]

If you are a BUFFALO Bills fan then you will not root for the Toronto Bills (or whatever they change the name to). Did people in Cleveland root for the Ravens? No. Anyone rooting for a Bon Jovi owned Bills team is a traitor

I grew up in the NYC area as a Brooklyn Dodger fan. When they left, I stayed a Dodger fan. Perhaps, that was because Buffalo doesn't have a major league team. Many friends became Mets fans.

I also grew up a NYG football fan. After moving to Buffalo, I became a Bills fan. A lot has to do if one's community has a team or not, I guess.

[KDIGGZ]

I have several relatives in the Cleveland area and after they got another team they all went so far as to say as long as the Browns beat the Ravens they could lose out the rest of the season and they would be forgiven.

 

They were also proud of the fact that the Cleveland police apparently told Modell they could not guarantee his safety if he went to Cleveland for the games.

True that. If Bon Jovi buys our team they won't be able to guarantee his safety anywhere. And if the Bills leave Buffalo they are dead to me and I will root for any team that plays against them

[K-9]

True that. If Bon Jovi buys our team they won't be able to guarantee his safety anywhere. And if the Bills leave Buffalo they are dead to me and I will root for any team that plays against them

 

This isn't directed at you, but how phucked up is it that an owner would need to fear for his safety over such a thing in the first place? The scary thing is though, they would. Simply because there's a deranged knuck-knuck out there pissed off enough at losing the team to exact his misguided form of revenge.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Gordio]

 

 

Whew man. The NFL sure loves making things complicated don't they.

 

 

So knowing they would be gone in 5 or 6 years would not allow you to enjoy going to a game now? Is your reason for going supporting the team financially or having a good time and cheering for them? I get being disappointed and even pissed off about a move. But if you enjoy going, why not continue as long as you can? I guess this is all rhetorical. I just don't get it.

 

For example, i don't go to games now but I do enjoy watching the games on TV with my family. I strongly suspect we would stop watching the games when the team moved, but we still would watch until then because we enjoy it.

 

That is right, if they are not going to be loyal to me I am not going to be loyal to them. I got other things to do in the fall on a Sunday then give my hard earn money to a team that can't wait to get out of town & go to greener pastures. My guess is a lot of fans would feel this way & you wouldn't be able to watch the games anyways because none of them would sell out.

[CodeMonkey]

That is right, if they are not going to be loyal to me I am not going to be loyal to them. I got other things to do in the fall on a Sunday then give my hard earn money to a team that can't wait to get out of town & go to greener pastures. My guess is a lot of fans would feel this way & you wouldn't be able to watch the games anyways because none of them would sell out.

There are ways to watch the game beyond local network and internet . But I agree about the sell outs. They are having a tough enough time now and that would get even harder with the people who feel like you do.

[Gordio]

 

There are ways to watch the game beyond local network and internet . But I agree about the sell outs. They are having a tough enough time now and that would get even harder with the people who feel like you do.

 

I have season tickets now & I usually only go to 3 or 4 games a year & sell the rest of my tickets. Be honest, I am kind of in your camp now, much more enjoyable to get the ticket & watch the games down in my basement. If it wasn't for my 10 year old son to be honest with you I probably wouldn't even get season tickets. He loves going to the games. I like going to the games too but I find it the older I get it is just more enjoyable at home.

[KDIGGZ]

if any Toronto based group buys the Bills we need to call for a boycott of all future Bills games going forward and pickett in front of the stadium. That will hurt if they can't sell any tickets for 6 yrs

[ExiledInIllinois]

How can a city like Buffalo, located on the Lake - a great area to live - not be turning things around and attracting business and investment?

 

I am gonna catch flak for this, watch. I am not trying to be mean, just living in reality. To answer your question. Part of the problem is because it is such a crap shoot weatherwise. You speak of "the Lake." It is already April 21st, you wanna be next to this? What can be done? These days of the year, you can't do anything with "The Lake."

 

http://www.iceboom.nypa.gov/

 

It is the same reason why business and investment isn't too terribly attracted to remote places like this:

 

http://wavesatseacaves.cee.wisc.edu/wave_pics/2014/2014-04-21_12_30.jpg

 

I am sorry, it is what it is. I love Buffalo and Western New York, but it is handcuffed in so many ways! Business and investment doesn't like chance. Taking a chance on: "Maybe next year will be a mild winter." Is downright scary for business that do not like uncertainty.

 

Again, I will get flak for this seeing how Buffalo is trying to bust out of the natural mode it was cast in. It is what it is as much as it pains me to say it. Human engineering isn't helping... The only business and investment they are worried about is getting that power from The Falls and sending it a zillion miles somewhere else. (Toronto and NYC). They are saying eff BFLO/Niagara Falls and "Their Lake" while places like Toronto and NYC get cheap power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bbb]

The bottom line is New York State and Western New York have a "lousy" business climate that is not conducive for a professional sports franchise and its long term prospects. Outrages taxes, income, sales, and property not only discourage investment in New York, they have drove thousands of educated young professionals out of state along with a lot of discretionary spending cash.

 

If there were any indications that the economy was turning around and an economic boom was in the works, Bon Jovi would not be relevant to anything.

 

How can a city like Buffalo, located on the Lake - a great area to live - not be turning things around and attracting business and investment?

I was born and raised in Buffalo and my family held season tickets from 1960 until 1986 and love the state, but truth is, it is not a magnet for business nor investment!

 

This was a great post. In 2007.