Dorkington Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If a rookie QB who split reps going into the season, and had a couple injuries, doesn't carry an average team to the playoffs, he is a bust and should be replaced the very next year... ... this place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I agree with you. Qb is one of our top 3 weaknesses. We have a playoff caliber roster. Qb is what is holding us back. If the scouts think someone will be good or great take him. Who cares if we took one last year. Its not your money and if ej has a problem with it he should work his ass off to make sure hes the starter and force the other guy to the bench or traded. I agree with you. Qb is one of our top 3 weaknesses. We have a playoff caliber roster. Qb is what is holding us back. If the scouts think someone will be good or great take him. Who cares if we took one last year. Its not your money and if ej has a problem with it he should work his ass off to make sure hes the starter and force the other guy to the bench or traded. It's safe to say our scouts think Manuel is going to be good to great. The problem with this year's draft is there isn't anyone at the position that makes them better right now, THIS season. Literally EVERY QB in the draft is a project of some sort. You'd end up having two EJ Manuels in terms of developmental concerns. If there were an Andrew Luck, then you have no problem telling EJ, "Here, hold this clipboard and watch how this other kid plays." When you strip away the hype, much of it manufactured, it's easy to see nobody comes any closer than Manuel at this stage of their careers. Indeed, in terms of the raw physical qualities you'd like to see, with the exception of his abysmal lower body mechanics, EJ Manuel is already superior. Now if I'm wrong about all that and the Bills really do have one of these QB prospects rated BPA when their turn comes, I can be swayed by a strong counter-argument. But at least I'll know it's based on real scouting practices and not the hype that comes around this time of year. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If a rookie QB who split reps going into the season, and had a couple injuries, doesn't carry an average team to the playoffs, he is a bust and should be replaced the very next year... ... this place. I've read this whole tread and don't remember anyone saying that EJ was a bust or should be benched ASAP. The only things I see are people worried that he will not pan out and that we will be left with nothing AGAIN. Drafting a QB would at least ensure that we have someone to take over next year if EJ doesn't pan out. At best this years drafted QB would be EJ back-up. A case could be made to draft a QB in the later rounds, but if we are trying to play the odds here drafting one in round 1 is the better bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 It's safe to say our scouts think Manuel is going to be good to great. The problem with this year's draft is there isn't anyone at the position that makes them better right now, THIS season. Literally EVERY QB in the draft is a project of some sort. You'd end up having two EJ Manuels in terms of developmental concerns. If there were an Andrew Luck, then you have no problem telling EJ, "Here, hold this clipboard and watch how this other kid plays." When you strip away the hype, much of it manufactured, it's easy to see nobody comes any closer than Manuel at this stage of their careers. Indeed, in terms of the raw physical qualities you'd like to see, with the exception of his abysmal lower body mechanics, EJ Manuel is already superior. Now if I'm wrong about all that and the Bills really do have one of these QB prospects rated BPA when their turn comes, I can be swayed by a strong counter-argument. But at least I'll know it's based on real scouting practices and not the hype that comes around this time of year. GO BILLS!!! Boom... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) It's safe to say our scouts think Manuel is going to be good to great. The problem with this year's draft is there isn't anyone at the position that makes them better right now, THIS season. Literally EVERY QB in the draft is a project of some sort. You'd end up having two EJ Manuels in terms of developmental concerns. If there were an Andrew Luck, then you have no problem telling EJ, "Here, hold this clipboard and watch how this other kid plays." When you strip away the hype, much of it manufactured, it's easy to see nobody comes any closer than Manuel at this stage of their careers. Indeed, in terms of the raw physical qualities you'd like to see, with the exception of his abysmal lower body mechanics, EJ Manuel is already superior. Now if I'm wrong about all that and the Bills really do have one of these QB prospects rated BPA when their turn comes, I can be swayed by a strong counter-argument. But at least I'll know it's based on real scouting practices and not the hype that comes around this time of year. GO BILLS!!! Getting started on another project, who can just hold the clipboard for awhile while EJ tries to prove himself, wouldn't be detrimental. Was Aaron Rodgers' "development" stunted by holding the clipboard and not getting reps behind Favre? Or was their QB of the future already on the roster when he left? I have no issues with taking a QB at #9 who doesn't see the field. Maybe EJ "needs more weapons" but we drafted two WR's and overhauled the defense for him. Weapons and O-line will be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The odds of us getting a Jimmy Graham/Anquan Boldin at 9 is low anyway, I don't want a QB to start over Manuel. That would be a pleasant surprise. I want a potential QB who is ready to take over if Manuel is garbage/gets hurt and the season is ruined. Instead of having a rookie start in 2015 if Manuel busts. Edited March 20, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllsNation Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Getting started on another project, who can just hold the clipboard for awhile while EJ tries to prove himself, wouldn't be detrimental. Was Aaron Rodgers' "development" stunted by holding the clipboard and not getting reps behind Favre? Or was their QB of the future already on the roster when he left? I have no issues with taking a QB at #9 who doesn't see the field. Maybe EJ "needs more weapons" but we drafted two WR's and overhauled the defense for him. Weapons and O-line will be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. I don't want a QB to start over Manuel. That would be a pleasant surprise. I want a potential QB who is ready to take over if Manuel is garbage/gets hurt and the season is ruined. Instead of having a rookie start in 2015 if Manuel busts. we have too many other needs to draft a qb early this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 It's safe to say our scouts think Manuel is going to be good to great. The problem with this year's draft is there isn't anyone at the position that makes them better right now, THIS season. Literally EVERY QB in the draft is a project of some sort. You'd end up having two EJ Manuels in terms of developmental concerns. If there were an Andrew Luck, then you have no problem telling EJ, "Here, hold this clipboard and watch how this other kid plays." When you strip away the hype, much of it manufactured, it's easy to see nobody comes any closer than Manuel at this stage of their careers. Indeed, in terms of the raw physical qualities you'd like to see, with the exception of his abysmal lower body mechanics, EJ Manuel is already superior. Now if I'm wrong about all that and the Bills really do have one of these QB prospects rated BPA when their turn comes, I can be swayed by a strong counter-argument. But at least I'll know it's based on real scouting practices and not the hype that comes around this time of year. GO BILLS!!! Best response to the "draft a QB Round 1" crowd I have ever seen here. Bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 If you aren't willing to commit to a QB then you are wasting picks. You pick a guy and stick with him long enough to know if he can do the job. No, one OTA is not enough to tell. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Getting started on another project, who can just hold the clipboard for awhile while EJ tries to prove himself, wouldn't be detrimental. Was Aaron Rodgers' "development" stunted by holding the clipboard and not getting reps behind Favre? Or was their QB of the future already on the roster when he left? I have no issues with taking a QB at #9 who doesn't see the field. Maybe EJ "needs more weapons" but we drafted two WR's and overhauled the defense for him. Weapons and O-line will be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The odds of us getting a Jimmy Graham/Anquan Boldin at 9 is low anyway, I don't want a QB to start over Manuel. That would be a pleasant surprise. I want a potential QB who is ready to take over if Manuel is garbage/gets hurt and the season is ruined. Instead of having a rookie start in 2015 if Manuel busts. This is why drafting Murray isn't a bad idea at all if the scouts like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 we have too many other needs to draft a qb early this year Please list them. Needs don't include "perennial pro-bowler." This is why drafting Murray isn't a bad idea at all if the scouts like him. I can get behind Murray. The Pats tried something similar with Mallett, but it didn't work as brilliantly as Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Getting started on another project, who can just hold the clipboard for awhile while EJ tries to prove himself, wouldn't be detrimental. Was Aaron Rodgers' "development" stunted by holding the clipboard and not getting reps behind Favre? Or was their QB of the future already on the roster when he left? I have no issues with taking a QB at #9 who doesn't see the field. Maybe EJ "needs more weapons" but we drafted two WR's and overhauled the defense for him. Weapons and O-line will be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The odds of us getting a Jimmy Graham/Anquan Boldin at 9 is low anyway, I don't want a QB to start over Manuel. That would be a pleasant surprise. I want a potential QB who is ready to take over if Manuel is garbage/gets hurt and the season is ruined. Instead of having a rookie start in 2015 if Manuel busts. Do you really want to compare EJ to Farve? How does that help your arguement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Please list them. Needs don't include "perennial pro-bowler." I can get behind Murray. The Pats tried something similar with Mallett, but it didn't work as brilliantly as Rodgers. I think the real thing is that Mallett was never going to get his chances behind Brady. Rodgers got a seat behind Favre a good bit later in Favre's career timeline. Favre was costing them games at the end by trusting his declining skills even while putting up pinball numbers. Brady hasn't quite done that yet, but we can hope. I think the other thing is you can draft Murray and have no expectations on him for 2014 while letting EJ know there will be competition in the long run if he doesn't succeed. Also, drafting Murray in no way precludes picking up a first round QB in 2015. Drafting EJ, then Bortles or someone else... kind of does. Unless you want the picture of dysfunction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Do you really want to compare EJ to Farve? How does that help your arguement? I'm comparing a project 1st rounder QB to Rodgers actually. It's well-documented that Favre did nothing for Rodgers, it could have been Chad Pennington starting and Rodgers would still be Rodgers. I think the real thing is that Mallett was never going to get his chances behind Brady. Rodgers got a seat behind Favre a good bit later in Favre's career timeline. Favre was costing them games at the end by trusting his declining skills even while putting up pinball numbers. Brady hasn't quite done that yet, but we can hope. I think the other thing is you can draft Murray and have no expectations on him for 2015 while letting EJ know there will be competition in the long run if he doesn't succeed. Also, drafting Murray in no way precludes picking up a first round QB in 2015. Drafting EJ, then Bortles or someone else... kind of does. Unless you want the picture of dysfunction. If we draft another 1st round QB this year, we definitely can do it next year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'm comparing a project 1st rounder QB to Rodgers actually. It's well-documented that Favre did nothing for Rodgers, it could have been Chad Pennington starting and Rodgers would still be Rodgers. If we draft another 1st round QB this year, we definitely can do it next year too. I don't know. I think it'd be pure lunacy. At some point you are costing yourself when you can only put one of these guys on the field at a time. You have to give the kid the keys and let them drive for awhile. Luck has impressed everyone but he has also made errors that every young QB is capable of -- and he is thought of as one of the very best to come out in a long time. Young QBs do need to struggle a little bit to get somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 I'm comparing a project 1st rounder QB to Rodgers actually. It's well-documented that Favre did nothing for Rodgers, it could have been Chad Pennington starting and Rodgers would still be Rodgers. If we draft another 1st round QB this year, we definitely can do it next year too. So which of the QB's in this draft is the next "Rodgers"? And how many 1st round QB's do we line up in our attempts to find the next "Rodgers"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 So which of the QB's in this draft is the next "Rodgers"? And how many 1st round QB's do we line up in our attempts to find the next "Rodgers"? EVERY YEAR. WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RI Bills Fan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 EVERY YEAR. WHETHER THEY EXIST OR NOT! That seems to be the position a few of the posters in this thread are taking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) I don't know. I think it'd be pure lunacy. At some point you are costing yourself when you can only put one of these guys on the field at a time. You have to give the kid the keys and let them drive for awhile. Luck has impressed everyone but he has also made errors that every young QB is capable of -- and he is thought of as one of the very best to come out in a long time. Young QBs do need to struggle a little bit to get somewhere. I actually had a legitimate counterpoint but no time to write it. Here it goes. You said taking a first round QB this year really hampers us from taking one in 2015. And I agree. Here's the thing. #1- our roster is too talented to get the #1 overall next year. Even if Manuel busts, we'll still win 4-5 games and end up with #4-#9, like always. No chance of getting Winston or a sure fire Luck prospect. #2 - If Manuel busted, and I believe we'll know by the end of this season, who would you rather start 2015? The 2nd or 3rd prospect in the 2014 draft who has a year under his belt of the system and maybe some injury related playing time or a rookie 2nd or 3rd project from 2015? I don't advocate "every year." But I do advocate contingency plans with the potential to succeed, before we "always let free agents leave." So which of the QB's in this draft is the next "Rodgers"? And how many 1st round QB's do we line up in our attempts to find the next "Rodgers"? Do you remember Rodgers? How much of a project he was? How McCarthy revamped his mechanics? Rodgers is what we hope EJ to be. Edited March 20, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Getting started on another project, who can just hold the clipboard for awhile while EJ tries to prove himself, wouldn't be detrimental. Was Aaron Rodgers' "development" stunted by holding the clipboard and not getting reps behind Favre? Or was their QB of the future already on the roster when he left? I have no issues with taking a QB at #9 who doesn't see the field. Maybe EJ "needs more weapons" but we drafted two WR's and overhauled the defense for him. Weapons and O-line will be available in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The odds of us getting a Jimmy Graham/Anquan Boldin at 9 is low anyway, I don't want a QB to start over Manuel. That would be a pleasant surprise. I want a potential QB who is ready to take over if Manuel is garbage/gets hurt and the season is ruined. Instead of having a rookie start in 2015 if Manuel busts. You have no issues with a QB taken at 9 that doesn't see the field? You don't want a QB to start over Manuel? I find that hard to believe. You'd be OK with your boy Johnny Manziel sitting behind Manuel? You'd give him the same 3 years that Rodgers got? I don't believe that for a second. GO BILLS!!! I don't know. I think it'd be pure lunacy. At some point you are costing yourself when you can only put one of these guys on the field at a time. You have to give the kid the keys and let them drive for awhile. Luck has impressed everyone but he has also made errors that every young QB is capable of -- and he is thought of as one of the very best to come out in a long time. Young QBs do need to struggle a little bit to get somewhere. This is so true. I'm a big believer in the 1,000 attempt rule of thumb. It's been around for decades and it's usually an accurate barometer. That's just pass attempts. A young QB is also gathering valuable experience on non-passing plays as well. I say that because I've always appreciated the difference between being a quarterback and being a passer. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 ... #2 - If Manuel busted, and I believe we'll know by the end of this season, who would you rather start 2015? The 2nd or 3rd prospect in the 2014 draft who has a year under his belt of the system and maybe some injury related playing time or a rookie 2nd or 3rd project from 2015? ... Do you remember Rodgers? How much of a project he was? How McCarthy revamped his mechanics? Rodgers is what we hope EJ to be. Wait, why does EJ only get to the end of 2014? How come he doesn't get the same three seasons that Rodgers got? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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