Kellyto83TD Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Build through the draft is great I am all on board but we need a true #1 WR that teams respect and somewhat fear (sorry Stevie homers he is nothing more than a #2 and so is Woods), and we need a true threat at TE. Defense is starting to come on,Offense has glaring needs at #1 WR, TE, OG and Depth. Oh and good Backup QB would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 (edited) If you assume we are trying to make the playoffs, and not simply in year two of a multi-year re-build, I would think all 4 of those positions (WR, TE, OG and QB backup) would be more effectively addressed via free agency. WR, TE, specifically, more often than not, take two seasons or so to reach their potential. You might be able to pick up some decent depth on the O-line, via the draft...but if you want to give your franchise QB every chance to succeed, eperienced depth on the line would seem prudent. And, backup QB, is a free-agent no brainer... if not, if they go with a drafted QB, they are really no more solid at the position than they were this past season. I am cool with Thaddeus Lewis as one of our three guys, it will be interesting to see what happens with Tuel. As for TE, I am still kind of curious to see if Chris Gragg has some use in the future. He didn't play a lot, but toward the end of the season, I think he showed some potential. Edited January 30, 2014 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 some but not all? No matter what no one will be 100% satisfied Needs to fill Run Stopper on those HUGE plays that killed the Bills not a player exactly but a concept consistency on the offense to keep the TE play and contribute each and every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Do real number one WR hit the FA market? It's pretty rare. The Bills don't need another number two, so I think this is a hard position to address in FA. Moeaki muddies the waters at TE. I think OL and LB, is where to focus. Edited January 31, 2014 by chris heff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think it would make sense to sign a starting RT in free agency, kicking Pears to the swing tackle spot. Best candidates IMO are Strief & Collins. I'd also sign another potential swing OT like Svitek, Newhouse, or Fox. After that, bring in a 1-year stopgap at guard; a veteran guy that would come relatively inexpensive like the Jets did with Colon last year. Some options along this line include Pollak, Wharton, Boothe, the aforementioned Colon, and Schwartz. Lastly, re-sign or tag Byrd and go after a veteran CB to back up Gilmore and McKelvin. Do that and I'm happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Build through the draft is great I am all on board but we need a true #1 WR that teams respect and somewhat fear (sorry Stevie homers he is nothing more than a #2 and so is Woods), and we need a true threat at TE. Defense is starting to come on,Offense has glaring needs at #1 WR, TE, OG and Depth. Oh and good Backup QB would be nice Address all position in FA that are a glaring weakness. Then build depth through the draft. The draft should be where you build depth at key positions., not search for starters. If those starters break through, than that's awesome, you did a great job scouting. But I say go get a WR, TE, QB, G, LB, CB in Free Agency. Bring in some players who have been on Playoff Teams to help bring about a change in attitude in the locker room. We need a culture change. FA's who have been on winning teams and were leaders are a great way to bring about an attitude change on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I think it would make sense to sign a starting RT in free agency, kicking Pears to the swing tackle spot. Pears will be released given his salary if he's not starting. It's the Bills' method of operation over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Pears will be released given his salary if he's not starting. It's the Bills' method of operation over the years. Not necessarily. There have been times they've done this and times they haven't...and as I've noted to you on several other topics, just because Marv/Donahoe/Nix did something in the past, that doesn't mean Whaley will do it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Not necessarily. There have been times they've done this and times they haven't...and as I've noted to you on several other topics, just because Marv/Donahoe/Nix did something in the past, that doesn't mean Whaley will do it now. You and I will continue to disagree on this, but it remains to be seen if this team is operating under different financial rules. Depth on this team has typically been provided going back years with lower round draft picks, UDFA's, low cost UFA's, and waiver wire acquisitions. The team doesn't normally pay for depth, as evidenced by the Levitre fiasco last season, Langston Walker in 2009, and reaching back to the Donahoe years. A lot happens above the personnel people. I don't expect to see a lot of splurging in UFA from Whaley. He grew up in Pittsburgh and they didn't spend enormously on free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You and I will continue to disagree on this, but it remains to be seen if this team is operating under different financial rules. Depth on this team has typically been provided going back years with lower round draft picks, UDFA's, low cost UFA's, and waiver wire acquisitions. The team doesn't normally pay for depth, as evidenced by the Levitre fiasco last season, Langston Walker in 2009, and reaching back to the Donahoe years. A lot happens above the personnel people. I don't expect to see a lot of splurging in UFA from Whaley. He grew up in Pittsburgh and they didn't spend enormously on free agents. I didn't say anything about splurging in FA...I said to sign a starting RT, a backup OT, a stopgap at OG, and perhaps a depth CB. The reason we continue to disagree is that you continue to use the Donahoe & Levy years as proof that Whaley is going to operate a certain way...I'm not going to do that. I'm not sure what proof you're looking for that things work differently now, but here's just a few clues: - The team drafted a QB with their first draft pick for the first time ever - The team drafted some non-choir boys in Alonso and Duke Williams for the first time since Hardy in 2008 (and signed Da'Rick Rodgers as well) - The team shelled out $3M for Alan Branch in FA, who wasn't slotted to be a starter--I'd define that as paying for depth The Levitre fiasco isn't a function of not paying for depth from what I saw; it's a function of the coaches improperly evaluating the ability of their current players. They obviously felt that Colin Brown had shown enough to be a starting guard; they were wrong. I can't get on them too badly for that, considering that he had acquitted himself nicely with his work at center in 2011 and guard in 2012. For what it's worth, they did go out and procure depth on the OL by signing Legursky, who they thought would be their top backup interior lineman. When Brown didn't work out, he became a starter, which hurt their depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I didn't say anything about splurging in FA...I said to sign a starting RT, a backup OT, a stopgap at OG, and perhaps a depth CB. For what it's worth, they did go out and procure depth on the OL by signing Legursky, who they thought would be their top backup interior lineman. When Brown didn't work out, he became a starter, which hurt their depth chart. How much do you think a starting RT will cost because they aren't cheap. OT's, even decent RT's don't frequently hit the UFA market. As for a stop-gap G, the team signed one last season in early June, Legursky, who clearly didn't stop much. Last year was a good year for cost-effective CB's, and yet they chose not to sign one despite having the as yet unproven McKelvin penciled in to start. Branch was the only proven quality veteran on the team in 2013 who garnered interest on the market. I don't see a player who'd be depth on the 2013 roster who was paid more than 1M for the season. The Bills weren't overwhelmingly hit by the injury bug last year, though in several previous seasons couldn't handle many injuries. They don't build depth because they've drafted poorly and elected not to spend on veterans who could bridge the gap when a starter goes down. NFL franchises operate to profit. Some simply choose to prioritize this more than others, which typically affects on-field results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 How much do you think a starting RT will cost because they aren't cheap. OT's, even decent RT's don't frequently hit the UFA market. As for a stop-gap G, the team signed one last season in early June, Legursky, who clearly didn't stop much. Last year was a good year for cost-effective CB's, and yet they chose not to sign one despite having the as yet unproven McKelvin penciled in to start. Branch was the only proven quality veteran on the team in 2013 who garnered interest on the market. I don't see a player who'd be depth on the 2013 roster who was paid more than 1M for the season. The Bills weren't overwhelmingly hit by the injury bug last year, though in several previous seasons couldn't handle many injuries. They don't build depth because they've drafted poorly and elected not to spend on veterans who could bridge the gap when a starter goes down. NFL franchises operate to profit. Some simply choose to prioritize this more than others, which typically affects on-field results. Not hard hit by injuries? Our secondary was decimated for the first 5 games last season. Forced a ton of scrambling around and really postponed the maturation process in the new defense. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 You and I will continue to disagree on this, but it remains to be seen if this team is operating under different financial rules. Depth on this team has typically been provided going back years with lower round draft picks, UDFA's, low cost UFA's, and waiver wire acquisitions. The team doesn't normally pay for depth, as evidenced by the Levitre fiasco last season, Langston Walker in 2009, and reaching back to the Donahoe years. A lot happens above the personnel people. I don't expect to see a lot of splurging in UFA from Whaley. He grew up in Pittsburgh and they didn't spend enormously on free agents. Sorry, but using what this team did under entirely different management/philosphies offers nothing useful to determining what the current group will do. The Levitre situation is not proof that they are not willing to pay for depth. It only indicated (1) they were not willing to overpay - which they certainly would have had to do, and (2) overestimating the health and talent of his replacement (s). As for "a lot of splurging" in free agency - since when is that a recipe for building a championship team? Ask Miami how that worked out for them last year and other teams that have tried the same approach. I believe they should (and hope they will) be more active in free agency this year; however, the cost for top tier free agents in our areas of need have been rediculous for the most part - and very, very few ever produce commensurate with the contracts they sign. I believe whatever money they spend should go toward second tier guys that are solid and productive - and continue to build the team through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Address all position in FA that are a glaring weakness. Then build depth through the draft. The draft should be where you build depth at key positions., not search for starters. If those starters break through, than that's awesome, you did a great job scouting. But I say go get a WR, TE, QB, G, LB, CB in Free Agency. Bring in some players who have been on Playoff Teams to help bring about a change in attitude in the locker room. We need a culture change. FA's who have been on winning teams and were leaders are a great way to bring about an attitude change on this team. Very well put, I don't know that I've ever heard it put so succinctly! Makes a lot of sense. The only thing I might not agree with is a player drafted at the top part of the first round, as we do at #9. I think you pay for and expect a starter at this level of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 How much do you think a starting RT will cost because they aren't cheap. OT's, even decent RT's don't frequently hit the UFA market. As for a stop-gap G, the team signed one last season in early June, Legursky, who clearly didn't stop much. Last year was a good year for cost-effective CB's, and yet they chose not to sign one despite having the as yet unproven McKelvin penciled in to start. Branch was the only proven quality veteran on the team in 2013 who garnered interest on the market. I don't see a player who'd be depth on the 2013 roster who was paid more than 1M for the season. The Bills weren't overwhelmingly hit by the injury bug last year, though in several previous seasons couldn't handle many injuries. They don't build depth because they've drafted poorly and elected not to spend on veterans who could bridge the gap when a starter goes down. NFL franchises operate to profit. Some simply choose to prioritize this more than others, which typically affects on-field results. Depends on who it is...if you're talking about a younger guy like Collins, you're probably looking similar to the contract signed by Gosder Cherlius last year: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/gosder-cherilus/ 5 years, total possible value of $35M, $15M guaranteed, $15.5M in the first 3 years Strief may cost less because he's a bit older...possibly closer to the $16M over 4 years that Vollmer got from NE. For the record, RTs often become FAs...last off-season alone saw Cherilus, Vollmer, Loadholdt, Andre Smith, Winston Justice, Ryan Harris, King Dunlap, and others hit the open market. For what it's worth, there were also 4 LTs that hit the open market last year. As I said in my previous post, Legursky wasn't intended to be a stopgap OG, he was intended to be the top interior backup, a guy that could start a few games at center of fill in at OG in spot duty when injuries occur mid-game. You're also waaaaaay off regarding the injury issue. Almost every skill position starter missed at least one game due to injury, as well as every starting DB (plus Manny Lawson). I guess I don't understand your line of thinking...you seem to be upset that the Bills don't go out and spend money, but you argue against signing a FA RT because it will cost money... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 The most critical need to be addressed in FA is free safety. Either sign Byrd or replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Do we want to bring in FA journeymen for depth at OL? How many of them are at the level of Hangartner? He's a guy I would have liked to keep and about the only one in the last 10 years that really sticks out in my mind as being of worth. I would look to add possible depth there but not neglect it in the draft. FA can add us a TE, NT/34DT, ILB, and WR. I'd also like to look around and kick tires at Punter. We don't need the first 20 names on the list at WR. We need someone who can play special teams, come in off the bench for the 4th/5th WR. That 4th/5th WR is key to us. With SJ13 missing time in games, Goodwin missing many games as a rookie and depth at WR being a problem it is likely the 4th/5th WR could see more then normal playing time as a 3rd or 4th WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Very well put, I don't know that I've ever heard it put so succinctly! Makes a lot of sense. The only thing I might not agree with is a player drafted at the top part of the first round, as we do at #9. I think you pay for and expect a starter at this level of the draft. Agreed. The #9 Player in the NFL Draft should be an impact player and contribute right away. I just think that teams put too much emphasis on addressing all their "Needs" in the draft and need to break that train of thought. FA should be used to get pro talent in those positions of need to contribute or atleast compete for the position. It can only help by having more depth and competition in those positions. Edited January 31, 2014 by mattsox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Depends on who it is...if you're talking about a younger guy like Collins, you're probably looking similar to the contract signed by Gosder Cherlius last year: http://www.spotrac.c...osder-cherilus/ 5 years, total possible value of $35M, $15M guaranteed, $15.5M in the first 3 years Strief may cost less because he's a bit older...possibly closer to the $16M over 4 years that Vollmer got from NE. For the record, RTs often become FAs...last off-season alone saw Cherilus, Vollmer, Loadholdt, Andre Smith, Winston Justice, Ryan Harris, King Dunlap, and others hit the open market. For what it's worth, there were also 4 LTs that hit the open market last year. As I said in my previous post, Legursky wasn't intended to be a stopgap OG, he was intended to be the top interior backup, a guy that could start a few games at center of fill in at OG in spot duty when injuries occur mid-game. You're also waaaaaay off regarding the injury issue. Almost every skill position starter missed at least one game due to injury, as well as every starting DB (plus Manny Lawson). I guess I don't understand your line of thinking...you seem to be upset that the Bills don't go out and spend money, but you argue against signing a FA RT because it will cost money... Legursky was signed to be primary depth? We know this how? He was getting first team reps in camp and Marrone was clearly not happy with Brown as their starting LG. This is more throwing something against the wall and hoping it sticks. Last year several veteran FA CB's were on the market. Buffalo elected not to sign any, further exacerbating the issue. I fully recognize they could not have anticipated this injury bug, but considering they were going into the season with McKelvin, Gilmore, and Robey as their top 3, shouldn't they have planned ahead a little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) I didn't see it, so here's a link to the list of *SCHEDULED* Free agents as of January 24th...whether they make it to the market is a different story: http://www.nfl.com/n...agents-position Edited January 31, 2014 by BigBuff423 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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