Bufcomments Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 The issue Jimmy Graham has, and it may affect fantasy football as well, is that if he and the Saints don't come to an agreement, and he gets tagged, the Saints will tag him as a TE. But Graham is planning to argue, that because he lined up outside for 67% of his snaps this year, he should be considered a wide receiver, not a tight end. The tag difference between WR and TE is about $4.5M. Very interesting. He is listed as a TE . I bet this is how the Saints will tag him under. But Graham has a point and if I were him if they do tag him as a TE I would not sign it . Looks like the only way Graham going to get his true worth money is to hold out and hope the Saints sign him long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 While I agree with your larger point, I wouldn't call 47% a "small percentage of the revenue." It's certainly lower than in the last CBA, but it ain't minimum wage, either. GO BILLS!!! Ha ha, very true. The larger point was that the market determines what we are all worth. I have yet to see a reasonable argument to the contrary. We have created this multi billion dollar business. I'll stand pat on my post just few minutes ago....we shall agree to disagree. But in order to justifiably understand my point, the enitrety of my statement must be read. Because, anything short of its entirety can be taken out of context. I whole-heartedly agree with you last sentence...but, as an athlete in any sport, just don't complain about it publicly or leverage the system against itself for your personal advantage...take what the market bears and be grateful for the opportunity. That ladies and gentlemen, is what generally marks the difference between sports heros of yester-year and the ones today. They were grateful...and LOVED the game... I don't disagree with the public forum part. Remember when Phil Mickelson complained about his taxes in California? It was in poor taste for sure. However I think that in this case raj side is using the media to make the other look like the bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Ha ha, very true. The larger point was that the market determines what we are all worth. I have yet to see a reasonable argument to the contrary. We have created this multi billion dollar business. Absolutely. All players are worth whatever a team is willing to pay him. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufcomments Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Hey Jimmy, come to Buffalo. We'll play you like a receiver. 16 tds (led the NFL), 14 ypc, played through injury. Why jerk this guy around? Brees should shut up. Graham also has one of the best stories too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRsYNFQOwl4 One of my favorite players in the league. I didnt know his story. Wow some people don't get the best parents. It says alot about both his adoptive Mom AND him. Think about how his life would have been different with somebody reaching out to help him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just a random hypothetical for discussion: would you trade this year's 1st & 2nd & next year's 2nd for Jimmy Graham? That is about what I think that it will take (or 2 1sts). It is obviously not likely that he will be shopped so no need to respond with any answer other than a yes or no. It is a hypothetical!! I would do it I think. He covers 2 of the Bills biggest needs (TE & go to receiver). He won't come cheap and it would most likely mean losing Byrd but there is decent saftey depth. For me it would be a yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Just a random hypothetical for discussion: would you trade this year's 1st & 2nd & next year's 2nd for Jimmy Graham? That is about what I think that it will take (or 2 1sts). It is obviously not likely that he will be shopped so no need to respond with any answer other than a yes or no. It is a hypothetical!! I would do it I think. He covers 2 of the Bills biggest needs (TE & go to receiver). He won't come cheap and it would most likely mean losing Byrd but there is decent saftey depth. For me it would be a yes. the obvious question being long term health. his ability warrants it but hes taken a beating and i worry hes not going to last long term (kind of like a shockey career arc instead of a gonzalez) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 the obvious question being long term health. his ability warrants it but hes taken a beating and i worry hes not going to last long term (kind of like a shockey career arc instead of a gonzalez) Fair enough, that is something that I worry about as well. It is probably my only reservation. He should still have some peak physical years left (if healthy) and then late in his career could evolve into a big target possession and red zone guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Very interesting. He is listed as a TE . I bet this is how the Saints will tag him under. But Graham has a point and if I were him if they do tag him as a TE I would not sign it . Looks like the only way Graham going to get his true worth money is to hold out and hope the Saints sign him long term. So here's a serious question: if Graham refused to sign the Franchise Tag and he actually did sit out the entire 2014 season, what happens after that? Is he released to go play for another team or do the Saints still have exclusive rights to him?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 So here's a serious question: if Graham refused to sign the Franchise Tag and he actually did sit out the entire 2014 season, what happens after that? Is he released to go play for another team or do the Saints still have exclusive rights to him?? he will not get credited with an accrued season, will go unpaid, and the saints could tag him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 he will not get credited with an accrued season, will go unpaid, and the saints could tag him again. Ok, thank you for the answer, appreciate that. So, as an owner, this would only serve to strengthen my resolve...theoretically, if Graham didn't sign the Tag, as an owner I hold all the chips, because essentially this could go on for years, in theory only of course. But as an owner, I would simply tell him, play or don't play...don't care, but the Tag and a trade is the best you're getting if you don't like our offer....there's the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibuya Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Ok, thank you for the answer, appreciate that. So, as an owner, this would only serve to strengthen my resolve...theoretically, if Graham didn't sign the Tag, as an owner I hold all the chips, because essentially this could go on for years, in theory only of course. But as an owner, I would simply tell him, play or don't play...don't care, but the Tag and a trade is the best you're getting if you don't like our offer....there's the door. Accept Graham would sign his franchise tag at week #10 and it counts as a season accrued. He'll take a hit in pay for the weeks missed All franchised players who hold out do this.. and if the Saints try to tag him again the next seaosn it automatically jumps 20% for sed player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Accept Graham would sign his franchise tag at week #10 and it counts as a season accrued. He'll take a hit in pay for the weeks missed All franchised players who hold out do this.. and if the Saints try to tag him again the next seaosn it automatically jumps 20% for sed player And that's all fine, but like I said it was only theoretically...second, if he doesn't sign until week 10, he's essentially "playing" for much less than the Tag, and who's fault would that be? And, if the Saints Tag him again, despite it going up 20%, if he again sits out until week 10, or any amount of weeks for that matter, it will essentially be paying him the same amount that he DID not want to begin with...if I'm an owner, I tell you to go f*-- yourself and you can either sign the Tag and we'll trade you or you can sign for the extension the market bears out as fair...for a top tier TE, not WR...I'd love to call myself CEO and collect the money for the job I actually do and don't get paid for it, but eh...that's not happening....and as for looking for another job, I can do that...as can Jimmy Graham, but not without signing the Tag so the tream can get value for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) And that's all fine, but like I said it was only theoretically...second, if he doesn't sign until week 10, he's essentially "playing" for much less than the Tag, and who's fault would that be? And, if the Saints Tag him again, despite it going up 20%, if he again sits out until week 10, or any amount of weeks for that matter, it will essentially be paying him the same amount that he DID not want to begin with...if I'm an owner, I tell you to go f*-- yourself and you can either sign the Tag and we'll trade you or you can sign for the extension the market bears out as fair...for a top tier TE, not WR...I'd love to call myself CEO and collect the money for the job I actually do and don't get paid for it, but eh...that's not happening....and as for looking for another job, I can do that...as can Jimmy Graham, but not without signing the Tag so the tream can get value for him. hes going to be paid an extension as Jimmy Graham emerging nfl superstar, not as a TE or WR. itll be Gronk plus a bit, which will put him at the top of TEs and additionally in the top 5 for WRs probably. ideally, and how the system is designed, when he does sign it, the tag number will go up immensely for tight ends which will help end the need for this debate in the future. as the position changes, the pay changes and as the pay changes, the tag compensation changes. as one of the best tight ends in the league, and perhaps the best to ever hit free agency, jimmy will be changing the positions compensation structure. for him, its unfortunate hes the pioneer that faces a tag thats lower still, but.... such is life sometimes. just because hes the best of the new breed of TE doesnt mean he should be called a WR. Edited February 12, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 hes going to be paid an extension as Jimmy Graham emerging nfl superstar, not as a TE or WR. itll be Gronk plus a bit, which will put him at the top of TEs and additionally in the top 5 for WRs probably. ideally, and how the system is designed, when he does sign it, the tag number will go up immensely for tight ends which will help end the need for this debate in the future. as the position changes, the pay changes and as the pay changes, the tag compensation changes. as one of the best tight ends in the league, and perhaps the best to ever hit free agency, jimmy will be changing the positions compensation structure. for him, its unfortunate hes the pioneer that faces a tag thats lower still, but.... such is life sometimes. just because hes the best of the new breed of TE doesnt mean he should be called a WR. the last bit of your statement is especially true....I would have no problem paying him fair market value for a top tier TE, the problem I have is with the whole public tug-and-pull between the FO and Graham. And, I have to say I resent it when anyone who is getting paid to play a game comes out publicly to say, "It's not fair...I should be paid more", when...come on, it's a game...a game...I mean, a game...while Vets are dieing for our country and good people are slaughtered all over the world, you're getting paid...to play....a game....I was watching Strahan's Football Life on the NFL network last night, and towards the end he talked about how "lucky" and "fortunate" he was to play in the NFL, I just wish all athletes felt this way...get what you can, use your agent to your advantage, but don't dismantle the game as a sport for your own personal gain and for God's sake, don't publicly complain about the millions you're making....it's just lunacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB3 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) the last bit of your statement is especially true....I would have no problem paying him fair market value for a top tier TE, the problem I have is with the whole public tug-and-pull between the FO and Graham. And, I have to say I resent it when anyone who is getting paid to play a game comes out publicly to say, "It's not fair...I should be paid more", when...come on, it's a game...a game...I mean, a game...while Vets are dieing for our country and good people are slaughtered all over the world, you're getting paid...to play....a game....I was watching Strahan's Football Life on the NFL network last night, and towards the end he talked about how "lucky" and "fortunate" he was to play in the NFL, I just wish all athletes felt this way...get what you can, use your agent to your advantage, but don't dismantle the game as a sport for your own personal gain and for God's sake, don't publicly complain about the millions you're making....it's just lunacy. I understand what you're saying, but I just think people get too hung up on the millions part. If you are outperforming everyone you work with, and you are one of the lowest paid people there, wouldn't that really piss you off? If someone put a mic in your face, are you going to continue to toe the company line? In this scenario you would have all the leverage, unlike the real world where they'd probably just can you so you would not have to worry about getting fired. I just don't have a problem with players using media as a bargaining chip. Also, this "game" is their job. Most players put in more hours at their job than most of the normal working class. Edited February 14, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Lets tag Byrd, they tag Graham. Then make a trade!!! I agree with tagging Byrd regardless. EJ and most likely Thad would be grateful to have a reliable TE/WR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 If he takes it to arbitration, he will lose. Even Findlay's agent admitted this. Interesting article in WSJ Friday--compared to actual WRs, Graham wouldn't rank higher than 13 th in any stat category other than TDs. Maybe he would like to be payed as a top 15 WR? He certainly can't claim he's a top 5 WR, so why should he expect to be paid like one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 the saints will tag him as a TE Graham will file his grievence. the two sides will agree on a contract before the grievence is heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Since the talk is about SJ13 being out of Buffalo. Would a 3rd and SJ13 for Jimmy Graham get it done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Since the talk is about SJ13 being out of Buffalo. Would a 3rd and SJ13 for Jimmy Graham get it done? They wouldn't answer the call. 2 1sts or a 1st & 2 2nds to have a chance at Jimmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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