PromoTheRobot Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Well they are into the 2Q in Boise and Mack has yet to make a big play. UB down 14-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 Well they are into the 2Q in Boise and Mack has yet to make a big play. UB down 14-7. I wasn't that impressed with his game against Ohio but I heard he was epic against Ohio State. I'm surprised that he's generally viewed as a Top 10 prospect at this moment. Of course the vetting process is very very early yet. Got the game on, thanks Promo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted December 21, 2013 Share Posted December 21, 2013 because it makes the FO "look bad" and it's a sin to shake a QBs confidence :cry: I seriously doubt whether the Bills FO (or any other for that matter)worries about "looking bad". They do their due diligence on players, draft them ,believe in them and give them their shot. The standard of needing three years to fully evaluate a draft still holds. Most 1st year players do not excel.For some that do, sophomore slumps are not uncommon. Teams always "can" draft whatever position they wish,regardless of the previous year's pick. Teams choose not to at QB because only 1 starts. NFL locker room culture also dictates that their only be one guy. Teams do not alternate QB's like baseball pitchers or NHL goalies. Good luck changing that. QB's also do not generally come in and perform as well as they did in college. They usually need playing time to develop. If teams were allotted say,15 draft picks, more QB's would be selected. The salary rules were changed not to give teams the ability to draft consecutive QB's in the 1st round, but so they weren't killed for years in "cap jail" after they inevitably release QB's that don't pan out after 3 or 4 years. It takes no less time to be sure about a QB than it used to, it just makes it financially viable to move on when the time comes. These concepts make sense to most fans, who realize a high pick at QB for the Bills in 2014 would be a major surprise. This is because EJM has NOT been worse than most 1st year QB's and by typical NFL standards will likely be given the chance to keep the job next season. Not because the FO is worried about "looking bad". An available proven vet QB would be less surprising, as they have an NFL track record, unlike some newly drafted college player, who would likely be no better than EJM was in his 1st season. That 1st round pick will be used on a player that is expected to start on opening day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This game is not hel ping Mack's draft status. UB is getting completely b*tch slapped by lowly SD State and it is highlighting UB's lower-tier athletic ability. To be sure, it is not all Mack's fault and if he shows well at the combine, he could still go high, but this game is exposing the MAC competition... I seriously doubt whether the Bills FO (or any other for that matter)worries about "looking bad". They do their due diligence on players, draft them ,believe in them and give them their shot. The standard of needing three years to fully evaluate a draft still holds. Most 1st year players do not excel.For some that do, sophomore slumps are not uncommon. Teams always "can" draft whatever position they wish,regardless of the previous year's pick. Teams choose not to at QB because only 1 starts. NFL locker room culture also dictates that their only be one guy. Teams do not alternate QB's like baseball pitchers or NHL goalies. Good luck changing that. QB's also do not generally come in and perform as well as they did in college. They usually need playing time to develop. If teams were allotted say,15 draft picks, more QB's would be selected. The salary rules were changed not to give teams the ability to draft consecutive QB's in the 1st round, but so they weren't killed for years in "cap jail" after they inevitably release QB's that don't pan out after 3 or 4 years. It takes no less time to be sure about a QB than it used to, it just makes it financially viable to move on when the time comes. These concepts make sense to most fans, who realize a high pick at QB for the Bills in 2014 would be a major surprise. This is because EJM has NOT been worse than most 1st year QB's and by typical NFL standards will likely be given the chance to keep the job next season. Not because the FO is worried about "looking bad". An available proven vet QB would be less surprising, as they have an NFL track record, unlike some newly drafted college player, who would likely be no better than EJM was in his 1st season. That 1st round pick will be used on a player that is expected to start on opening day. For the QB debate, I think that we can all agree that Steve Young was an OUTSTANDING NFL QB, right? In Young's first two NFL Seasons (after playing in the USFL), he threw 11 TDs and 21 INTS f with about a 53% completion rate or a Tampa Bay team at about the same level of this year's Bills. I will definitely grant that defenses were allowed more latitude then, but Young also had at least a year of pro experience in the USFL before these two seasons. As much as some here don't want to believe it, it DOES take some time for college QBs to come up to speed in the NFL. I don't know how EJ Manuel will turn out, but I've seen enough to think he warrants AT LEAST one more year before deciding whether he "has it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This game is not hel ping Mack's draft status. UB is getting completely b*tch slapped by lowly SD State and it is highlighting UB's lower-tier athletic ability. To be sure, it is not all Mack's fault and if he shows well at the combine, he could still go high, but this game is exposing the MAC competition... For the QB debate, I think that we can all agree that Steve Young was an OUTSTANDING NFL QB, right? In Young's first two NFL Seasons (after playing in the USFL), he threw 11 TDs and 21 INTS f with about a 53% completion rate or a Tampa Bay team at about the same level of this year's Bills. I will definitely grant that defenses were allowed more latitude then, but Young also had at least a year of pro experience in the USFL before these two seasons. As much as some here don't want to believe it, it DOES take some time for college QBs to come up to speed in the NFL. I don't know how EJ Manuel will turn out, but I've seen enough to think he warrants AT LEAST one more year before deciding whether he "has it". In order to make it a debate, we would have to forget the vast difference between Young and Manuel coming out of college. Young was the best QB in the country and second in Heisman voting. EJ was the best QB at Florida St since Chris Weinke. We would also have to ignore that the Bills have far more talent than those Tampa Bay teams did. So, I guess if we ignore all that, you can go ahead and debate some parallel between Young and Manuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 In order to make it a debate, we would have to forget the vast difference between Young and Manuel coming out of college. Young was the best QB in the country and second in Heisman voting. EJ was the best QB at Florida St since Chris Weinke. We would also have to ignore that the Bills have far more talent than those Tampa Bay teams did. So, I guess if we ignore all that, you can go ahead and debate some parallel between Young and Manuel. What talent on offense would that be? An injured CJ Spiller? An old, but game Freddy Jackson? Stevie "stone hands" Johnson? How about a 2nd yr WR who has started every game and has a total of 18 catches in 14 games (and 0 in the last 3)? Oh, maybe it is the other 2 rookie WRs who play most of the snaps. The OL has a good C and LT and beyond that is made up of journeymen (the 3 other starters picked up off waivers). I am NOT saying that Manuel is or is not the answer, but to write him off after an injury riddled rookie season when he had one decent veteran WR (Johnson) and a half-decent TE coming off knee surgery, and a bunch of rookie WRs seems too soon to me. If you write him off this soon, I suspect they'll be cycling through QBs for the next decade. Fact of the matter is that most rookie QBs struggle mightily. Only the RARE rookies come in and play very well and even then it doesn't always end well for them (ck RG3 - he may still be very good, but if he were playing in Buffalo this year - you would not have been happy with his performance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 I wasn't that impressed with his game against Ohio but I heard he was epic against Ohio State. I'm surprised that he's generally viewed as a Top 10 prospect at this moment. Of course the vetting process is very very early yet. Got the game on, thanks Promo. He did look good against OSU, but that was the first game of the season. OSU was not at their peak performance. Just like UB/UGA the year before. They make it a good game against a name school that is playing like they just rolled out of bed. This bowl game, and really 3 of the last 4 UB games, have been an eye opener. It's obvious they were the product of one of the easiest schedules in NCAA history. Yes, this game is doing nothing for Mack's stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 He did look good against OSU, but that was the first game of the season. OSU was not at their peak performance. Just like UB/UGA the year before. They make it a good game against a name school that is playing like they just rolled out of bed. This bowl game, and really 3 of the last 4 UB games, have been an eye opener. It's obvious they were the product of one of the easiest schedules in NCAA history. Yes, this game is doing nothing for Mack's stock. The offense going three and out and turning the ball over doesn't help either. Mack is also being dbl and triple teamed. This will not happen if he lands with the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Mack looked pretty average tonight and didn't show anything that would put him in the first rnd of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Section242 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Saw really nothing from him today. Anything but oline or rb in the 1st and I wouldn't hate the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) He did look good against OSU, but that was the first game of the season. OSU was not at their peak performance. Just like UB/UGA the year before. They make it a good game against a name school that is playing like they just rolled out of bed. This bowl game, and really 3 of the last 4 UB games, have been an eye opener. It's obvious they were the product of one of the easiest schedules in NCAA history. Yes, this game is doing nothing for Mack's stock. I agree but still Mack looked sooo good in that game. OSU improved tremendously throughout the year, especially the OL, though. He abused the freshman RT who was trying to block him, Taylor Decker. I didn't mean to confuse you. I was never trying to compare the skills of Evans to Hardy, I was comparing the situation of drafting the "tall" Hardy over a smaller guy with far more exceptional WR skills. Watkins and Evans both seemingly have well established 1st round grades. So my point is that if the Bills are going to pick WR in the 1st, and both Watkins and Evans are on the board, then they should pick the guy with far more exceptional skills which IMO would be Watkins with no hesitation. As for the better all-around prospect you might be wrong there, the first three draft websites I went to have Watkins rated higher than Evans and it's not that close... CBS Sports - Watkins #6 / Evans #13 http://www.cbssports...er-year-for-ots GBN Report - Watkins #6 / Evans #11 http://gbnreport.com/top100.html DraftTek - Watkins #4 / Evans #11 http://www.drafttek.com/ BTW, Evans could be a nice consolation prize if the Raiders pick Watkins (which they''ll probably do)...LOL I like Evans, just not nearly as much as Watkins. OK Evans must have dropped since I last looked but didn't look at any of these three sites you put up. Looked at some others and Watkins as high as 4th, Evans as low as 24th. I wouldn't take Watkins that high (where the Bills will be in the top 10) because he isn't all of what Watkins is AND 6'4. But I wouldn't take Evans there either if he wasn't 6'4 AND all of what Watkins is. Not sure if that makes sense but my point is I don't advocate taking a WR in the top 10 unless he is Calvin Johnson. I want an Alshon Jeffery, who was drafted in the 2nd. If you scout well you can get these guys later. I personally hope the Bills go the "boring" route and draft a RT in the 1st, maybe one who could also play G. Regarding Watkins, I fully expect him to have an enormous bowl game. OSU's pass D has been historically bad. He will be going against the Buckeyes' best corner who is also being projected as #1 pick - Bradley Robey - however Robey's coverage skills have just not been good this year. He is a speed demon (fastest guy on the team) and amazing athlete (sweet on the corner blitz) but he gives up sooooo many yards it is just uncomfortable. Partly due to OSU losing the starting safety and leader on D in game 5 to injury and have not recovered. Could be a very long night for Robey on Watkins. Edited December 22, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 What talent on offense would that be? An injured CJ Spiller? An old, but game Freddy Jackson? Stevie "stone hands" Johnson? How about a 2nd yr WR who has started every game and has a total of 18 catches in 14 games (and 0 in the last 3)? Oh, maybe it is the other 2 rookie WRs who play most of the snaps. The OL has a good C and LT and beyond that is made up of journeymen (the 3 other starters picked up off waivers). I am NOT saying that Manuel is or is not the answer, but to write him off after an injury riddled rookie season when he had one decent veteran WR (Johnson) and a half-decent TE coming off knee surgery, and a bunch of rookie WRs seems too soon to me. If you write him off this soon, I suspect they'll be cycling through QBs for the next decade. Fact of the matter is that most rookie QBs struggle mightily. Only the RARE rookies come in and play very well and even then it doesn't always end well for them (ck RG3 - he may still be very good, but if he were playing in Buffalo this year - you would not have been happy with his performance). I'm not writing him off. I'm saying that comparing him to Young at the same point in their careers is absurd. Young was a top college QB coming out. CJ and Freddy are a top 4 running game. If the rest of the offense is as talentless as you claim, EJ is doomed. Write him off now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) I would love to see the Bills land the the 6'5" WR Evans from A&M Edited December 22, 2013 by BuffaloFan68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeisterHollow Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 This is a post that makes quick sense of the situation! If you don't know whether you've got a franchise QB you keep drafting until you do. That doesn't mean you trade up to get one, or even pick one with your 1st pick - there might be capable QB's in the second round, or you might trade back up into the 1st, or from the 3rd back into the 2nd, for one. My point - we still need to add talent to that position, since we don't know if what we have now is capable taking us to the playoffs. I'm thinking a guy like Boyd would be a nice pick up. Of course, if for some reason we had a shot at one of the top 3 QB's in the first round, I'd surely consider going that route, too. After all, QB is usually the only position you cannot upgrade through F.A. - every other position you can pay to get proven talent at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 If Mack was at any other school besides UB this board and the whole town would shat themselves if he was the Bills first round pick. Yeah I know Jerry Rice came from a small school. The draft is a crap shoot, taking big fast guys from major conferences increases your chances of getting it right - and trading down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 OK Evans must have dropped since I last looked but didn't look at any of these three sites you put up. Looked at some others and Watkins as high as 4th, Evans as low as 24th. I wouldn't take Watkins that high (where the Bills will be in the top 10) because he isn't all of what Watkins is AND 6'4. But I wouldn't take Evans there either if he wasn't 6'4 AND all of what Watkins is. Not sure if that makes sense but my point is I don't advocate taking a WR in the top 10 unless he is Calvin Johnson. I want an Alshon Jeffery, who was drafted in the 2nd. If you scout well you can get these guys later. I personally hope the Bills go the "boring" route and draft a RT in the 1st, maybe one who could also play G. Regarding Watkins, I fully expect him to have an enormous bowl game. OSU's pass D has been historically bad. He will be going against the Buckeyes' best corner who is also being projected as #1 pick - Bradley Robey - however Robey's coverage skills have just not been good this year. He is a speed demon (fastest guy on the team) and amazing athlete (sweet on the corner blitz) but he gives up sooooo many yards it is just uncomfortable. Partly due to OSU losing the starting safety and leader on D in game 5 to injury and have not recovered. Could be a very long night for Robey on Watkins. I want the Bills to take the best player available and hoping that lines up with either a stud #1 WR or stud OL. However, if something crazy happens and a very highly rated defender like Clowney or Barr falls because a lot of QBs are getting picked ahead of them, then by all means pick him and make our defense an elite one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Mack looked pretty average tonight and didn't show anything that would put him in the first rnd of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 Mack looked pretty average tonight and didn't show anything that would put him in the first rnd of the draft. Which could be a good thing. Frankly I was hoping we'd take him in the 2nd if still there. May take a year or 3 but I think he'll develop into a pretty good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted December 22, 2013 Share Posted December 22, 2013 (edited) Mack looked pretty average tonight and didn't show anything that would put him in the first rnd of the draft. Bowl games are not that big of an indicator.... scouts have so much more detail on these guys already built up and it will continue until May. The game plan was most certainly to run away from him and triple team him with blockers. UB doesn;t have a ton of talent beside him. NFL OCs can't do this as there are guys as good as him they need to worry about too. The Senior Bowl is specifically for the scouts and that will be more important for him. That said, Kiper has him at #4 on the big board as of yesterday - i think that is much too high. That doesn't take into acount team drafting position/need. I anticipate him going mid to late 1st rd. Edited December 22, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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