Big Turk Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 Great post. Bledsoe is an apt comparison.... and once again, stats are for losers. Any savvy fan who has actually watched him play instead of reading his fantasy numbers would want no part of him. He's better than Manuel will be for at least two or three years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) He's better than Manuel will be for at least two or three years... He might be (what did you see this year that leads you to believe that, just curious), but keep in mind, if he came to Buffalo, he would be dealing with a much different (less talented?) team than the one he tanked with this year in Houston. I think most teams, especially ones that find themselves with needing to draft a QB in the first round, have a lot of other issues as well...they likely have the realistic expectations (the team, not the fans) that he isn't going to play as well as an experienced bet, right out of the chute. I agree with you on one thing, if the Bills trade/sign Schaub, and he is the starter for "two or three years", than Manuel will not be playing, and not getting any better. Edited December 9, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdk Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Schaub, in many ways, is like Ryan Fitzpatrick, but on a better team... IMO, Schaub has been the thing that has held the Texans back over the years, from making that next step... he can put up numbers (or he could, who knows what is up with him now?), and yeah, might be a decent back-up for somebody..but unless you are pretty much admitting that Manuel is not your guy (some fans may be at that point, but I don't think the Bills are), Schaub may not be the best guy for that job. And, honeslty, if Schaub is content with being a back-up, I think he would target a team in better shape than the Bills... True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBills51 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Should have clarified the Fitzpatrick commnet...perhaps Bledsoe is a better comparison (though I think that underrates Bledsoe in his prime). I don't mean that they have the same skill set, necessarily, but that. as the cliche goes, they can do some things well, but they do just don't win games... Many Texans fans (I live amongst them), have viewed Schaub as being amongst the teams greatest weaknesses for a couple of years now...he finally starting imploding for all the world to see this season...I think fantasy football tends to skewer how we see a lot of these guys...fantasy and reality, in these cases, are not always the same. When Schaub was going well, he had a really good o-line, a great running game, and an elite wide receiver, not to mention an elite defense for a few years there...put him on the Bills and I don't think you see the same kind of numbers as you saw in Houston, before this season... I would argue that any team who doesn't have a top ten QB thinks that the QB is their biggest weakness, and in Houston's case, it's possible that Schaub was indeed that guy. However, I think Schaub is right around the top 15 range, where on any given Sunday, he can give his team a chance to win. For example, last year they were knocked out of the playoffs because their vaunted defense gave up 41 pts to the Patriots. Schaub threw for 343 yds and had 2 TDs...he wasn't the problem. Now, I will agree that it's unlikely Schaub would have the same numbers on the Bills (due primarily to not having a WR like Andre Johnson); however, I believe that if Fitz could throw for 3,800 with a roster with even less talent (David Nelson & Naaman Roosevelt were the Bills #2 and #3 WRs), then I don't think Schaub would do too bad. Basically, he is a Fitzpatrick, but with a slightly better skill set. And where this team is at right now, I think they could be very similar to the Chiefs with the right player utilization. The Chiefs have a solid running game, an aggressive defense, and they get proper game management out of the QB position. Not too unlike the Bills, that is, except for the QB. Which also brings me to the point that this team would probably still be in the hunt if Andy Reid were the Bills head coach. But that is an argument that should be discussed in a different topic. Edited December 9, 2013 by DaBills51 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Schaub has been bad in Houston this year, and could be had for not much, maybe a 4th or 5th round pick. I consider this year an abberation as he had posted 5 straight 90+ QB Rating seasons prior to this year and led the league in pass yards one of those with almost 4800 yards. He would be several steps up from EJ Manuel at this point and would instantly do AT LEAST as much as Carson Palmer did for the Cardinals this year, which is make them a potential playoff team, especially with the D we have now... Screw the idea of "we have to have our guy at QB" all new GMs have and get a guy who can help us win NOW!! This team is good enough to win NOW without a QB hindering our games... they will probably cut him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 I would argue that any team who doesn't have a top ten QB thinks that the QB is their biggest weakness, and in Houston's case, it's possible that Schaub was indeed that guy. However, I think Schaub is right around the top 15 range, where on any given Sunday, he can give his team a chance to win. For example, last year they were knocked out of the playoffs because their vaunted defense gave up 41 pts to the Patriots. Schaub threw for 343 yds and had 2 TDs...he wasn't the problem. Now, I will agree that it's unlikely Schaub would have the same numbers on the Bills (due primarily to not having a WR like Andre Johnson); however, I believe that if Fitz could throw for 3,800 with a roster with even less talent (David Nelson & Naaman Roosevelt were the Bills #2 and #3 WRs), then I don't think Schaub would do too bad. Basically, he is a Fitzpatrick, but with a slightly better skill set. And where this team is at right now, I think they could be very similar to the Chiefs with the right player utilization. The Chiefs have a solid running game, an aggressive defense, and they get proper game management out of the QB position. Not too unlike the Bills, that is, except for the QB. Which also brings me to the point that this team would probably still be in the hunt if Andy Reid were the Bill's head coach. But that is an argument that should be discussed in a different topic. Yeah, I am not predicting Schaub wins a superbowl here but he definitely is an upgrade over Manuel right now... We have plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball being hindered by defenses showing zero respect for Manuel's ability to beat them and loading the box to stop the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Yeah, I am not predicting Schaub wins a superbowl here but he definitely is an upgrade over Manuel right now... We have plenty of talent on the offensive side of the ball being hindered by defenses showing zero respect for Manuel's ability to beat them and loading the box to stop the run. He may be an upgrade, however slight...but did you see Schaub play in 2013? Two thousand and thirteen? Bringing Matt Schab in to start over Manuel, in 2014 would only insure that Manuel doesn't make any progress, and may give a us a QB who we can waste more time on, thinking he is going to put up the numbers he did 2 years ago on a team with far more depth and talent... perhaps you are right, nobody thinks Manuel can beat them...but he has three wins over decent defenses this year, and played a key role in all of those wins. He didn't play in 4 games, so not every loss is on him. I will be the first to agree, Manuels' accuracy has to improve. I keep seeing people hear saying that his accuracy "won't" or "can't" improve, as if they know that to be fact. Other QB's have become more accurate with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 He may be an upgrade, however slight...but did you see Schaub play in 2013? Two thousand and thirteen? Bringing Matt Schab in to start over Manuel, in 2014 would only insure that Manuel doesn't make any progress, and may give a us a QB who we can waste more time on, thinking he is going to put up the numbers he did 2 years ago on a team with far more depth and talent... perhaps you are right, nobody thinks Manuel can beat them...but he has three wins over decent defenses this year, and played a key role in all of those wins. He didn't play in 4 games, so not every loss is on him. I will be the first to agree, Manuels' accuracy has to improve. I keep seeing people hear saying that his accuracy "won't" or "can't" improve, as if they know that to be fact. Other QB's have become more accurate with time. i havent seen much, but like i said upthread -- over 62% completions, 250 yards per game (despite several not being complete games) and 1 td 1 int leads me to believe the ESPN storyline is atleast a little worse than his actual play. some game costing mistakes, surely and im not trying to let him off the hook but it seems some minor tweaks and he could look respectable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) I think getting Schaub(or a QB similar) would be one of the worst mistakes a team can make. Ignoring the specifics of Schaub's contract status atm(which is relatively high), teams that lock themselves into a QB who is in the above average-good range is a virtual guarantee of not winning the SB. It comes down to a simple question. Would you rather be a regular playoff contender every year and never be good enough to win the SB.....or would you rather languish in mediocrity for however long it takes to find that illusive great QB(or very good QB who has streaks of greatness)? Edited December 9, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Cutler or die ! Schaub is toast. Are you serious? You really want Cutler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 If they address the QB position, I'm thinking Cousins might be worth a gander if available. QB competition would be healthy next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) Shaub was never as good as his stats, and isn't now as bad as his reputation. If Shaub was the only problem with the Texans, and they really were a solid team otherwise, it seems they might have at least won a single game since he got pulled. If he came at a reasonable price you could do a lot worse for a veteran QB. Are you serious? You really want Cutler? He'd be the best QB to sport a Bills uni this century. Edited December 9, 2013 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I think getting Schaub(or a QB similar) would be one of the worst mistakes a team can make. Ignoring the specifics of Schaub's contract status atm(which is relatively high), teams that lock themselves into a QB who is in the above average-good range is a virtual guarantee of not winning the SB. It comes down to a simple question. Would you rather be a regular playoff contender every year and never be good enough to win the SB.....or would you rather languish in mediocrity for however long it takes to find that illusive great QB(or very good QB who has streaks of greatness)? the only thing id say, is it wouldnt be a long term answer - it would be as a backup, an emergency fill in should EJ collapse, and possibly a bridge to the next guy in that situation. schaub will be 33(?) at the start of next season. i wouldnt consider him a guy that will keep us stuck in the playoff contention long term (though there would be worse problems to have - a decade and a half without, youve got to start a winning culture somehow) Shaub was never as good as his stats, and isn't now as bad as his reputation. If Shaub was the only problem with the Texans, and they really were a solid team otherwise, it seems they might have at least won a single game game since he got pulled. If he came at a reasonable price you could do a lot worse for a veteran QB. roughly what im trying to say - too much credit for the wins, too much for the collapse. really, if you pull his worst game this year, id venture his stats are pretty close to his career averages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Would you rather be a regular playoff contender every year and never be good enough to win the SB.....or would you rather languish in mediocrity for however long it takes to find that illusive great QB(or very good QB who has streaks of greatness)? Give me solid competitor in playoffs every year over languishing one more year let alone "however long it takes" in the hopes of getting to the Super Bowl "someday". We haven't been in the playoffs so long I think some have forgotten how great a playoff season is. It means winning meaningful games in December. Talking playoffs in December instead of next years draft position. It means going to Christmas parties and talking about dem Bills instead of hoping the topic doesn't come up. It means watching a playoff game or 2 with the Bills in it in January. That's what I want. If Schaub can get us to the playoffs next year, I'm all in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 the only thing id say, is it wouldnt be a long term answer - it would be as a backup, an emergency fill in should EJ collapse, and possibly a bridge to the next guy in that situation. schaub will be 33(?) at the start of next season. i wouldnt consider him a guy that will keep us stuck in the playoff contention long term (though there would be worse problems to have - a decade and a half without, youve got to start a winning culture somehow) .... You are right with Schaub......I neglected to factor his age into things(Yes, 33 next season). He doesn't fully fit in with the assertion I made. His contract however is exorbitant for a backup but would be very manageable for the next two seasons if he was starting(or mainly starting)......and with a trade, cutting him would see no dead cap hit for us either. The fear would be though, that after 2 seasons he plays well for us(and we have no legit QB to step in and take his place)......thus at the age of 34(2015 season) we make the error of giving him an extension(till he plays at age 37[2018]). Give me solid competitor in playoffs every year over languishing one more year let alone "however long it takes" in the hopes of getting to the Super Bowl "someday". We haven't been in the playoffs so long I think some have forgotten how great a playoff season is. It means winning meaningful games in December. Talking playoffs in December instead of next years draft position. It means going to Christmas parties and talking about dem Bills instead of hoping the topic doesn't come up. It means watching a playoff game or 2 with the Bills in it in January. That's what I want. If Schaub can get us to the playoffs next year, I'm all in. I'm pretty much right there with you on that. I think all Bills fans would be desperate for a playoff appearance. I just don't want us to exchange long term mediocrity for long term good(but not great) performances. Though I desperately want the Bills to make the playoffs and break the drought, I also desperately want to see us back at the top of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 9, 2013 Author Share Posted December 9, 2013 You are right with Schaub......I neglected to factor his age into things(Yes, 33 next season). He doesn't fully fit in with the assertion I made. His contract however is exorbitant for a backup but would be very manageable for the next two seasons if he was starting(or mainly starting)......and with a trade, cutting him would see no dead cap hit for us either. The fear would be though, that after 2 seasons he plays well for us(and we have no legit QB to step in and take his place)......thus at the age of 34(2015 season) we make the error of giving him an extension(till he plays at age 37[2018]). I'm pretty much right there with you on that. I think all Bills fans would be desperate for a playoff appearance. I just don't want us to exchange long term mediocrity for long term good(but not great) performances. Though I desperately want the Bills to make the playoffs and break the drought, I also desperately want to see us back at the top of the league. So do I, but we have to start somewhere...getting us to the playoffs for the first time in 15 years WOULD be like winning the Super Bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How do you guys seriously expect any QB to have success in Buffalo behind that O line. Besides, what decent QB in their right mind would want to play in Buffalo... with a money man at the helm...with ownership that could change at any time...for a bunch of rookie coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 How do you guys seriously expect any QB to have success in Buffalo behind that O line. Besides, what decent QB in their right mind would want to play in Buffalo... with a money man at the helm...with ownership that could change at any time...for a bunch of rookie coaches. That O line had been doing a pretty good job prior to last week. I don't think it reasonable to base all future expectations upon their worst performance(since inserting Legursky). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeegreat Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I wouldn't trade for him as I think he will be released after the season. But I still believe in EJ he just needs time and a TE, also a real #1 WR. That being said if you want to sit EJ next year to learn then I'd rather sign Vick who will be available too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBUffalo Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Shut the !@#$ up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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