Did the ball break the plane on the Marvin Jones "TD"

[Meark]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfz4JViRkoA

Clearly a lateral.

 

I don't think anyone needs a reminder.. thanks.

[PolishDave]

I think something else that should be reviewed by the NFL during the off season is whether a play like that should count.

 

Many times you will see the refs giving forward progress to a receiver even when the receiver was running a come back route.

 

If the receiver is running back towards the quarterback, then that receiver is willingly moving the ball backwards. How is it any different than a running back running backwards or a QB running backwards? If they willingly move the ball backward towards the line of scrimmage after a catch, then I believe that forward progress should not count. The ball should be dead wherever they are finally tackled or wherever they go out of bounds.

 

Next year and going forward, In a case like this play, I think the touchdown should not count. The receiver moved the ball out of the end zone on his own effort. His body was in motion back that way when the ball was caught. It is not like his forward progress was halted by a tackler.

 

Just a thought. It probably doesn't happen in the end zone that much to make a huge deal out of it. But a touchdown can be a game breaker.

[Ivan Drago]

Can't believe people don't know the rules for a touchdown and still want to continue to argue. Look up the rules.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

You are right, the reffing was bad. But it was bad for both teams. Taking the red and blue glasses off allows one to see that.

 

But since the Bilz lost it clearly hurt us more?

[1B4IDie]

Can't believe people don't know the rules for a touchdown and still want to continue to argue. Look up the rules.

Couldn't agree more.

[NoSaint]

I think something else that should be reviewed by the NFL during the off season is whether a play like that should count.

 

Many times you will see the refs giving forward progress to a receiver even when the receiver was running a come back route.

 

If the receiver is running back towards the quarterback, then that receiver is willingly moving the ball backwards. How is it any different than a running back running backwards or a QB running backwards? If they willingly move the ball backward towards the line of scrimmage after a catch, then I believe that forward progress should not count. The ball should be dead wherever they are finally tackled or wherever they go out of bounds.

 

Next year and going forward, In a case like this play, I think the touchdown should not count. The receiver moved the ball out of the end zone on his own effort. His body was in motion back that way when the ball was caught. It is not like his forward progress was halted by a tackler.

 

Just a thought. It probably doesn't happen in the end zone that much to make a huge deal out of it. But a touchdown can be a game breaker.

 

while i get the concept in the field of play, the instant the ball is caught in the endzone the play is dead, regardless of the forward progress. the receivers direction doesnt matter because the play is already over once the catch is completed in that case.

 

[12Kachy]

This post can go on to any thread.

If you don't care about the thread. Don't post in the thread.

 

Well actually, this can not go on any thread. It would not make any sense anywhere else. "Who cares, on to the next obstacle?". How would that fit any other post on here. "Bills sign Matt Flynn" Who cares? Well actually alot of people. The game is over man. Don't dwell on it, focus on the future. The Refs said he scored so it's points on the board and thus a loss. No one should have invisioned a Bills deep playoff or Super Bowl run this year. If they make the wild card, I would be super excited. But to dwell on one game in which the Def played terrible compared to the previous games, is just ridiculous.

[Coach55]

Official Rules - the ball needs to break the plane of the goal line - see d below.

 

Section 2 Touchdown

TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

Article 1 Touchdown Plays. A touchdown is scored when:

(a) the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner who has

advanced from the field of play; or

(b) a ball in possession of an airborne runner is on, above, or behind the plane of the goal line, and some part of the ball

passed over or inside the pylon; or

© a ball in player possession touches the pylon, provided that, after contact by an opponent, no part of the player’s

body, except his hands or feet, struck the ground before the ball touched the pylon; or

(d) any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line; or

(e) the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act.

SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES

(1) The ball is automatically dead when it is in legal possession of a player and is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line.

(2) The player is attempting to catch a pass, the ball is not dead, and a touchdown is not scored, until the receiver

completes the catch. See Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7.

A.R. 11.1 Third-and-goal on B2. Runner A1 goes to the goal line with the ball over the plane of the goal line. He is tackled, fumbles,

and the defensive team recovers in the end zone.

Ruling: Touchdown. The ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on the opponent’s goal line.

A.R. 11.2 Second-and-10 on B18. Runner A1 takes handoff and runs down the sideline toward the goal line with the ball in his

outside arm. He crosses the goal line plane standing and gets his left foot down in the end zone with the ball to the

outside of the pylon.

Ruling: Touchdown. Part of the ball crossing over or inside the pylon only applies to an airborne runner who lands out of

bounds.

[1B4IDie]

Well actually, this can not go on any thread. It would not make any sense anywhere else. "Who cares, on to the next obstacle?". How would that fit any other post on here. "Bills sign Matt Flynn" Who cares? Well actually alot of people. The game is over man. Don't dwell on it, focus on the future. The Refs said he scored so it's points on the board and thus a loss. No one should have invisioned a Bills deep playoff or Super Bowl run this year. If they make the wild card, I would be super excited. But to dwell on one game in which the Def played terrible compared to the previous games, is just ridiculous.

 

 

Obviously other people care.

You do not.

So you do not post in a thread where you do not care.

 

It is real simple.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I'm still scratching my head as to why it seems ONLY Bills TD's are reviewed and their opponents don't.

[Drop Kick Flutie]

I don't think anyone needs a reminder.. thanks.

guy I replied to evidently did

[napmaster]

Official Rules - the ball needs to break the plane of the goal line - see d below.

 

Section 2 Touchdown

TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

 

A.R. 11.2 Second-and-10 on B18. Runner A1 takes handoff and runs down the sideline toward the goal line with the ball in his

outside arm. He crosses the goal line plane standing and gets his left foot down in the end zone with the ball to the

outside of the pylon.

Ruling: Touchdown. Part of the ball crossing over or inside the pylon only applies to an airborne runner who lands out of

bounds.

 

I've been "read-only" here for years, but this thread forced me to post. A.R. 11.2 gives the example where the ball does NOT get into the end zone, but the runner does. He has established himself in the endzone and the ruling is touchdown.

[CodeMonkey]

I'm still scratching my head as to why it seems ONLY Bills TD's are reviewed and their opponents don't.

Because you are a Bills fan 4-ever.

[1B4IDie]

 

 

I've been "read-only" here for years, but this thread forced me to post. A.R. 11.2 gives the example where the ball does NOT get into the end zone, but the runner does. He has established himself in the endzone and the ruling is touchdown.

Incorrect.

As we learned by the blown punt call the pylon is considered part of the end zone.

 

In 11.2 the ball crosses the plane and is to the outside of the pylon which is part of the end zone.

 

If it's outside meaning out of bounds than it past the pylon but is hovering in the arm over the out of bounds white line.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Why So Serious?

[CodeMonkey]

Official Rules - the ball needs to break the plane of the goal line - see d below.

 

Section 2 Touchdown

TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

Article 1 Touchdown Plays. A touchdown is scored when:

(a) the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner who has

advanced from the field of play; or

(b) a ball in possession of an airborne runner is on, above, or behind the plane of the goal line, and some part of the ball

passed over or inside the pylon; or

© a ball in player possession touches the pylon, provided that, after contact by an opponent, no part of the player’s

body, except his hands or feet, struck the ground before the ball touched the pylon; or

(d) any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line; or

(e) the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act.

SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES

(1) The ball is automatically dead when it is in legal possession of a player and is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line.

(2) The player is attempting to catch a pass, the ball is not dead, and a touchdown is not scored, until the receiver

completes the catch. See Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7.

A.R. 11.1 Third-and-goal on B2. Runner A1 goes to the goal line with the ball over the plane of the goal line. He is tackled, fumbles,

and the defensive team recovers in the end zone.

Ruling: Touchdown. The ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on the opponent’s goal line.

A.R. 11.2 Second-and-10 on B18. Runner A1 takes handoff and runs down the sideline toward the goal line with the ball in his

outside arm. He crosses the goal line plane standing and gets his left foot down in the end zone with the ball to the

outside of the pylon.

Ruling: Touchdown. Part of the ball crossing over or inside the pylon only applies to an airborne runner who lands out of

bounds.

I've been "read-only" here for years, but this thread forced me to post. A.R. 11.2 gives the example where the ball does NOT get into the end zone, but the runner does. He has established himself in the endzone and the ruling is touchdown.

Yeah it sometimes helps to read the entire thing you are quoting

[Tcali]

If his feet are in the end zone and he is established in the end zone, I believe the ball doesn't have to cross as he has already established himself. The ball only has to cross if he hasn't established himself across the goal line.

 

However, (and I couldn't tell because of the horrible replays at the stadium) it looked like he may have established himself, but his feet were not in as he caught the ball. I think your have to tip toe the end zone just like your out of bounds in order to keep your position in the end zone. It looked like they were out as he caught the ball.

 

Just my opinion.

completely wrong on that. sorry old chap

[Ivan Drago]

Official Rules - the ball needs to break the plane of the goal line - see d below.

 

Section 2 Touchdown

TOUCHDOWN PLAYS

Article 1 Touchdown Plays. A touchdown is scored when:

(a) the ball is on, above, or behind the plane of the opponents’ goal line and is in possession of a runner who has

advanced from the field of play; or

(b) a ball in possession of an airborne runner is on, above, or behind the plane of the goal line, and some part of the ball

passed over or inside the pylon; or

© a ball in player possession touches the pylon, provided that, after contact by an opponent, no part of the player’s

body, except his hands or feet, struck the ground before the ball touched the pylon; or

(d) any player who is legally inbounds catches or recovers a loose ball (3-2-3) that is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line; or

(e) the Referee awards a touchdown to a team that has been denied one by a palpably unfair act.

SUPPLEMENTAL NOTES

(1) The ball is automatically dead when it is in legal possession of a player and is on, above, or behind the opponent’s

goal line.

(2) The player is attempting to catch a pass, the ball is not dead, and a touchdown is not scored, until the receiver

completes the catch. See Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7.

A.R. 11.1 Third-and-goal on B2. Runner A1 goes to the goal line with the ball over the plane of the goal line. He is tackled, fumbles,

and the defensive team recovers in the end zone.

Ruling: Touchdown. The ball is automatically dead at the instant of legal player possession on the opponent’s goal line.

A.R. 11.2 Second-and-10 on B18. Runner A1 takes handoff and runs down the sideline toward the goal line with the ball in his

outside arm. He crosses the goal line plane standing and gets his left foot down in the end zone with the ball to the

outside of the pylon.

Ruling: Touchdown. Part of the ball crossing over or inside the pylon only applies to an airborne runner who lands out of

bounds.

 

Yep, the ball itself has to get into the endzone or break the plane of the endzone to be considered a touchdown, not just the players body.

 

The word touchdown comes from the olden days when the player had to physicaly touch the ball down onto the playing field in the endzone. Hence the word touchdown.

[TheMadCap]

We are arguing different things here guys. I KNOW the rule, apparently not all NFL refs know the rule, because they call TDs on occasion when the receiver is in the end zone and the ball doesn't break the plane. They are incorrectly calling TD. It happens...

[CodeMonkey]

A.R. 11.2 Second-and-10 on B18. Runner A1 takes handoff and runs down the sideline toward the goal line with the ball in his

outside arm. He crosses the goal line plane standing and gets his left foot down in the end zone with the ball to the

outside of the pylon.

Ruling: Touchdown. Part of the ball crossing over or inside the pylon only applies to an airborne runner who lands out of

bounds.

We are arguing different things here guys. I KNOW the rule, apparently not all NFL refs know the rule, because they call TDs on occasion when the receiver is in the end zone and the ball doesn't break the plane. They are incorrectly calling TD. It happens...

Did you see 11.2 above? The ball never crosses the goal line (breaks the plane) but it is a TD.

[CardinalScotts]

You are right, the reffing was bad. But it was bad for both teams. Taking the red and blue glasses off allows one to see that.

 

people always say that but in this case your way off...the officials sucked and it killed Buffalo, the Bengals had three personal foul penalties that the tv guys thought were going against cincy- and didnt. Again not my opinion theres