EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 In PPP the fox has to run the hen house because you get people coming in there speaking ignorant beliefs vs. facts. You have the drive-by posters who try to taunt the normal bar flies and that usually gets ignored. But, what you are talking about is commonly misunderstood. They agree with each other because they are educated on the topic at hand and do not jump to conclusions or tolerate BS. A great running example of this is the Trayvon Martin thread. Calling someone a retard, ignorant, a douchebag, a tiny representation of what I could pull up as examples of this name calling, is not being educated or "not tolerating BS", it is being a bully and actually goes against the rules of conduct here. However, since it is so routine and rarely is addressed as it is PPP, to state that it is fully regulated is fallacy. It is in fact not regulated by rules of conduct, but rule by intimidation is the norm. This is why I revel in TSW because that sort of rule is not tolerated, and the moderators address it as Simon chose to do here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) In my honest opinion, no. But there have been plenty of complaints mentioned here about trolls, bad posters, etc, and yet, since I first mentioned the report button earlier in the thread, there have been only three, yes three, reports submitted. And that was on a game day, when tempers are running high. That might have something to do with this: You can submit a report for anything you want. Doesn't mean we'll agree, or act on it, but they all are looked at by at least one mod. So if someone reports a thread/post, they have no idea if anyone looked at it, what (if anything) was done about it, or why (or why not) something (or nothing) was done. If you have a Quality Control system that doen't have any feedback loop, you shouldn't be surprised when people don't use the QC system. The fact that you only got 3 reported posts speaks more to the QC system than it does the posters who don't use it. There have been countless trolls here over the years but the last person I definitively remember being banned was Spiked Lemonade. My assumption has long been that trolls are just tolerated. The point is, communication needs to be a two way street if you expect people to contribute to policing board quality. But if rules are somewhat arbitrary and largely enforced based on the personal whims or mood of the mod on duty, you shouldn't be surprised by the reaction. Don't get me wrong; no one is paying or getting paid here so people are well within their rights to tell complainers to take a hike, but I just bring it up in the spirit of the thread. Edited September 30, 2013 by KD in CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 In PPP the fox has to run the hen house because you get people coming in there speaking ignorant beliefs vs. facts. You have the drive-by posters who try to taunt the normal bar flies and that usually gets ignored. But, what you are talking about is commonly misunderstood. They agree with each other because they are educated on the topic at hand and do not jump to conclusions or tolerate BS. A great running example of this is the Trayvon Martin thread. Every time I have a look over at PPP it seems to be dominated by a bunch of like minded people who are happy to ridicule and abuse anyone voicing a different opinion to the norm there.....with a couple of masochistic regulars who voice opposition. It's not a hen house that would in any way encourage me to come lay an egg there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Every time I have a look over at PPP it seems to be dominated by a bunch of like minded people who are happy to ridicule and abuse anyone voicing a different opinion to the norm there.....with a couple of masochistic regulars who voice opposition. It's not a hen house that would in any way encourage me to come lay an egg there. Since I chose to abandon the Wild West of PPP many months ago, I was not surprised to see the same conduct continuing, and I saw what happened to you in those threads you participated in. I'm sorry that this happened to you, but it is commonplace and the reason why I had to say something is when I read of someone actually saying PPP was fully regulated and in no way like TSW- it went too far, I say. Don't worry though... as you can see, the commitment to TSW is high, and it is appreciated. Edited September 30, 2013 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 thats it. Tear down the site and start over. Let DC Tom and Jim in Anchorage run it. God help everybody. You will never forget me will you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Most people stay out of PPP because most people can't disagree intelligently, and PPP has an extremely low tolerance for idiots. I'd love to discuss an issue with someone who disagrees with me, and does so from an intelligent and knowledgeable point of view. But it's not my fault you can't. That kind of back and forth tends to only be sustainable in PPP for a handful of posts at the max when it exists at all. Usually some window licker is quick to interrupt and derail the potential conversation by setting themselves up as the party pinata. The same thing happens over here, the difference being that over here you're not allowed to get to the tasty pinata candy. I'm all for a harder line of moderation even if that means I get excused. I'd rather have a clear line not to cross that I can help hold others accountable to as well instead of a vague territory that allows people to push the boundaries back in to the current state that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No, I'd rather not deal with TSW, except on my own terms, because you guys don't have a workable solution in place. I hardly do TWS at all anymore, because 75% of the content is garbage. Fix that, and I'll help. We can't fix it if people don't let us know there is a post/poster that is causing an issue. As stated before, we can't read every single post on the board. If you don't use the report function, we're going to assume you have no issues. That might have something to do with this: So if someone reports a thread/post, they have no idea if anyone looked at it, what (if anything) was done about it, or why (or why not) something (or nothing) was done. If you have a Quality Control system that doen't have any feedback loop, you shouldn't be surprised when people don't use the QC system. The fact that you only got 3 reported posts speaks more to the QC system than it does the posters who don't use it. There have been countless trolls here over the years but the last person I definitively remember being banned was Spiked Lemonade. My assumption has long been that trolls are just tolerated. The point is, communication needs to be a two way street if you expect people to contribute to policing board quality. But if rules are somewhat arbitrary and largely enforced based on the personal whims or mood of the mod on duty, you shouldn't be surprised by the reaction. Don't get me wrong; no one is paying or getting paid here so people are well within their rights to tell complainers to take a hike, but I just bring it up in the spirit of the thread. I have in the past let someone know the result of their report, but not all the time, so in the future if I take care of a reported post/poster, I will attempt to let the reporter know via PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is totally not true, and calling people idiots or anything else is in fact name calling and should be addressed by moderators. That's not addressing ANYTHING from an intelligent point of view. You insult me even now because that is how it is done in PPP, and it is glaringly obvious. What's next, attacking dibs for also being an "idiot" and "unintelligent"? Don't take things personally. Sure there are little jabs here and there, but that's all part of the exchange between some folks. In the grand scheme of things, does DC Tom really matter in your life?? No, so let it roll off your back and move on. At least he offends everyone equally and is consistent about it...that's why I don't get a complex when he regurgitates information from Keith Olberman (his idol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'm all for a harder line of moderation even if that means I get excused. I'd rather have a clear line not to cross that I can help hold others accountable to as well instead of a vague territory that allows people to push the boundaries back in to the current state that we have. I'd love that in PPP, so then there would be more balance and healthier debate. Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 It's about time Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Don't take things personally. Sure there are little jabs here and there, but that's all part of the exchange between some folks. In the grand scheme of things, does DC Tom really matter in your life?? No, so let it roll off your back and move on. At least he offends everyone equally and is consistent about it...that's why I don't get a complex when he regurgitates information from Keith Olberman (his idol). He actually made my point for me... I couldn't have asked for a larger softball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Most people stay out of PPP because most people can't disagree intelligently, and PPP has an extremely low tolerance for idiots. I'd love to discuss an issue with someone who disagrees with me, and does so from an intelligent and knowledgeable point of view. But it's not my fault you can't. Most people cannot pose a response to disagree. That's their fault. PPP doesn't tolerate nonsense and that's how it should be with such adult topics. That is totally not true, and calling people idiots or anything else is in fact name calling and should be addressed by moderators. That's not addressing ANYTHING from an intelligent point of view. You insult me even now because that is how it is done in PPP, and it is glaringly obvious. What's next, attacking dibs for also being an "idiot" and "unintelligent"? PPP has its own rules of self moderation. PPP-lite goes on in OTW. Watch when a semi-political thread starts on OTW and then falls to the dungeon. PPP cleans it up quick. I do not remember what Dibs said but it was likely something illogical, not thought out, or ill-posed. Even if it was perfect and on the level of a Road Scholar someone disagreeing doesn't mean you give up. Maybe just back out of the topic and go from there. PPP is held against you. There is a really really strange fruit and veggie eating poster on this board who doesn't eat meat because he'd rather wear a dress - or something along that lines - in PPP. On this board and the rest I forget that issue. I am sure he forgives me for injuring sentient beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'd love that in PPP, so then there would be more balance and healthier debate. Good point! The moderation in PPP has seemingly been agreed to between the moderators and the majority of posters there. I'm strictly speaking about the main board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Most people cannot pose a response to disagree. That's their fault. PPP doesn't tolerate nonsense and that's how it should be with such adult topics. PPP has its own rules of self moderation. PPP-lite goes on in OTW. Watch when a semi-political thread starts on OTW and then falls to the dungeon. PPP cleans it up quick. I do not remember what Dibs said but it was likely something illogical, not thought out, or ill-posed. Even if it was perfect and on the level of a Road Scholar someone disagreeing doesn't mean you give up. Maybe just back out of the topic and go from there. PPP is held against you. There is a really really strange fruit and veggie eating poster on this board who doesn't eat meat because he'd rather wear a dress - or something along that lines - in PPP. On this board and the rest I forget that issue. I am sure he forgives me for injuring sentient beings. The problem is that almost EVERYONE who disagrees with the majority in PPP (and eloquence is NOT a requirement!!!) gets the massive dose of name calling and that goes against the Terms of Service: "you will not use TBD to post any material which is false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law." "Courtesy is contagious - Just become someone doesn't share your opinion - doesn't make them an idiot." Constant name calling of those who disagree with an opinion is abusive and harassing over time, and the reason why PPP has isolated itself. The second quote cannot be more plainly stated! Edited September 30, 2013 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The problem is that almost EVERYONE who disagrees with the majority in PPP (and eloquence is NOT a requirement!!!) gets the massive dose of name calling and that goes against the Terms of Service: "you will not use TBD to post any material which is false and defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law." "Courtesy is contagious - Just become someone doesn't share your opinion - doesn't make them an idiot." Constant name calling of those who disagree with an opinion is abusive and harassing over time, and the reason why PPP has isolated itself. Feel free to continue this topic over in PPP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 I'd love that in PPP, so then there would be more balance and healthier debate. Good point! I've found that the people who cry the most about the mean-spirited nature of PPP are those who come in talking **** rather than arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) I've found that the people who cry the most about the mean-spirited nature of PPP are those who come in talking **** rather than arguing. That is totally not true. Many members who have been here for years have been allowed to get away with what I have pointed out, and it doesn't make it right. The brilliant thing about a forum is that there is a RECORD which documents every post for all to see. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Edited September 30, 2013 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) That is totally not true. Many members who have been here for years have been allowed to get away with what I have pointed out, and it doesn't make it right. The brilliant thing about a forum is that there is a RECORD which documents every post for all to see. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. IN MY OPINION AND WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, you should let it go. You made your point (i.e. PPP is "Lord of the Flies on Meth")...some of us like it in doses and we return to TSW for football discussion. It's really all good when you think about it. Edited September 30, 2013 by BringBackFergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is totally not true. Many members who have been here for years have been allowed to get away with what I have pointed out, and it doesn't make it right. The brilliant thing about a forum is that there is a RECORD which documents every post for all to see. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. IT's more true then not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 That is totally not true. Many members who have been here for years have been allowed to get away with what I have pointed out, and it doesn't make it right. The brilliant thing about a forum is that there is a RECORD which documents every post for all to see. The proof is in the pudding, so to speak. I can think of a few long time TSW posters who have wandered over and started with both barrels blazing, saying little more than that whoever disagrees with their position is an immoral idiot, without even having the decency to support said position, & then crying foul when they get it served back on them. I recall you pulling a similar (though admittedly less egregious) stunt a few years back. There may be a poster or two who will launch into an unwarranted attack, but by and large, when it comes to civility you usually get what you give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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