K-9 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I don't think that has a ton do with it. I think the bigger issue is terrible 3rd down stoppage rate. Opposing teams are 23 for 50 so far -- 46 percent. That leads to more offensive plays for the opponent. The one bright spot is that they're allowing 5.3 ypp this year. That's not good, but it's better than the 5.6 in 2012 and 5.9 in 2011. ^ This, a thousand times this. They can't get out of their own way. And for a marginally talented group in the back 7 and new systems to begin with, there is NO margin for that kind of error. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It doesn't look better though, it's simply more aggressive. People like aggression so they'd rather go out on their sword than death by a 1000 cuts. Well, going out on the sword looks is what we saw yesterday. You get a nicely wrapped scapegoat in Rogers but its' the overall D that's the issue. It gives up running yards in huge chunks, gives up game winning big plays and gets called for far too many penalties. I swear, it's been so long since Bills fans have seen a good D they don't know what one looks like. But I think it's more than that. Schematically, we are stopping the run. Teams try to run and we stuff them what seems like 2/3rds of the time. In my view, it's the offense that is doing the defense in. And I have thye stats to back it up. Through 3 games, our defense leads the league in plays against it, and is in 2nd place (by a few seconds) in time of possession by the opposing offense. Our rushing yards per average isn't great-- 4.3 ypc, which is bottom 2/3rd in the league-- but how much you want to bet that that would improve with fewer defensive plays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It doesn't look better though, it's simply more aggressive. People like aggression so they'd rather go out on their sword than death by a 1000 cuts. Well, going out on the sword looks is what we saw yesterday. You get a nicely wrapped scapegoat in Rogers but its' the overall D that's the issue. It gives up running yards in huge chunks, gives up game winning big plays and gets called for far too many penalties. I swear, it's been so long since Bills fans have seen a good D they don't know what one looks like. I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I watched the entire game yesterday, and not once did I say, "they're killing us on the ground." I was actually shocked when I saw Powell's numbers. The running game absolutely did not beat the Bills yesterday, and they made key stops every time they were called for. All three of the Jets' TDs came courtesy of big plays in the passing game against #26. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 It doesn't look better though, it's simply more aggressive. People like aggression so they'd rather go out on their sword than death by a 1000 cuts. Well, going out on the sword looks is what we saw yesterday. You get a nicely wrapped scapegoat in Rogers but its' the overall D that's the issue. It gives up running yards in huge chunks, gives up game winning big plays and gets called for far too many penalties. I swear, it's been so long since Bills fans have seen a good D they don't know what one looks like. Aggressive does *look* better though. That's basically the point... it looks better, but in the end isn't actually performing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOFO Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Gilmore and McLovin eventually coming back will make a world of difference...I thought most of Marios sacks fromn the pervious week were due to coverage...the coverage is gone, now so are the sacks...MD us unimpressive to say the least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I watched the entire game yesterday, and not once did I say, "they're killing us on the ground." I was actually shocked when I saw Powell's numbers. The running game absolutely did not beat the Bills yesterday, and they made key stops every time they were called for. All three of the Jets' TDs came courtesy of big plays in the passing game against #26. Ring a ding ding ding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I'm sorry but you're just wrong. I watched the entire game yesterday, and not once did I say, "they're killing us on the ground." I was actually shocked when I saw Powell's numbers. The running game absolutely did not beat the Bills yesterday, and they made key stops every time they were called for. All three of the Jets' TDs came courtesy of big plays in the passing game against #26. Really? They were ripping off 5-20 yard runs with relative regularity. Sure, we made a few key stops on obvious running downs, but overall they had their way with us on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also: we acknowledge the Pettine's scheme mirrors Rex's and that it relies heavily on the corners' ability to neutralize receivers...so...what were people expecting with our top THREE guys out? Really? They were ripping off 5-20 yard runs with relative regularity. Sure, we made a few key stops on obvious running downs, but overall they had their way with us on the ground. No they weren't. That's just plain false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Also: we acknowledge the Pettine's scheme mirrors Rex's and that it relies heavily on the corners' ability to neutralize receivers...so...what were people expecting with our top THREE guys out? No they weren't. That's just plain false. They had something like 14 carries of 5 yards or more. How does that not qualify? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nostradumbass Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The Defence has made plays in every game and have made stops in key moments What the hell has the offence done this year?? With even an average offence we would be 2-1 at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) Really? They were ripping off 5-20 yard runs with relative regularity. Sure, we made a few key stops on obvious running downs, but overall they had their way with us on the ground. You didn't watch the same game I did. Look at the 4th quarter gamebook. After the TD to put the Jets up 27-20 the Bills forced three consecutive 3-and-outs to give the offense several more chances. If the Jets were "having their way" with the D they should certainly have been able to run out the clock, right? Sometimes statistics lie. This was such an example. The Jets running game did not win that game, or even really hurt the Bills. Edited September 23, 2013 by eball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 This is just my perception from watching the game, but I felt like the Jets were running at will for much of the game, especially on first and second down. Yes, the Bills made some stops on 3rd and 4th down, but there were so many outside runs of 8-12 yards that I lost count. And the record speaks for itself. The Jets ran for 169 yards without any true breakaways. I mean, that's bad, right? You didn't watch the same game I did. Look at the 4th quarter gamebook. After the TD to put the Jets up 27-20 the Bills forced three consecutive 3-and-outs to give the offense several more chances. If the Jets were "having their way" with the D they should certainly have been able to run out the clock, right? Sometimes statistics lie. This was such an example. The Jets running game did not win that game, or even really hurt the Bills. This is slightly deceiving because on the Jets final possession, they were simply trying to grind out clock and protect the ball. I wouldn't count that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 They had something like 14 carries of 5 yards or more. How does that not qualify? They key word--YOUR word--is "qualify." Listen to what eball is telling you. The Jets run game did not hurt us yesterday. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Overall the D is an issue? They're 100% on critical fourth and short stops, they've gotten big sacks and turnovers when they've needed them. Other than a game winning drive by first ballot HOF'er Tom Brady that featured some RIDICULOUS catches from whats-his-face, they've come up big and gotten critical stops all along the way, often in spite of the offense's ability to stay on the field or give htem good field position. I'm sorry, but last year, the defense was the issue. This year, it's the offense. This. I don't understand how people can just completely lack all perspective when it comes to the Bills. I must have read four posts in the last ten mins that basically say, "I can't believe that Justin Rodgers couldn't play as well as Stephon Gilmore or Leodis". The fact that we're missing 3/4 of our starting secondary, plus our Nickel CB, have a gimpy Mario, a banged up Dareus, and a carted off Carrington, MIGHT have a little somethign to do with why our defense didn't shut out the Jets and hold them to zero yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 Last year they allowed 363 yards per game (146 yards rushing), which is pretty bad -- although not as bad as the previous season. In 2011, they gave up 371 yards per game and 170 ypg rushing. This year, through three games they're giving 417 yards per game and 155 ypg rushing. hate blaming injuries as an excuse but when you have mckelvin, Gilmore, byrd, and ron brooks out in the secondary there are going to be issues. especially with a mike pettine defence where he puts a lot of pressure on the corners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 hate blaming injuries as an excuse but when you have mckelvin, Gilmore, byrd, and ron brooks out in the secondary there are going to be issues. especially with a mike pettine defence where he puts a lot of pressure on the corners No doubt - the injuries are really bad and getting worse (and one of things that I truly hate about football). Let me qualify my implied comment: I think Pettine is a really good coordinator (really!), but this defense so far hasn't been good. Injuries have been a big part of it. I don't like to blame injuries either, but it killed them in the secondary yesterday. That said, the Panthers are suffering similar problems in their secondary, and they shut out the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 This. I don't understand how people can just completely lack all perspective when it comes to the Bills. I must have read four posts in the last ten mins that basically say, "I can't believe that Justin Rodgers couldn't play as well as Stephon Gilmore or Leodis". The fact that we're missing 3/4 of our starting secondary, plus our Nickel CB, have a gimpy Mario, a banged up Dareus, and a carted off Carrington, MIGHT have a little somethign to do with why our defense didn't shut out the Jets and hold them to zero yards. hate blaming injuries as an excuse but when you have mckelvin, Gilmore, byrd, and ron brooks out in the secondary there are going to be issues. especially with a mike pettine defence where he puts a lot of pressure on the corners Yep, and yep. Also, injuries are one thing, but in a system that DEPENDS on its DB's to have your THREE best CB's out AND your Pro Bowl FS out...the scheme itself is !@#$ing compromised. Yet the defense is still not the issue. This year's defense is light years improved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 They key word--YOUR word--is "qualify." Listen to what eball is telling you. The Jets run game did not hurt us yesterday. At all. We'll agree to disagree, I guess. We're 24th in the league in rushing first downs per game. Eventually we start zeroing in on the run and get burned by the pass, is the way I see it. The fact that we can't stop the run, and that we can't get off the field on defense, imo, says that we are indeed being hurt by the run. That's not to say that our pass defense is any good, because it's not that great at the moment with our lack of DB talent (combined with our scheme depending on it), just that I disagree with the notion that our run defense is not hurting us. I'll make that my final opinion on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Yep, and yep. Also, injuries are one thing, but in a system that DEPENDS on its DB's to have your THREE best CB's out AND your Pro Bowl FS out...the scheme itself is !@#$ing compromised. Yet the defense is still not the issue. This year's defense is light years improved! I disagree. The *defensive coordination* is light years better. The result is pretty much the same as the last couple of years, however. In this case, I think it's OK to blame injuries given the extent of them in the secondary. It'll show up in the front 7 next week, unfortunately. I'm guessing Carrington is out for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The defence held the offence in all 3 games so far this season while the offence sputters to try and get going. The offence is bordering on incompetence right now and can't seem to stay on the field. The first 12 points scored by the bills were all field goals yesterday and they were still in the game. If the Jets defence didn't spend most of the game trying to give the bills the win and extending drives for them with penalties, this could have easily been a blow out by the Jets. The Bills defence should be sending them a gift basket and thank you cards for giving them some extra time to rest yesterday. Its gotta be really tough for these guys on defence to make a big stop, or get a turn over, only to have the offence give them the ball back on 3 plays (3 plays that only took 20 seconds off the clock) This defence is good enough for a playoff team, no defence is perfect and going to stop everything. The key stat is that they are keeping the opponents from scoring many points/TDs and giving the offence a chance to stay in games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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