YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yep, those SEC defenders are small and slow. None of them could make it in the NFL. Very solid take. Comparing a defense full of 18-22 year olds to an NFL defense is never accurate, no matter the conference. Same with Russel Wilson. They compare in height (Manziel slight advantage) and weight (Wilson 10 lb advantage) and they both can make plays outside the pocket. After that... the similarities end. Wilson is a game manager, Manziel is a love him after the big play/punch a wall after the big mistake QB. Off the field, appear to be complete opposites. Finally, Wilson was taken 75th and Manziel is projected in the top 10. Why? Similar size.... but Manziel was the focal point of his team. His defense was terrible and he had no running game. He WAS A&M. He had WRs.... but the game was on him and often he won. Wilson had a fine D at Wisky and a very good running game... just like he has in Seattle. I have no idea what Manziel will do in the NFL. He is going to be the type of guy that some GMs will not want to have their job depend on, but also will hope he doesn't end up in their division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 He is going to be the type of guy that some GMs will not want to have their job depend on, but also will hope he doesn't end up in their division. Very fair assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 They compare in height (Manziel slight advantage) and weight (Wilson 10 lb advantage) and they both can make plays outside the pocket. After that... the similarities end. He is going to be the type of guy that some GMs will not want to have their job depend on, but also will hope he doesn't end up in their division. He also may be the type of player that owner, GM and coach don't agree on (see the adams, fisher, young debacle in Tennessee). Where he lands will be huge. I also wouldn't be surprised if he measures out closer to Wilson's height than his own listed (ie about 6 flat or maybe a shade less), while being maybe 15 lbs lighter instead of 10 but who knows - I've never seen the guy in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Comparing a defense full of 18-22 year olds to an NFL defense is never accurate, no matter the conference. Please, do you really think NFL defenders are that much bigger or faster than top SEC defenses? Every starter on teams like LSU and Alabama will end up being drafted or at a minimum invited to an NFL camp. Are they the same? No, but anyone who think JFF is just going to fall apart when he takes his first NFL hit has another think coming. He has not been playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, well, except in his last game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Please, do you really think NFL defenders are that much bigger or faster than top SEC defenses? Every starter on teams like LSU and Alabama will end up being drafted or at a minimum invited to an NFL camp. Are they the same? No, but anyone who think JFF is just going to fall apart when he takes his first NFL hit has another think coming. He has not been playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, well, except in his last game. Agreed. I think a lot of people see JFF's highlight reel full of crazy plays and think that's how he is every pass. The reason those plays get so much attention is because they are just that. Crazy, uncommon plays. I would even goes as far to say Johnny only scrambles unnecessarily about 10% of his drop backs. Will he have to curb that a little in the NFL? Sure. But will it sometimes work in the NFL too? Absolutely. It's really no different than Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck or Cam Newton having those awesome 30 or 40 yard rushes, or scrambling out of the pocket to hit the wide open TE in the end zone. Do they do it all the time? Of course not. But even though Russ is coached to not risk himself, when he rips off 40 yards, everyone is happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So....what are the Johnny Manziel rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Please, do you really think NFL defenders are that much bigger or faster than top SEC defenses? Every starter on teams like LSU and Alabama will end up being drafted or at a minimum invited to an NFL camp. Are they the same? No, but anyone who think JFF is just going to fall apart when he takes his first NFL hit has another think coming. He has not been playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, well, except in his last game. Whoa whoa whoa, I'm the first to say playing in the SEC and producing is a good indicator for a lot of positions but that's because you often will have individual matchups against great players (OT vs DE, WR vs CB etc....) and generally be playing at the highest level possible in college but no I can't get behind the idea that nfl defenses aren't that much better than lsu or bama. They are a lot better across the board in the nfl and that effects projecting a qbs production at the next level. Johnny passed the first test, playing well at college, but the next will be MUCH more difficult. There are plenty of flaws that you can succeed with in college that are fatal for an nfl career. Edited January 11, 2014 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 CJ Spiller made his name at Clemson by outrunning the defense around the end. In the NFL he eventually realized he couldn't get away with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Whoa whoa whoa, I'm the first to say playing in the SEC and producing is a good indicator for a lot of positions but that's because you often will have individual matchups against great players (OT vs DE, WR vs CB etc....) and generally be playing at the highest level possible in college but no I can't get behind the idea that nfl defenses aren't that much better than lsu or bama. They are a lot better across the board in the nfl and that effects projecting a qbs production at the next level. Johnny passed the first test, playing well at college, but the next will be MUCH more difficult. There are plenty of flaws that you can succeed with in college that are fatal for an nfl career. That's not the point. The original "argument" was that Manziel will get killed in the NFL because NFL defenders are so much bigger and faster than the ones he played against in college. I pointed out that an awful lot of SEC defenders are NFL-caliber athletes and that if JFF can take hits from them, he likely will survive in the big, bad NFL. I never said success in the SEC automatically means success in the NFL; there are of course too many contrary examples to name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 So....what are the Johnny Manziel rules? First rule of Johnny Manziel is talk about him for ten pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 That's not the point. The original "argument" was that Manziel will get killed in the NFL because NFL defenders are so much bigger and faster than the ones he played against in college. I pointed out that an awful lot of SEC defenders are NFL-caliber athletes and that if JFF can take hits from them, he likely will survive in the big, bad NFL. I never said success in the SEC automatically means success in the NFL; there are of course too many contrary examples to name. I won't say that he will get killed but no Sec defenses aren't as big and fast as NFL defenses. College ball is filled with 18-22 year olds and many players that will never sniff an Nfl roster let alone start on d. The NFL is filled with fully grown men. There is a reason you can't jump to the pros in less 3 years. These "kids" haven't fully developed yet. The flip side of that argument is that maybe manziel will also grow. His frame though unlike Wilson's is smaller and thinner. That's not the point. The original "argument" was that Manziel will get killed in the NFL because NFL defenders are so much bigger and faster than the ones he played against in college. I pointed out that an awful lot of SEC defenders are NFL-caliber athletes and that if JFF can take hits from them, he likely will survive in the big, bad NFL. I never said success in the SEC automatically means success in the NFL; there are of course too many contrary examples to name. I won't say that he will get killed but no Sec defenses aren't as big and fast as NFL defenses. College ball is filled with 18-22 year olds and many players that will never sniff an Nfl roster let alone start on d. The NFL is filled with fully grown men. There is a reason you can't jump to the pros in less 3 years. These "kids" haven't fully developed yet. The flip side of that argument is that maybe manziel will also grow. His frame though unlike Wilson's is smaller and thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Please, do you really think NFL defenders are that much bigger or faster than top SEC defenses? Every starter on teams like LSU and Alabama will end up being drafted or at a minimum invited to an NFL camp. Are they the same? No, but anyone who think JFF is just going to fall apart when he takes his first NFL hit has another think coming. He has not been playing against the Little Sisters of the Poor, well, except in his last game. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yes Good grief. Ron Brooks couldn't even start for LSU and the Bills took him in the 4th round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Good grief. Ron Brooks couldn't even start for LSU and the Bills took him in the 4th round. Does he play much? Get back to me when you have film of Manziel playing against someone with the size/speed/experience/skill of a Mario Williams or Robert Mathis and/or NFL teams fielding a D-line of rookies in a non-preseason game even if they are from (gasp!) LSU or Bama. Edited January 11, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Does he play much? Get back to me when you have film of Manziel playing against someone with the size/speed/experience/skill of a Mario Williams or Robert Mathis and/or NFL teams fielding a D-line of rookies in a non-preseason game even if they are from (gasp!) LSU or Bama. Every D-end in the NFL is a perennial pro-bowler? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Every D-end in the NFL is a perennial pro-bowler? What? Not saying that, but indicating Manziel will face a level of talent he has not yet seen from defenses in the NFL, and his style of play that makes him a college star may not mesh with their ability to neutralize what he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Not saying that, but indicating Manziel will face a level of talent he has not yet seen from defenses in the NFL, and his style of play that makes him a college star may not mesh with their ability to neutralize what he does. He may never be great, but in my opinion he will be very good & he will win immediately in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Not saying that, but indicating Manziel will face a level of talent he has not yet seen from defenses in the NFL, and his style of play that makes him a college star may not mesh with their ability to neutralize what he does. You do know that Johnny doesn't run around in circles every play right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 He may never be great, but in my opinion he will be very good & he will win immediately in the NFL. That's a bold statement. Care to make it interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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