Webster Guy Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Okay I watched that throw to TJ that Manuel missed on. He did have a little separation, not wide open but decent job. Better than I thought. He really did have a great camp (although so did Easley) As much as I think he's a wasted roster spot, especially since we burned a THIRD round pick on Goodwin, I'll give the kid a chance I guess. The good news is the film doesn't lie, and Marrone inherited TJ, so he's either doing his job on the field or he isn't and he'll be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enlightener Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 It may be a retread but this last game just highlights the fact that the Bills think too much of this kid. His presence on the field was in no way a threat. He got an end around took it for 5 yds and took a return for 19 yards. I'd be interested to know how many plays he was on the field for since he disappeared outside of these two plays. I for one have never cared for him as a receiver. He is not physical at the line and gets jammed easily. I would much rather see Easley or Goodwin get more reps as starters than TJ. hi I watch one game and two plays and draw a conclusion about someones entire future...Im mclem06. I guess CJ sucks balls too since he got 3.3 per carry in that game. Try waiting until he gets targeted more than 0 times a game and see what he can do...his speed is a fact, not your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) Hyperbole is the #1 problem on this board. Guess how much Eric Moulds would have produced in his career if he were written off after less than 17 games? I'm not saying that Graham is Moulds, but he has a skill set and I'm sure that the team is going to decide when they've seen enough of it. Receivers typically take time to develop in this league. I never remember a WR with more drops "after less than 17 games" than Graham. I can live with as a rookie poor route running, poor awareness, or timing issues, but to constantly drop the ball is NOT the way to develop. How can E.J. trust him when he's not giving him any reason to feel confidence? To me, he's just taking up a spot we could give to Hogan or Easley at this point. Hell, Hogan could end up being Wes Welker (funny, and hyperbole, but stranger things have happened), but so long as we have Stone Hands in there, we'll be hard pressed to find out. Edited September 11, 2013 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The Bills drafted a similar player in Goodwin (injured unfortunately). If TJ doesn't produce in the next few weeks, however, it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills started going to Hogan or Easley more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) The Bills drafted a similar player in Goodwin (injured unfortunately). If TJ doesn't produce in the next few weeks, however, it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills started going to Hogan or Easley more. Yeah, as an Austinite who gets more Longhorns coverage than I care to, I was not thrilled with the Goodwin pick, particularly that early on (third round)...good guy, nothing personal, but he was used more of as a gadget guy, kick returner, and in garbage time as a receiver at UT Goodwin may be better, ultimately, than TJ Graham, but you are correct, they have very similar skill sets. Unless the Bills really start airing it out (we haven't seen any evidvence of that yet) with EJ, I don't see a great need (on a team that has so many weaknesses) for TJ and Goodwin... I am one who thinks that TJ was not really used properly last season, because of QB limitations...too early, IMO, to write him off. Figure out a way to use the one one toy you already have, before getting another. Edited September 11, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Prediction: TJ is going to catch a deep pass on a go route this week on a play action fake. I'm sure he'll still suck though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 After last season someone posted NFL WR ratings from Pro Football Focus and TJ was dead last in the entire NFL. I'd link it but it's a premium stat. Anyone have access? hi I watch one game and two plays and draw a conclusion about someones entire future...Im mclem06. I guess CJ sucks balls too since he got 3.3 per carry in that game. Try waiting until he gets targeted more than 0 times a game and see what he can do...his speed is a fact, not your opinion. He got targeted with a kick-off. Did he catch it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Hyperbole is the #1 problem on this board. Guess how much Eric Moulds would have produced in his career if he were written off after less than 17 games? I'm not saying that Graham is Moulds, but he has a skill set and I'm sure that the team is going to decide when they've seen enough of it. Receivers typically take time to develop in this league. I don't just bash every player who under-performs. I have studied this guy since the day he was drafted and every play he has made as a Bill. His college career was nothing special. His skill set is very limited. His combine performance awful. He is undrafted talent (not a 1st round talent like Moulds). Way too many easy drops last year to still have a job. Add to the fact that he runs wrong routes and is a serious fumble risk.This is not hyperbole, this is sanity!! More than Left Guard? This too is a problem but there aren't better options on the bench, as in the case of TJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 hi I watch one game and two plays and draw a conclusion about someones entire future...Im mclem06. I guess CJ sucks balls too since he got 3.3 per carry in that game. Try waiting until he gets targeted more than 0 times a game and see what he can do...his speed is a fact, not your opinion. I'd think your position would be more strongly supported had Spiller not averaged 6.0 ypc last season, providing a body of work. Grahams straight line speed is not in question, just his viability as an NFL wide receiver. Lots of fast guys get 0 targets because they can't get open. Graham hasn't even had that one moment where he has flashed what he could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I don't just bash every player who under-performs. I have studied this guy since the day he was drafted and every play he has made as a Bill. His college career was nothing special. His skill set is very limited. His combine performance awful. He is undrafted talent (not a 1st round talent like Moulds). Way too many easy drops last year to still have a job. Add to the fact that he runs wrong routes and is a serious fumble risk.This is not hyperbole, this is sanity!!. Saying he's the #1 problem with the offense is hyperbole. I'll stand by that. The #1 problem with the offense is execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobDVA Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Graham is not starting for his receiving skills, he is starting because he is the best run blocking wr on the team. The Bills are a running team, not a passing team, pay attention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Okay, and how many of those 73 balls went to either Goodwin or Graham? Four? How many went to any wide receivers...less than 10 is my guess. Stats don't always paint a complete picture. So, all the receivers suck, becuase the ball was never thrown to them. Got it. Balls are thrown to receivers that make plays even when they are not open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainwampus Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Saying he's the #1 problem with the offense is hyperbole. I'll stand by that. The #1 problem with the offense is execution. Of course execution is everything, but put Easley or even Tommy Streeter in there and they will execute a higher precentage of the time. TJ had several targets in preseason, 0 catches. He had a very catchable kickoff and botched it beyond belief. What kind of message does this send to Easley? A 4th year rookie who has shown playmaking ability yet never see the field? What message does this send to the entire team? Does playing well ever amount to a promotion? Does playing bad get you benched? It should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I like seeing more out of Easely for what has been said in terms of size, speed, and route running. I don't think last week really is a good test as they played a conservative game plan with a lot of short stuff and running to get EJ comfortable. If this is our offense in week 10, I would be disappointed. I do like Goodwin over TJ, but that doesn't mean TJ sucks. If we ahd the worst QB over 15 yds in the NFL last year, and TJ's problem is he is the vertical threat, then of course he will look bad. He also if getting horrible throws from Fitz, drops some, that is also part of it. It is just not that simple. He needs to get better, but not willing to pull the trigger to bench him. I just think between the route running, and size, and experience, we're better off now with a new QB with SJ, Woods, Easely, and TJ as a 4th. Goodwin would be there in lieu if healthy. Still early guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Not sure how the number of plays he was on the field is relevant. According to ESPN, Robert Woods was on the field for all but two of the Bills offensive snaps. He was targeted twice. Once for a TD! What does that mean? I liked the game that EJ Manuel had on Sunday, and am very encouraged. That said, the Bills just didn't seem willing to really try to stretch the field at all. I am not ready to write of TJ Graham, until he gets the kind of opportunites that he appears to be built for..(and fails or succeeds). There were a few plays where he (and other receivers for that matter) seemed open down field, but EJ wasn't looking his way. The guy is a speed burner, and is being used, primarily, like a possession receiver. It was the same as last year. Early last season, he seemed to get past his coverage...Fitz was willing to throw to him, but seemed incapable of throwing on target.... But... The guy simply can't catch... Anything... Ever. Isn't a WR supposed haul one in once in a while to be considered a viable target? Sorry, but I'm a little horrified at all the support for what is essentially a non-football player. The guy is fast. I'll conceed that much. However, running fast -a good receiver does not make... Even Possession receivers actually need to possess the ball every now and again. TE Nick provo was a poor blocker, but dammit if he couldn't catch. He was one of the guys that made Ryan Nassib look good (to some) Brandon Kaufmann didn't have blazing speed, but was athletic, and determined enough to corral the game-changing throws. IMHO Marcus Easley is the most reliable receiver we have and the team. After that it's Scott Chandler, then Robert Woods, then Steve Johnson. TJ Graham is dead last on my list of reliable Bills Wideouts. I have no clue what Buddy ever saw in him as a third-rounder. Graham would have ben there in the fifith to sixth , no question. Guy just drops everything. IMHO, it may be time to re-evealuate his presence on this team. Edited September 12, 2013 by #34fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Front Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 II have no clue what Buddy ever saw in him as a third-rounder. Graham would have ben there in the fifith to sixth , no question. Uhm, this is the Bills we are talking about here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Anyhow - word has it that TJ is a big part of the gameplan against Carolina. Maybe this is the week that he finally demonstrates he actually belongs on an NFL roster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) It may be a retread but this last game just highlights the fact that the Bills think too much of this kid. His presence on the field was in no way a threat. He got an end around took it for 5 yds and took a return for 19 yards. I'd be interested to know how many plays he was on the field for since he disappeared outside of these two plays. I for one have never cared for him as a receiver. He is not physical at the line and gets jammed easily. I would much rather see Easley or Goodwin get more reps as starters than TJ. I agree that he is overrated, and I still think the Bills could have drafted him 3 rounds later if they wanted him. The kid was drafted almost a full round before TY Hilton (every bit as fast), who had a terrific college career, while TJ did virtually nothing in college. AND they traded up to take him. However I DO think that TJ Graham gets plenty of separation. The kid is fast, no doubt about that. He will win a foot race, and has several times on the field. This is why the Bills drafted him I believe...Unfortunately he rarely ends up making a catch despite winning those races. He really lacks pretty much all other skills that you would want a receiver to have. He has poor hands, and is worse at tracking the ball in the air than McKelvin. He can't handle physical play from CB's. He runs poor routes, and has a really problem with timing. He is a very poor blocker. I'm sure I'll take heat for being negative on the kid, but it's what I've observed during his time in the NFL, and he looked exactly like this in college. I don't dislike Graham, he is just put in a tough spot because the Bills drafted him too high. He is a project type, and they are trying to force him into a prominent role before he has developed the necessary skills. To be honest though, I just don't think he ever will have the skills he needs to succeed. Edited September 12, 2013 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Every time I see the title of this thread, I immediately think, did we trade TJ to MIA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 Thought I'd bump this since the one deep ball that was actually catchable, good ole' TJ bumbles and drops... Time for a change on the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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