SJ is a slot-man now

[mrags]

 

 

Mr. Enlightener, I'm still waiting for a response to this

his response was to me. Stevie is clearly not a #1 WR because he doesn't fit what Joe-Schmoe Monday Mornings QB definition of a true #1 WR is.

 

Keep thinking what you want OP. your definitely in the minority here. And when I say minority I'm talking like white guys in Compton minority.

[biglukes]

his response was to me. Stevie is clearly not a #1 WR because he doesn't fit what Joe-Schmoe Monday Mornings QB definition of a true #1 WR is.

 

Keep thinking what you want OP. your definitely in the minority here. And when I say minority I'm talking like white guys in Compton minority.

His comparing Stevie to David Nelson and suggesting that we'll be taking him off the field this year might be the most asinine of all the asinine things he's said in this thread.

Edited August 4, 2013 by biglukes

[section122]

 

 

so you are admitting SJ is slow here and that ej will want to throw to guys who actually get open deep right? but Im wrong how? SJ doesnt drop alot of balls for being a #1? He does, its factual

 

 

 

I mention many more facts that are indisputable as well like SJs real numbers against revis, his ypc, etc but as for drops...

Since all articles are written by people, what do you consider factual then? Do i need Roger Goodell to write you a letter? If we count all the balls thrown to stevie and divide the number of drops of catchable balls, he is in a tie for 2nd worst with those other three guys i mentioned. The other chart shows drop percentage for guys who were second or third options catching less than 50 balls a year. The first chart were teams Number 1 options like Marshall and megatron etc. Those guys had way more catches than SJ so of course they have a few more drops but not as high of drop percentage. So you didnt readthe chart correctly, not me.

 

Also I dont need to find charts and articles form 2-3 seasons ago, I remember reading the same numbers for SJ in 2011 he was a top ten pass dropper, and in 2010 i remember him dropping some too and thinking he had suspect hands. I dont have to provide links to every drop to be right, why dont you find an article showing how great his numbers are regarding drops in those years?

 

 

 

If youve actually read what I posted it youd know it doesnt matter where a guy lines up and also I dont bash stevie at all, I mention he has skills and I like him but hes not as good as some here suggest. Saying a guy is a great #2 or the 20th best WR in the NFL is far from "bashing" If i mention the drops SJ actually dropped and remark on his speed, which is factually slow, Now Im bashing him?

 

My definition of #1 guy is a guy that can do it all. Others say its the guy that catches the most balls on his team. Thats conveniently SJs role here making him this teams #1. Welker cant do it all. He cant go over the top of a tall DB, he cant beat many dbs deep, and hes smallish. He can out juke a LB or a 3rd CB underneath and squeak out first downs. This was tom bradys escape valve so his numbers are high, no wonder hes moved to the team with the other HOF qb.

 

SJ also cannot do it all. He cant beat guys deep. He also cant be relied on in the clutch, he also is now showing 3 years of injury issues. Conditioning maybe?

 

I finally will ask people to read my OP rather than see one response to a response and misunderstand my take. I still see people clinging to the 1000 yards and revis and SJ being our best wr. None of that makes him a complete WR. It really means our WR were so bad and slow before that SJ was all we had. Why do you think they traded for TJ and last year and for another speedster in Goodwin this year? The new coaches quickly released our big slow guys, using their second on Woods and even took a chance on a troubled Rogers. So they kept Easely but not Nelson, why? Oh yes one has something called speed. And who did the Bills just add to the roster yesterday? A scrub cut from 2 teams already but who runs a 4.17. This speaks for itself how this team was set at WR. SJ has had 0 competition on this team since Evans was traded. Of course he was our #1 But now we have 4-5 new guys who can do what evans could do but stevie cannot...Get open deep.

 

I think SJ may be the odd man out by the end of this season. Im saying all this and I like SJ and hope he sticks around, but I see SJ now as this teams new Nelson, our third slowish possession WR with Rogers and Woods lining up outside and SJ being replaced with graham or Goodwin when we have to go deep. Lets see if the coaches think the same.

Just so I'm clear...

 

The wr who has caught the most balls in nfl history over a 6 year span (Welker) isn't a #1?

[Nanker]

Just so I'm clear...

 

The wr who has caught the most balls in nfl history over a 6 year span (Welker) isn't a #1?

Yes, there are only 19 teams that have a #1 WR. Just ask him. The rest don't use wideouts. They just go with running backs and tight ends.

[mrags]

 

His comparing Stevie to David Nelson and suggesting that we'll be taking him off the field this year might be the most asinine of all the asinine things he's said in this thread.

if he even had a shred of credibility, he pretty much lost it there.

 

 

Just so I'm clear...

 

The wr who has caught the most balls in nfl history over a 6 year span (Welker) isn't a #1?

And..... If he had even a teenie slice of credibility left, he definitely lost it all there.

 

 

 

Mods, can we just remove this troll?

 

 

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe this is Crayonz just messing with us again. No.... Wait, Crayonz is at least funny. This guy is crazy.

Edited August 4, 2013 by mrags

[NewEra]

Stop fueling his fire. The base of his argument: He likes Stevie. Stevie isn't fast and isn't clutch. He doesn't like that there are bills fans think he's a #1 WR. He's trying to convince us that he isn't one and that we shouldn't view Stevie as a #1. He'll never convince anyone as he spews "Stevie can't beat people deep" and "Stevie drops a lot of passes". Just a waste of your time guys. No reason to raise your blood pressure over a troll. Let him slip away into oblivion and ignore him.

[mrags]

Stop fueling his fire. The base of his argument: He likes Stevie. Stevie isn't fast and isn't clutch. He doesn't like that there are bills fans think he's a #1 WR. He's trying to convince us that he isn't one and that we shouldn't view Stevie as a #1. He'll never convince anyone as he spews "Stevie can't beat people deep" and "Stevie drops a lot of passes". Just a waste of your time guys. No reason to raise your blood pressure over a troll. Let him slip away into oblivion and ignore him.

well done Rybek. Well done.

[Dan]

...

 

I mention many more facts that are indisputable as well like SJs real numbers against revis, his ypc, etc but as for drops...

Since all articles are written by people, what do you consider factual then? Do i need Roger Goodell to write you a letter? If we count all the balls thrown to stevie and divide the number of drops of catchable balls, he is in a tie for 2nd worst with those other three guys i mentioned. The other chart shows drop percentage for guys who were second or third options catching less than 50 balls a year. The first chart were teams Number 1 options like Marshall and megatron etc. Those guys had way more catches than SJ so of course they have a few more drops but not as high of drop percentage. So you didnt readthe chart correctly, not me.

 

Also I dont need to find charts and articles form 2-3 seasons ago, I remember reading the same numbers for SJ in 2011 he was a top ten pass dropper, and in 2010 i remember him dropping some too and thinking he had suspect hands. I dont have to provide links to every drop to be right, why dont you find an article showing how great his numbers are regarding drops in those years?

 

...

Two points:

 

1. I think you're misinterpreting the statistics in the article you linked. The article has 2 lists and they included ALL recievers with over 40 catches. The first list being the top 10 receivers in the league (with over 40 catches), ranked by the total number of drops. Stevie is #10 on that list with 11 drops and a drop rate of 12.22%.

 

The second list is the receivers ranked by their drop percentage. Stevie isn't on that list. So he's not tied for 2nd worst drop percentage in 2012, he's not even one of the 10 worst.

 

I think what you were trying to say is that of the 10 receivers with the most drops, Stevie is [almost] tied for 2nd [although he's actually 4th on that list in drop rate; however, statistical significance is something we really don't wanna attemt here].

 

2. I remembered different stats for 2011. And, to try and clear it up, I went ahead and looked for the article.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/

 

As you can see, Stevie is not on the list of 20 worst receivers in drop percentage. In other words, he's not a "top 10 pass dropper" in 2011. Interestingly, his number of catches were very similar to 2012 (79 vs 76 in 2011), and his drop percentage appears to be fairly similar as well. Albeit, that article doesn't list his actual drop percentage in 2011, but I remember it being in the mid12% range.

 

Either way the point being... I think you misremembered your stats for 2011.

 

As for 2010, Stevie was #9 in drop percentage at 13.68%. Just for interest, he was #11 in receptions with 82.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

So, although he was in the top 10 for drop pass percentage in 2010, he has clearly worked on his consistency and improved his standings in this category and for the last 2 years he's not been one of the league worst regarding dropped passes.

 

 

Now... does all this answer the question of him being a true #1 WR? No. But, what it does show is that Stevie has worked on his drop percentage in the last 2 seasons and is not one of the worst in league in dropping passes. So, in the conversation regarding his not being a #1 WR, I think we can remove the "he drops too many balls" from the list of supporting argumentation.

 

[mrags]

 

Two points:

 

1. I think you're misinterpreting the statistics in the article you linked. The article has 2 lists and they included ALL recievers with over 40 catches. The first list being the top 10 receivers in the league (with over 40 catches), ranked by the total number of drops. Stevie is #10 on that list with 11 drops and a drop rate of 12.22%.

 

The second list is the receivers ranked by their drop percentage. Stevie isn't on that list. So he's not tied for 2nd worst drop percentage in 2012, he's not even one of the 10 worst.

 

I think what you were trying to say is that of the 10 receivers with the most drops, Stevie is [almost] tied for 2nd [although he's actually 4th on that list in drop rate; however, statistical significance is something we really don't wanna attemt here].

 

2. I remembered different stats for 2011. And, to try and clear it up, I went ahead and looked for the article.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/17/drop-rate-2011-which-receivers-are-dropping-the-ball/

 

As you can see, Stevie is not on the list of 20 worst receivers in drop percentage. In other words, he's not a "top 10 pass dropper" in 2011. Interestingly, his number of catches were very similar to 2012 (79 vs 76 in 2011), and his drop percentage appears to be fairly similar as well. Albeit, that article doesn't list his actual drop percentage in 2011, but I remember it being in the mid12% range.

 

Either way the point being... I think you misremembered your stats for 2011.

 

As for 2010, Stevie was #9 in drop percentage at 13.68%. Just for interest, he was #11 in receptions with 82.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/23/drop-percentage/

So, although he was in the top 10 for drop pass percentage in 2010, he has clearly worked on his consistency and improved his standings in this category and for the last 2 years he's not been one of the league worst regarding dropped passes.

 

 

Now... does all this answer the question of him being a true #1 WR? No. But, what it does show is that Stevie has worked on his drop percentage in the last 2 seasons and is not one of the worst in league in dropping passes. So, in the conversation regarding his not being a #1 WR, I think we can remove the "he drops too many balls" from the list of supporting argumentation.

great work. Probably too much just for the sake of feeding a troll. But great work regardless.

 

You unfortunately for the OP, have killed all his arguments other than his personal opinions of Stevie which are ridiculous.

[BADOLBILZ]

http://www.buffalone.../130739826/1004

 

Buddy Nix said they wanted Stevie in the slot and so it is. It should help Manuel having a veteran who gets open in close range. I do agree that it might be more physically demanding on Stevie and the guy has been constantly nagged by leg injuries for years so we will see if he is up to the task.

[Gugny]

 

 

Buddy Nix said they wanted Stevie in the slot and so it is. It should help Manuel having a veteran who gets open in close range. I do agree that it might be more physically demanding on Stevie and the guy has been constantly nagged by leg injuries for years so we will see if he is up to the task.

What, exactly, does Buddy Nix have to do with where Steve Johnson lines up?

[enlightener]

Just so I'm clear...

 

The wr who has caught the most balls in nfl history over a 6 year span (Welker) isn't a #1?

 

umm no, did you read what I wrote? maybe read it again and youll see why. Its not merely about passes caught. It could be his system and hOF QB maybe. But go ahead and cling to one stat.

 

Yes, there are only 19 teams that have a #1 WR. Just ask him. The rest don't use wideouts. They just go with running backs and tight ends.

 

very good, take one tiny part of what I wrote, mis-characterize it and pretend your right and intelligent.

 

if he even had a shred of credibility, he pretty much lost it there.

 

And..... If he had even a teenie slice of credibility left, he definitely lost it all there.

 

 

 

Mods, can we just remove this troll?

 

 

Actually, the more I think about it, maybe this is Crayonz just messing with us again. No.... Wait, Crayonz is at least funny. This guy is crazy.

 

not trying to be funny, its hardly funny trying to argue with three or four guys who because they agree with eachother think they are right. Many agree with me and some have ripped you in this very thread, they just dont keep wasting time with people who cant stand to hear counter arguments to their beliefs. You probably backed trent edwards for his whole career here too talking about his concussion and bad O line. If you dont agree fine but the facts are solid and if you want to argue a 1 IS A GUY WHO CATCHES THE MOST BALLS FOR THAT TEAM THAT YEAR then I guess youll be right but many people dont see it that way. You refuse to accept the common definition of a 1,you and the other 3 here ripping me. It doesnt ever make you right.

 

 

Stop fueling his fire. The base of his argument: He likes Stevie. Stevie isn't fast and isn't clutch. He doesn't like that there are bills fans think he's a #1 WR. He's trying to convince us that he isn't one and that we shouldn't view Stevie as a #1. He'll never convince anyone as he spews "Stevie can't beat people deep" and "Stevie drops a lot of passes". Just a waste of your time guys. No reason to raise your blood pressure over a troll. Let him slip away into oblivion and ignore him.

 

well said, I actually wrote much more in attempting to prove it ith stats and exmples but those are lost on people who cant read more than a line or two and get so angry they start yelling troll and idiot at the poster. You at least get the point. I dont really go for "credibilty" on a web board. The stats I used are all credible, I just presented the truths that no one can argue against.

Two points:

 

1. I think you're misinterpreting the statistics in the article you linked. The article has 2 lists and they included ALL recievers with over 40 catches. The first list being the top 10 receivers in the league (with over 40 catches), ranked by the total number of drops. Stevie is #10 on that list with 11 drops and a drop rate of 12.22%.

 

The second list is the receivers ranked by their drop percentage. Stevie isn't on that list. So he's not tied for 2nd worst drop percentage in 2012, he's not even one of the 10 worst.

 

I think what you were trying to say is that of the 10 receivers with the most drops, Stevie is [almost] tied for 2nd [although he's actually 4th on that list in drop rate; however, statistical significance is something we really don't wanna attemt here].

 

2. I remembered different stats for 2011. And, to try and clear it up, I went ahead and looked for the article.

https://www.profootb...pping-the-ball/

 

As you can see, Stevie is not on the list of 20 worst receivers in drop percentage. In other words, he's not a "top 10 pass dropper" in 2011. Interestingly, his number of catches were very similar to 2012 (79 vs 76 in 2011), and his drop percentage appears to be fairly similar as well. Albeit, that article doesn't list his actual drop percentage in 2011, but I remember it being in the mid12% range.

 

Either way the point being... I think you misremembered your stats for 2011.

 

As for 2010, Stevie was #9 in drop percentage at 13.68%. Just for interest, he was #11 in receptions with 82.

https://www.profootb...rop-percentage/

So, although he was in the top 10 for drop pass percentage in 2010, he has clearly worked on his consistency and improved his standings in this category and for the last 2 years he's not been one of the league worst regarding dropped passes.

 

 

Now... does all this answer the question of him being a true #1 WR? No. But, what it does show is that Stevie has worked on his drop percentage in the last 2 seasons and is not one of the worst in league in dropping passes. So, in the conversation regarding his not being a #1 WR, I think we can remove the "he drops too many balls" from the list of supporting argumentation.

 

thanks for actually looking and having a respectful intelligent comment. My feeling is percentage is worth more than overall drops since some WRs get more passes thrown at them than others. I did say SJ was bad for 3 years and percentage wise, he was. He may have "improved" in 2011 as you say but being among the top 4 last year means its still currently an issue and you have to take into account that he doesnt make big catches when they count. He has some nice one-handed grabs sometimes in games that are blow outs but he has more big time drops.

 

I thought when making my point most responses would be like yours, I was wrong, the 3-4 guys are so blatantly biased and selective in what they read and respond to, its not worth even sharing anything unpopular on this board, no matter how intelligent or what stats back up your point. I guess here you just have to say things like, "sj is the best route runner" "SJ owns Revis!!!" etc. "SJ is way better than victor cruz or Vincent Jackson or Desean Jackson or ....etc etc. Ya the 7th rounder who just got relegated to the slot is WAAAAYYY better than all the other WR except megatron. Here are the last few slot guys who played for Blo

 

D Nelson (slow and released)

R parrish (small but fast and released)

J Reed (slow and released)

 

Did Moulds ever play slot? Did Evans? Andre Reed played a bit but mostly at the end of his career. So why is SJ the slot guy now if hes so good?

Edited August 4, 2013 by enlightener

[mrags]

Really? I'd like to see where I was "ripped" please linky. Not that I give 2 chits about what anyone here thinks of me. I'd really like to see it.

 

And if those people are agreeing with you, I probably have about the same amount of respect for them that I have for you. NONE. I enjoy talking with Bills fans. But man, some of them are really not informed when it comes to football.

 

 

And yes, I did "back" Trent Edwards his whole career. I'm a Bills fan and we have needed a QB since #12 retired. At a few points him Trent's career he looked like he might have been that guy. 2 Bills coaches believed this also that's why he was starting QB for this team for the time that he was. Along with 2 ex coaches that are both in the HOF. But I guess they are idiots too because they didnt agree with you.

 

Grief guy, get a grip and just delete your account. As you have said many here have "ripped me in this very thread" which I still have no idea what your talking about, there have been just as many people calling you a troll, and telling you your insane.

[BADOLBILZ]

What, exactly, does Buddy Nix have to do with where Steve Johnson lines up?

 

Buddy Nix stated last winter he wanted Stevie Johnson playing in the slot. The organization had this move planned long ago and they told the fans so. It hadn't been mentioned, which I thought was odd but pertinent to the discussion.

[mitchmurraydowntown]

great work. Probably too much just for the sake of feeding a troll. But great work regardless.

 

You unfortunately for the OP, have killed all his arguments other than his personal opinions of Stevie which are ridiculous.

 

How did he kill my argument ?

[NewEra]

well done Rybek. Well done.

 

You can call me Casey.

[mrags]

 

 

How did he kill my argument ?

not you. Forgot the 2 threads were merged.

 

 

 

You can call me Casey.

oh crap!!!

 

Does that make me Miss July?

[NewEra]

not you. Forgot the 2 threads were merged.

 

oh crap!!!

 

Does that make me Miss July?

 

Do you want to be Miss July?

Too bad Gary Busey was a bad guy.

Edited August 5, 2013 by NewEra

[mrags]

 

 

Do you want to be Miss July?

Too bad Gary Busey was a bad guy.

im ok with being a Baddie. Maybe I can be Strannex.

[thebandit27]

 

thanks for actually looking and having a respectful intelligent comment. My feeling is percentage is worth more than overall drops since some WRs get more passes thrown at them than others. I did say SJ was bad for 3 years and percentage wise, he was. He may have "improved" in 2011 as you say but being among the top 4 last year means its still currently an issue and you have to take into account that he doesnt make big catches when they count. He has some nice one-handed grabs sometimes in games that are blow outs but he has more big time drops.

 

 

You are still lacking a fundamental understanding of the link you provided. The link clearly shows that not only wasn't he among the top 4 in drop percentage last year, he wasn't even among the top 10. He was among the top 10 in total drops, along with 4 or 5 undoubtedly elite WRs.

 

Be honest here: are you trolling, or do you really not understand the article you linked to?