eball Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 My "angle" is that a few guys "in the locker room" not liking the guy is miles away from what you and SJBF are insisting--which is that the pats knew at the time of the new contract, that AH was involved in criminal behavior and that knowledge should have prevented them from re-signing him. I can't make any simpler for you how silly your argument is. How can you convince me that "they should have known" (or in SJBF's case, that they actually knew) that AH was an actual criminal, when all you can cite are a few team mates current comments that they didn't like him and Mularkeys comments about coaches? You may want to believe the patriots knew or should have known AH would turn out to be a killer but you simply can't produce any cogent argument as to why you believe this. How the other boys liked him or not is not an argument. You really don't get that?? Feel free to go back and quote me if I'm wrong, but please let me know where I said either of these things. It's you who are stubbornly refusing to consider what I've suggested -- which is only that the Pats* extended AH solely on the basis of his football talents, and ignored the red flags that clearly existed. That's not saying they knew he would be a killer -- and it's silly for you to take that leap. This is only a continuing discussion because of the ridiculously high pedestal upon which all things Patriot* have been placed over the past decade. When they make a horrible decision that blows up in their faces, too many people rush to their defense. They should be held accountable for their mistakes just as every other team is, and the fact they quickly cut AH and offered a two-day jersey exchange doesn't mean they acted admirably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 The 50M dollar deals didn't have anything to do due-diligence!! The Bengals were a horrible team in the 90s and early 2000s and often picked in the Top 5/10 and hence were forced to pay them big money due to lack of a Rookie Salary cap. And they didnt care enough to have a full scouting staff, how in depth do you think they got into off field issues? I was pointing out there's no flat standard and some teams cut corners on information gathering and then turn around and throw money and high picks at any jerk. That sounds a lot like due diligence. Do you think they had high functioning programs for vet player personnel? I agree they were terrible but pointing out there's simply a wide spectrum as the thread has turned into "factually speaking teams know everything about the guys" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Here's an interesting aspect of the "12 teams issue." The report was that 12 teams had blackballed Hernandez. The obvious next question is how many teams were asked and how many teams responded to the question? In other words, there's a possibility that it was more than 12 teams. Possibly many more than 12 teams? Am I wrong? You responded to my post about Mike Brown so I replied to you. I thought your point held some water. Well here's a question (that I don't expect anyone to take the time to research). Who is the highest-drafted player who was reported to have been involved in a violent incident while in college? Just a rhetorical thought. Off the top of my head I can remember Lawrence Phillips going #6 overall; ditto for Pacman Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 (edited) And they didnt care enough to have a full scouting staff, how in depth do you think they got into off field issues? I was pointing out there's no flat standard and some teams cut corners on information gathering and then turn around and throw money and high picks at any jerk. That sounds a lot like due diligence. Do you think they had high functioning programs for vet player personnel? I agree they were terrible but pointing out there's simply a wide spectrum as the thread has turned into "factually speaking teams know everything about the guys" I love how this thread has turned into a Patriots love fest when they gave a guy $40M AFTER it is possible he literally killed two of the team's fans. Kraft claims he knows nothing and a bunch of people here blame the Bengals? It is not like the Pats have a long history of telling the truth yet...... Edited July 5, 2013 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 77 pages, 1,500+ posts, over 70k views. Tisk, tisk. I forced myself to go over to Patsie* boards to see if this was an all consuming passion for actual "fans" of that team. Try as I might, I couldn't find much of any discussion going on at their boards. Small wonder. However, I did find this little gem that begs the question: "VOTE: Should Pats* Be Concerned About Rob Gronkowski's Off-Field Behavior?" My apologies in advance if this stokes the flames here to even greater heights and causes another 100 pages of dialogue and diatribe to be vented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 77 pages, 1,500+ posts, over 70k views. Tisk, tisk. I forced myself to go over to Patsie* boards to see if this was an all consuming passion for actual "fans" of that team. Try as I might, I couldn't find much of any discussion going on at their boards. Small wonder. However, I did find this little gem that begs the question: "VOTE: Should Pats* Be Concerned About Rob Gronkowski's Off-Field Behavior?" My apologies in advance if this stokes the flames here to even greater heights and causes another 100 pages of dialogue and diatribe to be vented. That poll was started in February when most fans of the Pats had no way of knowing that Hernandez had possible involvement in the 2012 killing of two of their own. It was also when Odin Lloyd was still alive. As for the absence of Hernandez threads, they could have been erased by mods, Kraft could have pressured the web site or could it be that Pats fans are simply Mass holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Off the top of my head I can remember Lawrence Phillips going #6 overall; ditto for Pacman Jones. those were two that i thought of but i didnt remember where in their legal disasters the draft actually fell (ie were their physical incidents in college) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 77 pages, 1,500+ posts, over 70k views. Tisk, tisk. I forced myself to go over to Patsie* boards to see if this was an all consuming passion for actual "fans" of that team. Try as I might, I couldn't find much of any discussion going on at their boards. Small wonder. However, I did find this little gem that begs the question: "VOTE: Should Pats* Be Concerned About Rob Gronkowski's Off-Field Behavior?" My apologies in advance if this stokes the flames here to even greater heights and causes another 100 pages of dialogue and diatribe to be vented. 4merper4mer is probably right. Try this site: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/patsfans-com-patriots-fan-forum.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Off the top of my head I can remember Lawrence Phillips going #6 overall; ditto for Pacman Jones. What did Pacman do in college? I looked around but didn't find anything. Apparently Phillips is serving a lengthy sentence right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 those were two that i thought of but i didnt remember where in their legal disasters the draft actually fell (ie were their physical incidents in college) Phillips beat up his girlfriend in college and was suspended from the team for a while. Don't know about Pacman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Wiki is your friend in this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 What did Pacman do in college? I looked around but didn't find anything. Apparently Phillips is serving a lengthy sentence right now. Unless I'm mistaken he got in a bar brawl as a freshman and actually received a jail sentence that was suspended because he was playing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Phillips beat up his girlfriend in college and was suspended from the team for a while. Don't know about Pacman. yea, i remembered both had college issues, and both had altercations, but offhand not where in the timelines things fit up and didnt feel like looking lastnight.... appreciate you filling in the details on phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 What did Pacman do in college? I looked around but didn't find anything. Apparently Phillips is serving a lengthy sentence right now. Phillips beat up his girlfriend in college and was suspended from the team for a while. Don't know about Pacman. Wiki is your friend in this matter. Loosely quoted from the above citation for those who are curious but won't click a linky thingy: Jones opted out of his Sr. Year at WVA. He was the first defensive player taken and the Flaming Thumbtacks took him at #6. He missed most of training camp over a contract dispute. Floyd Reese their GM had concern over "several" off field incidents. Jones balked at the club's proposed safeguards, but agreed to no guaranteed or bonus $ if he were convicted of a crime. He was on probation for a fight in WVA when he was drafted. He was arrested in July '05 for assault and felony vandalism n a Nashville nightclub. He mouthed off at a public event and "counseled by the police." The state of WVA filed a petition alleging that Jones had not made regular and sufficient contact with his probation office or reported his July arrest in a timely manner. His probation was extended for 90 days. The rest of his well documented road to a model citizenship award happened during his pro career. So, yeah. He had baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 77 pages, 1,500+ posts, over 70k views. Tisk, tisk. I forced myself to go over to Patsie* boards to see if this was an all consuming passion for actual "fans" of that team. Try as I might, I couldn't find much of any discussion going on at their boards. Small wonder. However, I did find this little gem that begs the question: "VOTE: Should Pats* Be Concerned About Rob Gronkowski's Off-Field Behavior?" My apologies in advance if this stokes the flames here to even greater heights and causes another 100 pages of dialogue and diatribe to be vented. Actually, Pats fans are - not surprisingly - even more obsessed with Hernandez than we are. Try this link: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/patsfans-com-patriots-fan-forum-page2.html There are several threads regarding Hernandez. The original is over 70 pages long, but there are many others too. The one about Bill Polian's comment about Hernandez being a draft risk runs 40 pages. There's a 14 page thread about Matt Light never embracing AH's beliefs. Mario William's AH comments runs 6 pages. Etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Actually, Pats fans are - not surprisingly - even more obsessed with Hernandez than we are. Try this link: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/patsfans-com-patriots-fan-forum-page2.html There are several threads regarding Hernandez. The original is over 70 pages long, but there are many others too. The one about Bill Polian's comment about Hernandez being a draft risk runs 40 pages. There's a 14 page thread about Matt Light never embracing AH's beliefs. Mario William's AH comments runs 6 pages. Etc. http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/159196-patriots-hernandez-arrested-in-homicide-investigation/page__st__1520#entry2840317 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 http://forums.twobil...20#entry2840317 Sorry, Doc, somehow I missed that. Pat fans are mesmerized by the AH case like we Bills fans were transfixed by OJ's fall from grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I read this article off the Pats website where it describes the impact of them losing AH. Good read. We have a chance this year. http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2013/07/three_ways_aaron_hernandezs_re.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Wiki is your friend in this matter. I actually checked out Wiki but missed his college shenanigans because they mysteriously included them in the section on his pro career, not his college career. Thanks though Nanker. I also wanted to apologize to Marauder and WEO for my extra portions of rudeness last night. I'm sincerely sorry if I was insulting and I appreciate you guys showing good restraint and not playing to my level. Kudos and cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 I actually checked out Wiki but missed his college shenanigans because they mysteriously included them in the section on his pro career, not his college career. Thanks though Nanker. I also wanted to apologize to Marauder and WEO for my extra portions of rudeness last night. I'm sincerely sorry if I was insulting and I appreciate you guys showing good restraint and not playing to my level. Kudos and cheers. i already felt dirty agreeing with weo... now your apologizing to him and crediting his restraint.... i dont know what to make of all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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