NoSaint Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Does Robert Woods have character issues? Why wasn't he on their board? I think the fact that Kiko is even on their board at MLB, given that they are going to run a pure 43 cover 2 defense is a good sign that the Bills got a solid player there. Also of interest was seeing Jonathan Meeks rated as 6th rounder when everyone said he was going to be undrafted. I think it just goes to further confirm that every team rates these guys differently, and that the scouting departments for these NFL teams do in fact work in a vacuum, and are only considering what they see and observe when evaluating a player. further proves that if theres a guy you want, you cant just wait til hes kipers bpa as someone else might think hes a perfect fit for their scheme as well and have him rated much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Why do they have 'Nachos with that Cheese that I like' in the 6th round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Romo was an UDFA.... And now their undisputed franchise QB. They haven't shown they know QB drafting better than anyone else.... ding, ding, ding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Who cares about their draft board. If the Phi Eagles board was leaked it would look completely different, or any team for that matter. Draft boards are based on needs, schemes, etc. the only reason the Cowboys even have QBs listed on their was for trading opportunities. They were not going to take one of those QBs...case in point they passed on all those 2nd round guys even when they fell including their top rated QB. And a lot of people had Kiko as a 3rd or 4th round guy because they felt he would slide due to character concerns from his early days in college. Buffalo felt comfortable that was behind him and drafted based on his talent (which is first round talent). It only takes ONE other team to want a guy for you to lose him. Doesn't matter if all 30 other teams won't draft him, if that one other team wants him he will be gone and you will lose him. Not to mention their WR grades are terrible and many of those guys went way earlier than they had them listed. So it would seem many tea disagree with most of their board. Edited May 31, 2013 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Let's remember that this is the team that drafted Quincy Carter to be their franchise QB in the 2nd round. Actually, I think the Cowboys board is better than ours. What exactly do you like more about it? I'm curious. further proves that if theres a guy you want, you cant just wait til hes kipers bpa as someone else might think hes a perfect fit for their scheme as well and have him rated much higher. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Wouldn't be too concerned given Jerrah's track record as GM. 3 Rings. I don't know if it strengthens your argument or weakens it but I'm not sure why you track the record back to 2007. Jones has been in control of the Cowboys since he bought the team (and fired Tex Schramm) in 1989 but assumed total control of football operations when he fired Jimmy Johnson in 1994. On top of that some argue that Switzer's Super Bowl win was accomplished with Jimmy Johnson's players. It might be more indicative of Jones' football acumen to track his won-lost record back to 1995. Actually, he assumed complete control of football operations after he fired Landry in 1989. So he gets some credit for the 3 SB winning teams too. Jimmy Johnson will dispute this to some degree. Romo was an UDFA.... And now their undisputed franchise QB. They haven't shown they know QB drafting better than anyone else.... Well, if they have had their undisputed franchise QB for years in Romo, why would they have been drafting a QB? That's like saying the pats have a sixth rounder as their franchise QB, so they don't know how to draft a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 3 Rings. Almost all attributable to Jimmy Johnson's outstanding football acumen. Jerrah has done essentially squat since Jimmy Johnson left Dallas with the exception of one more ring with Jimmy's team under Switzer. I'll give Jones well deserved credit as an astute businessman, but as a GM he sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) I don't know if it strengthens your argument or weakens it but I'm not sure why you track the record back to 2007. Jones has been in control of the Cowboys since he bought the team (and fired Tex Schramm) in 1989 but assumed total control of football operations when he fired Jimmy Johnson in 1994. On top of that some argue that Switzer's Super Bowl win was accomplished with Jimmy Johnson's players. It might be more indicative of Jones' football acumen to track his won-lost record back to 1995. From 1994 (Jones' first year as GM) to the present, the Cowboys are 162-142 with 9 playoff appearances. As for attributing it all to Jimmy Johnson, Jones had the good sense to hire him in the first place. The Bills are 136-168 with four playoff appearances in the same time frame. Almost all attributable to Jimmy Johnson's outstanding football acumen. Jerrah has done essentially squat since Jimmy Johnson left Dallas with the exception of one more ring with Jimmy's team under Switzer. I'll give Jones well deserved credit as an astute businessman, but as a GM he sucks. That's like saying that Parcells gets no credit because it should all be chalked up to BB. Hiring good managers is key, and that's what Parcells did (he also brought in Tom Coughlin). Jones did the unthinkable - firing Tom Landry - in order to get Johnson aboard. He's the guy responsible for Johnson being an NFL coach in the first place. Edited May 31, 2013 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 That's like saying that Parcells gets no credit because it should all be chalked up to BB. Hiring good managers is key, and that's what Parcells did (he also brought in Tom Coughlin). Jones did the unthinkable - firing Tom Landry - in order to get Johnson aboard. He's the guy responsible for Johnson being an NFL coach in the first place. All of the other things you're mentioning have nothing to do with Jones' abilities as the GM and/or guy making the football decisions. So what you're saying doesn't invalidate what I said about Jerrah. These ancillary duties is where Jones should be concentrating his focus and energy. A major factor in effective executive level management is to know your own strengths and weaknesses. Jones clearly hasn't done the introspective analysis that's necessary for the Cowboys to reach their optimal outcome, which is Super Bowl Championships. Withe regard to Landry, he should have been fired several years before Jones took over the Cowboys. That's with all due respect to the greatness of Tom Landry. The previous ownership didn't have the guts to do what needed to be done. I give Jones no great credit for making the clearly obvious move that was long overdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 All of the other things you're mentioning have nothing to do with Jones' abilities as the GM and/or guy making the football decisions. So what you're saying doesn't invalidate what I said about Jerrah. These ancillary duties is where Jones should be concentrating his focus and energy. A major factor in effective executive level management is to know your own strengths and weaknesses. Jones clearly hasn't done the introspective analysis that's necessary for the Cowboys to reach their optimal outcome, which is Super Bowl Championships. Withe regard to Landry, he should have been fired several years before Jones took over the Cowboys. That's with all due respect to the greatness of Tom Landry. The previous ownership didn't have the guts to do what needed to be done. I give Jones no great credit for making the clearly obvious move that was long overdue. this is not to say jones is the greatest GM around, but i think his ability to assemble talent on the sideline (coach and player) is better than given credit for. If he could learn to control the public comments that shouldnt be coming from a GM, his reputation would be much better based upon what he has done, even post johnson. there are what, about 15 GMs, if that(10?) who have acquired rings in the stretch in question. To regularly have a team be as competitive and come with the huge expectations that the cowboys do - you have to be doing a lot of things right too. in the end id chalk him up as good, not great and a guy thats done a lot to hurt his own legacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 All of the other things you're mentioning have nothing to do with Jones' abilities as the GM and/or guy making the football decisions. So what you're saying doesn't invalidate what I said about Jerrah. These ancillary duties is where Jones should be concentrating his focus and energy. A major factor in effective executive level management is to know your own strengths and weaknesses. Jones clearly hasn't done the introspective analysis that's necessary for the Cowboys to reach their optimal outcome, which is Super Bowl Championships. Withe regard to Landry, he should have been fired several years before Jones took over the Cowboys. That's with all due respect to the greatness of Tom Landry. The previous ownership didn't have the guts to do what needed to be done. I give Jones no great credit for making the clearly obvious move that was long overdue. Don't get me wrong - I despise Jerry Jones, and I think he has lots of flaws. That said, he runs a better franchise than the we one we all like. As for Landry, he was fired after only one truly bad season (1988): http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/. In the previous two seasons, he led the team to 7-8 (6-6 if you take out the replacement player games) and 7-9 records --basically, just below .500. Before that he led the team to 20 - 20!! - straight winning seasons (1966-1985). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 this is not to say jones is the greatest GM around, but i think his ability to assemble talent on the sideline (coach and player) is better than given credit for. If he could learn to control the public comments that shouldnt be coming from a GM, his reputation would be much better based upon what he has done, even post johnson. there are what, about 15 GMs, if that(10?) who have acquired rings in the stretch in question. To regularly have a team be as competitive and come with the huge expectations that the cowboys do - you have to be doing a lot of things right too. in the end id chalk him up as good, not great and a guy thats done a lot to hurt his own legacy. I agree with all of this. Jimmy J was a huge factor. Also on of the greatest/smartest coaches in the NFL for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Marquise Goodwin was a RD6 for them. I think the 'Boys need some new scouts. Their Johnthan Banks rating (also 6th RD) is laughable. He went #43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Marquise Goodwin was a RD6 for them. I think the 'Boys need some new scouts. Their Johnthan Banks rating (also 6th RD) is laughable. He went #43. Give them the guys who scouted our 2nd round picks in 2011-12... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 There is the old scoreboard to consider: Cowboys' record from 2007-2012 -- 55-41 Bills' record from 2007-2012 -- 36-60 I wouldn't be so quick to cast stones at the Cowboys' ability to identify talent. First of all, that really hasn't been their problem, and second of all they win more than they lose. Finally, the Cowboys' poor drafting is a media myth that doesn't bear up to scrutiny. I'm surprised knowledgeable fans here subscribe to it. I don't know if it strengthens your argument or weakens it but I'm not sure why you track the record back to 2007. Jones has been in control of the Cowboys since he bought the team (and fired Tex Schramm) in 1989 but assumed total control of football operations when he fired Jimmy Johnson in 1994. On top of that some argue that Switzer's Super Bowl win was accomplished with Jimmy Johnson's players. It might be more indicative of Jones' football acumen to track his won-lost record back to 1995. From 1994 (Jones' first year as GM) to the present, the Cowboys are 162-142 with 9 playoff appearances. As for attributing it all to Jimmy Johnson, Jones had the good sense to hire him in the first place. The Bills are 136-168 with four playoff appearances in the same time frame. Well 20 games over .500 in the last 20 years is not as good as 13 games over in the last 6 years. But all of that is irrelevant to me anyways. As I've butted heads with Hopeful on Bills vs Jets, we're Bills fans and we hate the team that beat us in 2 Super Bowls. Furthermore, the fact of the Bills suckitude doesn't give the Cowboys immunity from our criticism. I don't understand the scoreboard thing at all. Are we only allowed to criticize teams that are worse than us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Marquise Goodwin was a RD6 for them. I think the 'Boys need some new scouts. Their Johnthan Banks rating (also 6th RD) is laughable. He went #43. I think you are confusing your mock drafts with their assessment of value for players in their real draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 this is not to say jones is the greatest GM around, but i think his ability to assemble talent on the sideline (coach and player) is better than given credit for. If he could learn to control the public comments that shouldnt be coming from a GM, his reputation would be much better based upon what he has done, even post johnson. there are what, about 15 GMs, if that(10?) who have acquired rings in the stretch in question. To regularly have a team be as competitive and come with the huge expectations that the cowboys do - you have to be doing a lot of things right too. in the end id chalk him up as good, not great and a guy thats done a lot to hurt his own legacy. While I acknowledge that Jerry Jones has done a better then average job as his own GM. I can even say I understand his thoughts on the matter. Why hire someone and pay them when you think you can pretty much do as good or even a better job, and your philosophies may conflict with his. After all he did learn from Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells. This is the thing that gets me tho, the Colts owner Jim Irsay is a complete tool in my view as I can't stand him for so many reasons. Unlike his father before him, who had his hands in every aspect of the team like JJ has, the son was smart enough to recognize the talent in Bill Polian for GM and hire him to run his team. When other teams tried to hire him away Irsay made him president,and thus giving him complete immunity from losing him. 11 years of winning seasons with countless division championships and two trips to the SB, and one win. I think Jerry Jones is smarter then Jim Irsay and could hire a Polian clone. My take is he is such a power hungry control freak he wants to prove he can get a team to a SB win all on his own. After all, he wanted to take all the credit for the Jimmy Johnson wins, and rubbed it in Johnson's nose when he won with Barry Switzer as head coach. Like I said, I'm happy Jones thinks enough of himself to be his own GM ...I'll bet the NY Giants are happy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 As people here have been posting, different teams place different values on players and sometimes those values are very different. http://csnne.nbcsports.acquia-ps.com/blog/patriots-talk/patriots-cowboys-dont-see-eye-eye-draft Aaron Dobson, the wideout the Patriots drafted with the 59th overall pick, had a fifth-round grade for Dallas and he was the 12th rated receiver on their board. Josh Boyce, whom the Patriots selected in the fourth round with the 102nd pick, was rated a fourth-rounder by the Cowboys as well. As for the Patriots’ first selection, Jamie Collins (52 overall)? He was deemed the sixth-best defensive end for the Cowboys and given a third-round grade. Illinois defensive end Michael Buchanan, whom the Patriots took in the seventh-round with the 226th overall pick? Dallas had him with a fourth-round grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Does Robert Woods have character issues? Why wasn't he on their board? I think the fact that Kiko is even on their board at MLB, given that they are going to run a pure 43 cover 2 defense is a good sign that the Bills got a solid player there. Also of interest was seeing Jonathan Meeks rated as 6th rounder when everyone said he was going to be undrafted. I think it just goes to further confirm that every team rates these guys differently, and that the scouting departments for these NFL teams do in fact work in a vacuum, and are only considering what they see and observe when evaluating a player. Robert Woods was banged up a lot in college. I think he had recurring ankle problems- nothing major IIRC, but apparently enough to question his durability against NFL caliber defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiragandhi'sthong Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Jerry's ego has singlehandedly turned Dallas into an also-ran. Not worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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