[please fix subject]

[finn]

I can't help feeling optimistic about the Bills every year. Like a guy on his second marriage, being a Bills fan is an exercise of hope over experience. Still, even I can see the same depressing patterns going way back. Exciting new coach enters, promising a new era, more aggressive, attacking football (no one promises passivity and meekness), and he promptly changes the scheme, always changing the scheme. If we have a 3-4, he goes with 4-3; got a 4-3? Well, back to a 3-4. Short passing game? We'll open things up. Opened up already? We'll move the chains, use short passes to set up the long game. Exciting changes afoot, fans!

 

I had mixed feelings about Marv Levy, but I admired how he chose the scheme to fit the personnel, not the other way around. I think it was Dick Jauron who cut Pat Williams in his prime (switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4, of course), which promptly dropped the Bills number two- or three-ranked defense to among the worst in the league. Wannstedt was an awful coordinator, a real has-been. But his move to a 4-3 made sense given his players' weaknesses (i.e., linebacker) and strengths, with Kyle Williams and Dareus at tackle and Mario at end; Carrington did nicely at tackle, too. (Too bad Wanny pretty much mailed it in after this change.) Now Marrone wants to change--you guessed it--back to a 3-4. Why? Let me guess: for an attacking defense?

 

Another Levy principle: Retain your own players. Others here have lamented the list of players cut since he left, including Antoine Winfield, Pat Williams, Paul Posluszny, Jason Peters and Nate Clements. Now Levitre's gone and maybe Byrd. When the front office does manage to draft well, they decline to pay the players when their contracts are up. Then they draft a replacement, and we get all excited. I'm fully aware that they couldn't retain everyone, ridiculous salaries, small market, etc. But, c'mon. You have the best safety in football. Pay the man. It's always two steps forward, two steps back.

 

Let me mention one more pattern: drafting for potential instead of production, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary. E.J. Manuel may be great. Who knows? But am I the only one who is thinking of Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Daunte Culpepper (yes, they're all black)--big, athletic, fast, cannon arms, etc? I felt ill when I heard Nix stressing repeatedly that Manuel is "tall." That kind of myopia is what led him to pass on Russell Wilson. Why draft an talented AND productive quarterback when you can draft one that is merely talented (but tall!)? Same with speed over production: neither T.J. Graham nor Marquise Goodwin were particularly productive in college (Goodwin didn't even start--in college!), but both are speedsters. Fine, maybe they can contribute on the odd end-around. But does that justify picking them in the THIRD round, when you want a starter? When you're looking at swapping your Pro Bowl guard for a journeyman, the third on the line? It's like the little kid comes out in Nix. "Oooh, he's fast! He's tall!"

 

To close my rant, I am still optimistic, still excited, still pumped--and still reading this board every day, as I have been for twenty years. We're a pathetic bunch, aren't we? But we do enjoy ourselves. Go Bills!

[KD in CA]

Like a guy on his second marriage, being a Bills fan is an exercise of hope over experience.

 

I think that applies to first marriages. By #2 you ought to have learned from your mistakes and made a wiser choice. Unless you're one of those people that has had six marriages because you keep marrying the same kind of girl every time. That's more like the BIlls.

[GRHater69]

Pat Williams was let go by Donahoe not Levy or Jauron, in fact Levy openly questioned that move when he came on board in '06. And the switch to a 3-4 did not take place until 2010 (Chan Gailey's first year).

[Coach Tuesday]

There are like 40 inaccuracies in your post. I'm going to leave it at that.

[sodbuster]

Retaining your players is great... if they are worth retaining, and if you can afford it.

[Dorkington]

I disagree with the assertion that EJ is merely talented and not productive.

[mrags]

Yup. Williams was cut by Donahoe and Williams. Not Juron and Levy.

 

Goodwin and Graham are not just fast, they are possibly 2 of the fastest guys in the NFL, on the same team, in the same offense. And that's with number ones like Stevie Johnson on the field. These guys aren't expected to be a number 1, or 2. Or maybe even a 3. They are expected to be field stretchers.

 

We drafted 2 bigger, more physical, and very proven WRs in Woods and Rogers. Both had 1st and 2nd round grades. And both will fight for the 2nd and 3rd spot on this team with everything they've got.

 

You mad about EJ? Sounds like your just butthurt we didn't draft Wilson, or Smith, or Barkley. It has been said that EJ had the most upside of all the QBs in the draft. It's been said by almost all of the "experts" that he has the most potential. And I don't think there are too many that would have oreferred Nassib, Smith, or Barkley considering only Smith was drafted in the 2nd round and that was by the very stupid Jets. The rest were after round 4. It's obvious that NFL teams that needed QBs Didnt think much of any of these QBs available. We got the one we wanted.

 

That's all. Enjoy your divorce.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Retaining players is no longer an option with the new free agency rules, save one or two key players....

 

Also I am not understanding the EJ manual perspective... He will go down in semonole history as one of the top 3, best most productive qb's in noles history.

 

Better college career than kaepernick and Wilson, arguably comparible stats to RG3... And a career win loss record comparable to luck.

 

The guy was a very good college QB. He throws the ball very well.

 

Maybe his skills won't translate to the nfl, or some of his flaws will be a problem, but production is there.

[Storm Front]

I am with the OP. We've seen this all before. During the draft, the better teams were building their lines while we were picking speedy guys for their potential and a projected 3rd round pick as our franchise QB. Insanity is doing the same thing over again (and rooting for the Bills). More Kool Aid please!

 

GO BILLS!

[Lurker]

There are like 40 inaccuracies in your post. I'm going to leave it at that.

I'd say more like 42...

[PJBrown7]

e

I am with the OP. We've seen this all before. During the draft, the better teams were building their lines while we were picking speedy guys for their potential and a projected 3rd round pick as our franchise QB. Insanity is doing the same thing over again (and rooting for the Bills). More Kool Aid please!

 

GO BILLS!

Seriously? I've been a fan for 40 years and the moves we have made are anything but "doing the same thing over again". We have good lines. We lacked playmakers.

[billsrcursed]

I am with the OP. We've seen this all before. During the draft, the better teams were building their lines while we were picking speedy guys for their potential and a projected 3rd round pick as our franchise QB. Insanity is doing the same thing over again (and rooting for the Bills). More Kool Aid please!

 

GO BILLS!

 

Why am I not surprised...

[Orton's Arm]

I can't help feeling optimistic about the Bills every year. Like a guy on his second marriage, being a Bills fan is an exercise of hope over experience. Still, even I can see the same depressing patterns going way back. Exciting new coach enters, promising a new era, more aggressive, attacking football (no one promises passivity and meekness), and he promptly changes the scheme, always changing the scheme. If we have a 3-4, he goes with 4-3; got a 4-3? Well, back to a 3-4. Short passing game? We'll open things up. Opened up already? We'll move the chains, use short passes to set up the long game. Exciting changes afoot, fans!

 

I had mixed feelings about Marv Levy, but I admired how he chose the scheme to fit the personnel, not the other way around. I think it was Dick Jauron who cut Pat Williams in his prime (switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4, of course), which promptly dropped the Bills number two- or three-ranked defense to among the worst in the league. Wannstedt was an awful coordinator, a real has-been. But his move to a 4-3 made sense given his players' weaknesses (i.e., linebacker) and strengths, with Kyle Williams and Dareus at tackle and Mario at end; Carrington did nicely at tackle, too. (Too bad Wanny pretty much mailed it in after this change.) Now Marrone wants to change--you guessed it--back to a 3-4. Why? Let me guess: for an attacking defense?

 

Another Levy principle: Retain your own players. Others here have lamented the list of players cut since he left, including Antoine Winfield, Pat Williams, Paul Posluszny, Jason Peters and Nate Clements. Now Levitre's gone and maybe Byrd. When the front office does manage to draft well, they decline to pay the players when their contracts are up. Then they draft a replacement, and we get all excited. I'm fully aware that they couldn't retain everyone, ridiculous salaries, small market, etc. But, c'mon. You have the best safety in football. Pay the man. It's always two steps forward, two steps back.

 

Let me mention one more pattern: drafting for potential instead of production, despite all the rhetoric to the contrary. E.J. Manuel may be great. Who knows? But am I the only one who is thinking of Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Daunte Culpepper (yes, they're all black)--big, athletic, fast, cannon arms, etc? I felt ill when I heard Nix stressing repeatedly that Manuel is "tall." That kind of myopia is what led him to pass on Russell Wilson. Why draft an talented AND productive quarterback when you can draft one that is merely talented (but tall!)? Same with speed over production: neither T.J. Graham nor Marquise Goodwin were particularly productive in college (Goodwin didn't even start--in college!), but both are speedsters. Fine, maybe they can contribute on the odd end-around. But does that justify picking them in the THIRD round, when you want a starter? When you're looking at swapping your Pro Bowl guard for a journeyman, the third on the line? It's like the little kid comes out in Nix. "Oooh, he's fast! He's tall!"

 

To close my rant, I am still optimistic, still excited, still pumped--and still reading this board every day, as I have been for twenty years. We're a pathetic bunch, aren't we? But we do enjoy ourselves. Go Bills!

 

Good post, and I agree with its overall theme. There are a few minor inaccuracies which I'd like to correct:

 

> I think it was Dick Jauron who cut Pat Williams in his prime (switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4, of course),

 

Back in the late '90s, the Wade Phillips Bills had a great 3-4 defense. The best defense I can remember us having. Wade's defenses would do a very good job of stymieing even the best offenses in the league. Compare those to Jerry Gray's blitz-heavy defenses under TD. If your team couldn't pick up the blitz, Gray's defenses would kill you. They'd absolutely rip your head off. Humiliate you. But if an offense could pick up the blitz--which better offenses typically can--then the effectiveness of Gray's defenses was largely neutralized. Even though Gray's best defense were supposedly top-5, the Patriots scored slightly more points per drive against it than they did in their 14 games against non-Bills opponents.

 

If you're in a 4-3 defense, the only real way to send a pass rusher they're not expecting is to blitz. Blitzing makes you vulnerable. In a 3-4, you rush your three down linemen, plus (usually) one linebacker. But that one linebacker can vary from play to play; allowing a 3-4 to create pass rushing unpredictability without taking the risks of blitzing. This is one of several reasons why Wade Phillips' defense was so much better than Jerry Gray's at shutting down good offenses.

 

The team TD inherited had a great defensive scheme, but not much in the way of an offensive scheme. TD therefore did the obvious: he completely dismantled the defensive scheme which had been so successful, and in some cases got rid of players who'd been chosen to fit that scheme. TD began that process with his very first major decision: his choice of head coach. In his coaching search, the final four candidates were all from the defensive side of the ball. With the exception of the courtesy interview given to our own defensive coordinator, each of those four guys could be counted on to dismantle our amazing defensive scheme, and replace it with an inferior scheme. Which is exactly what happened when TD hired Gregg.

 

Pat Williams had been a very important part of Wade's 3-4 defense. He was a perfect fit for the NT position. On running plays, he'd use up two blockers and not get moved. On pass plays, he'd often use up two blockers also. When the Bills switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3, he became less good of a fit. As he started to reach an age at which defensive linemen often decline, TD made the decision to let him go. However, it turned out that the summertime of Williams' career lasted considerably longer than one might have expected.

 

> Now Levitre's gone and maybe Byrd.

 

I'd wanted the Bills to re-sign Levitre. The problem is that the Titans had a ton of extra cap space, and greatly overpaid for him. Had the Bills similarly overpaid for him, they would have created two sources of salary cap problems for themselves. 1) The money expended on overpaying for Levitre. 2) Other Bills' OL would compare any offers the Bills might make to Levitre's inflated contract. This would create huge problems when the time came to re-sign players like Wood or Glenn. (Much like the Bills' decision to overpay for Kelsay drove up the contract for Schobel.) If you overpay for a player on a particular unit, you always want it to be your most valuable player on that unit.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

e

Seriously? I've been a fan for 40 years and the moves we have made are anything but "doing the same thing over again". We have good lines. We lacked playmakers.

 

 

Exactly... Look, the bills might end up in exactly the same place, but this is not the same old approach.

 

1. A new young coach with a more impressive college resume then pro resume and no NFL head coaching experience.

 

2. Ralph relinquished decision making authority

 

3. Bills drafted speed at every spot and added a bunch of play makers to the roster

 

4. Cleaned house of solid contributing but plateaued veterans and role players

 

5. Taking risks on questionable character high potential players

 

6. first round qb, (been a few decades) first pick qb... (never) AND picked up a free agent that is an upgrade over what was there which can provide a stop gap

 

7. Added three talented WR college prospects in one fell swoop

 

8. Sniped an up and coming d co-ordinator from a division rival.

 

9. Trading back to add picks knowing their targeted guys will be there

 

10. Traded an underachieving starter at a position of need for some solid depth at a position of strength.

 

Again- not a predictor that results will be different, but this is a VERY different path from same old bilz...

 

[KeisterHollow]

I don't think its very relevant to compare the Bills of today to the Bills of past-eras. There is so much different about the Bills today than even last year. Nix and Brandon are about the only common threads - and Nix has done a very good job this offseason. Frankly, if Manuel pans out, Nix is going to be considered the best GM we've had since Butler. I like what he's done - I like how the Bills are big, fast, and athletic. It's really been his big weakness, to date, that he's not brought in a QB and his choice for H.C.

 

However, the hiring of Gailey was when Nix was pretty new to his job. And, if anyone can recall, NO ONE seemed to want the gig. They contacted the guys we'd of wanted them to hire, and no one was interested. Sure, he could've been more creative and gone like the Trestamen route - the Canadian coach - but, he went Gailey, and we know how that panned out. As for the QB, I'm not so sure it wasn't Gailey who pushed Fitz and stressed NOT bringing in a rookie (other than the guys they obviously wanted and were never available to them).

 

Pettine was the best D-Coordinator option available, and I'd guess there would have been about 10 or more teams in the NFL that would have welcomed him in that capacity. Marrone was also a highly regarded coaching candidate - and, from what I've seen and heard, I believe he has what it takes to compete in this division - which is being a smart enough, innovative enough, coach to go head to head, wit to wit, agains Bellicheck. Wait and see - Marrone will have us all very happy again soon.

 

The importance of not comparing Buffalo to it's past teams is SO GREAT it is one of the first things Marrone did when he got here. He wanted to eliminate the aura of ineptitude, that sense that the Bills weren't in the same league with the good teams. Gailey's squad quit on him last year. They didn't believe they could win before they even got on the field (most of the guys). Marrone is instilling a new attitude. He's bringing them back to square one - where every team needs to be to win - so when they walk on that field they're not going to be the Bills who've missed the playoffs for 13 years. They're going to be a totally new team - and, I for one think they're going to shock people with how good they are this year. I expect that defense to be nasty, and I expect our offense to be very innovative and to put up points.

 

I'm predicting a wild card spot for us this year, and if not, I'm predicting that we're above .500. This is not the Bills of old.

[Tipster19]

I can't help feeling optimistic about the Bills every year. Like a guy on his second marriage, being a Bills fan is an exercise of hope over experience.

 

Btw I love this line.

 

 

Aaaahh, nothing like a good rant! Let me add to it, accurate or inaccurate it doesn't make a difference to me, it purges the frustrations that have been suffered through all these years of ineptness.

 

What has irked me more than just about anything else is the way that we use top draft picks on a position (CB) that is suppose to be critical to a defense's success and then just let them walk after their contracts are up. How many times have we repeated this principle??! I'm surprised that we kept McKelvin, maybe we are finally turning the corner with this type of thinking. The only other position that we seem to just "experiment" with is the RB position. Look at some of the RBs that we tried and failed with. It starts with Travis Henry then rolls right to Willis McGahee and then jumps right into the fire with Marshawn Lynch. We don't have a problem with evaluating the talent at this position, we just suck at matching up the personalities with our environment. I don't even have to say anything about Henry, his rap sheet speaks for itself but looking at McGahee and Lynch our "braintrusts" should have been a little smarter with these selections. McGahee came from a big time program in sunny Florida and Lynch, well he came straight from the hood of Oakland. Wasn't there a predraft report where he was shot at in a case of "mistaken identity"?! I don't know about you but I would have to call that a red flag. For the most part through the last decade or so the bulk of our rosters were made up of second tier caliber players and drafted star hoods. The first part of that equation is a bunch of players who are just thankful to be on an NFL roster playing and the second part were selected, they had no choice BUT to play here. Look, the only way that a team is to overcome personality/moral deficiencies is by having a strong locker room presence. We haven't had that in quite some time so why are we trying to fit square pegs into round holes??!

 

The Steelers this year made it a priority to not only interview their draft prospects extensively but also to make a thorough examination of their backgrounds AND their families. Is this a practice that we should incorporate, especially that we are a small market franchise in a multi-million (billion?) dollar business that is making college kids instantly wealthy??! Ya think??!

 

I don't know if this Marrone guy is the answer but until we start building a locker room which in turn will start resembling a team then no more of these "star" players please. One thing that I'll say about them stinking Patriots, you don't hear too many individuals' names being called out, they just play like a team. Until we realize what it takes to becoming one then we are always going to be changing administrators, players and philosophies. That's just my 2 cents.

[Nanker]

I don't get it. Nix clearly could have traded down multiple times in at LEAST the first six rounds and gotten more picks to fill EVERY hole with craptacular slugs, reaches, and child molesters. Then he could make some swell trades and get Sanchez or Tebow - or better yet Sanchez AND Tebow and then we'd be in fat city!

[finn]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry about the inaccuracies. Yes, some key things are different now, as "fanhood" pointed out, especially Wilson no longer intervening. Again, I'm optimistic. I always preferred the 3-4, since the Super Bowl days. Paup on one end at LB, Bruce on the other side, produced some of the most satisfying plays I remember ever seeing. I like the two new big WR's a lot, Duke Williams, Alonzo, the kicker... It looks like a very good draft. Insofar as it's fun to predict, I would say all these moves will turn out well. But I am pessimistic about Manuel. My sense is that this is the 2007 draft all over again: backups at best down the line. And I wanted Nix to take a guard. We've been down this O-line path before: keep plugging in journeymen, and pretty soon you have a mediocre line and the dominoes start falling.

 

(Admin's: what's wrong with the subject?)

[Tipster19]

(Admin's: what's wrong with the subject?)

 

Not rosy enough??? I will say that it's quite a first post, wouldn't you say? Anyways keep up the passion, it's entertaining!

[jumbalaya]

Yup. Williams was cut by Donahoe and Williams. Not Juron and Levy.

 

Goodwin and Graham are not just fast, they are possibly 2 of the fastest guys in the NFL, on the same team, in the same offense. And that's with number ones like Stevie Johnson on the field. These guys aren't expected to be a number 1, or 2. Or maybe even a 3. They are expected to be field stretchers.

 

We drafted 2 bigger, more physical, and very proven WRs in Woods and Rogers. Both had 1st and 2nd round grades. And both will fight for the 2nd and 3rd spot on this team with everything they've got.

 

You mad about EJ? Sounds like your just butthurt we didn't draft Wilson, or Smith, or Barkley. It has been said that EJ had the most upside of all the QBs in the draft. It's been said by almost all of the "experts" that he has the most potential. And I don't think there are too many that would have oreferred Nassib, Smith, or Barkley considering only Smith was drafted in the 2nd round and that was by the very stupid Jets. The rest were after round 4. It's obvious that NFL teams that needed QBs Didnt think much of any of these QBs available. We got the one we wanted.

 

That's all. Enjoy your divorce.

 

fast means nothing which is why TJ pretty much sucked last year.

 

We drafted 2 bigger, more physical, and very proven WRs in Woods and Rogers. Both had 1st and 2nd round grades. And both will fight for the 2nd and 3rd spot on this team with everything they've got.

 

 

How can you say such a thing? You have absolutely no clue how hard they may try. In college Rogers was proven a druggie, that is all he proved, and that is why he went un-drafted. He could just as easily cash in his UDFA check for a bag of weed. Its more likely that the last second grade Rogers saw was his last time in a class room.

Edited April 30, 2013 by jumbalaya