[please fix subject]

[Chandler#81]

There are like 40 inaccuracies in your post. I'm going to leave it at that.

 

Yup. Thought/realized the same things while reading the virgin posts. Crying about departing players while acknowledging exactly why.

 

We don't have enough of your kind here, so Welcome aboard - or back...

[Big Turk]

I disagree with the assertion that EJ is merely talented and not productive.

 

The Bills exhaustively looked at every aspect of QBs they might be interested in. Nix explained they asked Manuel about only using half field reads and he told them that was what the coaches asked him to do. They asked the FSU coaches and were told the same thing. Then they asked Manuel questions regarding football knowledge, reading defenses and specific things about their offense and he not only understood them but could break down the concepts for them. Couple this with the fact he is intelligent, a film study junkie, AND athletically gifted, not to mention plays big in big games and is a tremendous leader and its not hard to see why the Bills loved him.

 

Basically the knocks from the experts on Manuel were he didn't do things he was specifically coached NOT to do...after doing due diligence the Bills decided that he not only is perfectly capable of doing those things, he understands all the concepts behind them. Huge difference between him and Vince Young, Akili Smith, etc...

 

The experts fail to realize that not doing something because you aren't asked to doesn't mean you are incapable of doing it...

[Tu-Toned]

fast means nothing which is why TJ pretty much sucked last year.

 

 

 

How can you say such a thing? You have absolutely no clue how hard they may try. In college Rogers was proven a druggie, that is all he proved, and that is why he went un-drafted. He could just as easily cash in his UDFA check for a bag of weed. Its more likely that the last second grade Rogers saw was his last time in a class room.

fast means nothing which is why TJ pretty much sucked last year.

 

 

 

How can you say such a thing? You have absolutely no clue how hard they may try. In college Rogers was proven a druggie, that is all he proved, and that is why he went un-drafted. He could just as easily cash in his UDFA check for a bag of weed. Its more likely that the last second grade Rogers saw was his last time in a class room.

Wow, I thought that it was just MaryJane, what the hell else was doing? If it was just MJ, then that is one hell of

a stretch to refer to him as a druggie. Now I realize that in most states MJ is still illegal, and that it's probably

not something you should be doing if you are trying to make an nfl team, but that is like saying that someone

who enjoys an alcoholic beverage every once in a while, is an alcoholic, stereoptype much???

[Cynical]

Good post, and I agree with its overall theme. There are a few minor inaccuracies which I'd like to correct:

 

Yes, let's do.

 

Back in the late '90s, the Wade Phillips Bills had a great 3-4 defense. The best defense I can remember us having. Wade's defenses would do a very good job of stymieing even the best offenses in the league. Compare those to Jerry Gray's blitz-heavy defenses under TD.

 

Apples to Oranges comparison.

Wade's defensive line consisted of players like Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, and Phil Hansen

 

The closest example of a line that good is when Gray got to work with Pat Williams, Sam Adams, and Schobel. Do you even remember the player on the opposite side of the line?

 

If you're in a 4-3 defense, the only real way to send a pass rusher they're not expecting is to blitz. Blitzing makes you vulnerable. In a 3-4, you rush your three down linemen, plus (usually) one linebacker. But that one linebacker can vary from play to play; allowing a 3-4 to create pass rushing unpredictability without taking the risks of blitzing.

 

A 4-3 and a 3-4 have both strengths and weaknesses.

Neither one is inherently better overall than the other one.

 

Yes, in a 3-4, you can send in a LB from different positions, but it's still a 240lb LB vs a 300+lb OL.

If the OL gets his paws on the LB, care to guess who wins that battle?

 

In a 4-3 (traditional), it's a 300lb DT vs 300+lb OL. Pass protection just got a whole lot tougher.

 

This is one of several reasons why Wade Phillips' defense was so much better than Jerry Gray's at shutting down good offenses.

 

Again, see personnel. Or do you need to relive Chad "Crazy Legs" Pennington vs. Eddie Robinson?

 

The team TD inherited had a great defensive scheme, but not much in the way of an offensive scheme. TD therefore did the obvious: he completely dismantled the defensive scheme which had been so successful, and in some cases got rid of players who'd been chosen to fit that scheme.

 

Salary cap problems caused far more problems than people realize or they choose to ignore the problems created by the salary cap.

Bruce Smith was let go after the 1999 season because of the salary cap. Ted Washington left after the 2000 season because of the salary cap (he refused to take another pay cut).

 

TD did not "choose" to cut a bunch of defensive players. He had no choice. He barely had room in the salary cap to sign the rookies.

If anything, that was the best time to switch defensive schemes.

 

Pat Williams had been a very important part of Wade's 3-4 defense. He was a perfect fit for the NT position. On running plays, he'd use up two blockers and not get moved. On pass plays, he'd often use up two blockers also. When the Bills switched from the 3-4 to the 4-3, he became less good of a fit. As he started to reach an age at which defensive linemen often decline, TD made the decision to let him go. However, it turned out that the summertime of Williams' career lasted considerably longer than one might have expected.

 

You know who was more important than Pat Williams? Ted Washington, the starting NT.

Pat Williams came in on obvious passing downs and short yardage situations.

[Orton's Arm]

Yes, let's do.

 

 

 

Apples to Oranges comparison.

Wade's defensive line consisted of players like Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, and Phil Hansen

 

The closest example of a line that good is when Gray got to work with Pat Williams, Sam Adams, and Schobel. Do you even remember the player on the opposite side of the line?

 

 

 

A 4-3 and a 3-4 have both strengths and weaknesses.

Neither one is inherently better overall than the other one.

 

Yes, in a 3-4, you can send in a LB from different positions, but it's still a 240lb LB vs a 300+lb OL.

If the OL gets his paws on the LB, care to guess who wins that battle?

 

In a 4-3 (traditional), it's a 300lb DT vs 300+lb OL. Pass protection just got a whole lot tougher.

 

 

 

Again, see personnel. Or do you need to relive Chad "Crazy Legs" Pennington vs. Eddie Robinson?

 

 

 

Salary cap problems caused far more problems than people realize or they choose to ignore the problems created by the salary cap.

Bruce Smith was let go after the 1999 season because of the salary cap. Ted Washington left after the 2000 season because of the salary cap (he refused to take another pay cut).

 

TD did not "choose" to cut a bunch of defensive players. He had no choice. He barely had room in the salary cap to sign the rookies.

If anything, that was the best time to switch defensive schemes.

 

 

 

You know who was more important than Pat Williams? Ted Washington, the starting NT.

Pat Williams came in on obvious passing downs and short yardage situations.

 

> Apples to Oranges comparison.

> Wade's defensive line consisted of players like Bruce Smith, Ted Washington, Pat Williams, and Phil Hansen

 

> The closest example of a line that good is when Gray got to work with Pat Williams, Sam Adams, and Schobel.

> Do you even remember the player on the opposite side of the line?

 

Of the four defensive linemen you mentioned for the late '90s defense, two (Bruce Smith and Phil Hansen) were aging, and well past their primes. An aging, declining Bruce Smith is not necessarily better than Aaron Schobel in his prime. Similarly, an aging Phil Hansen is not necessarily better than Chris Kelsay in his prime. Sam Adams was roughly equivalent to either Pat Williams or Ted Washington. The Bills retained Pat Williams through the end of the 2004 season. Gray's defenses had a lot of talent and money invested in the back seven: Lawyer Milloy, Troy Vincent, Nate Clements, London Fletcher, Takeo Spikes, etc.

 

> A 4-3 and a 3-4 have both strengths and weaknesses.

> Neither one is inherently better overall than the other one.

 

The defenses that Wade Phillips and Jerry Gray built were roughly comparable in terms of talent. But Wade's defenses were much better able to contain good offenses than Gray's defenses had been. That in itself does not prove that every 3-4 is better than every 4-3. But it does prove that Wade's 3-4 was much better schematically than Gregg's/Jerry's 4-3.

 

> Yes, in a 3-4, you can send in a LB from different positions, but it's still a 240lb LB vs a 300+lb OL.

> If the OL gets his paws on the LB, care to guess who wins that battle?

 

Some of the LBs in a 3-4 are supposed to be significantly heavier than 240 lbs, specifically to solve that problem. An ILB in a 3-4 doesn't have to cover as much space as a MLB in a 4-3; so the ILB can afford to trade away a little speed for size and strength.

 

> Salary cap problems caused far more problems than people realize or they choose to ignore the problems created by the salary cap.

 

I am well aware of the salary cap mess TD inherited from Butler.

 

> TD did not "choose" to cut a bunch of defensive players. He had no choice.

 

I do not object to his cutting aging, expensive players like Bruce Smith. My concern is that some of the younger, less expensive players on that defense were lost in the transition to the new scheme. In his last few years as GM, Butler hadn't exactly acquired oodles and oodles of good, young defensive talent. So it's not like we lost too much here. But we did lose some.

 

> If anything, that was the best time to switch defensive schemes.

 

Why switch defensive schemes at all when the new one was a big step down from the old one? The Bills' offensive schemes from the late '90s were mediocre at best, so why not hire an offensive-minded head coach capable of actually fixing those problems, while taking an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach to the Bills' defensive scheme?