White Linen Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Baaazing. Realistically, it is what it is - he could be a good player with some bad situations, could be a real issue. Just some extra red flags to dig down on. The fact that there are 3 incidents kind of lends itself to the formation of a pattern. Any college kid getting through without bending a few laws would be a major exception but you have to think for a star player to get nailed repeatedly there's a good chance there's something going on. Without knowing a ton about any of the incidents I wouldn't speak to strongly, just thought it was funny the direction the thread took there. I think it's obvious if you've read some comments above I've had a personal experience with a drunk driver. My wife's sister got killed by one. You're out drinking and the person enters that point where you're not in a non drinking state of mind. Then you have to be responsible enough in that frame of mind to make great decisions, and you're not. So obviously the decisions have to be made prior. You have to be mature or caring for the other people that could be on the road to think ahead. Does a DUI give you insight into how a person will do pursuing a football? No. But to say that it's a non issue is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I think it's obvious if you've read some comments above I've had a personal experience with a drunk driver. My wife's sister got killed by one. You're out drinking and the person enters that point where you're not in a non drinking state of mind. Then you have to be responsible enough in that frame of mind to make great decisions, and you're not. So obviously the decisions have to be made prior. You have to be mature or caring for the other people that could be on the road to think ahead. Does a DUI give you insight into how a person will do pursuing a football? No. But to say that it's a non issue is boring. Well, we don't know a ton about the incident, or the person. I'm not trying to excuse him here but we could find out he was at .08 on the dot, that its rare in his life, etc.... Or maybe he drives home after partying it up on the regular. If I'm a GM I'd look at those situations differently with trying to project his next 10 years as my employee. The morality of drunk driving and the evaluation of him as a player is certainly not the same conversation even if there's some overlap in them. Either conversation starts with him needing to learn a lesson here though. Edited February 17, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 The limit is not arbitrary, it's set to account for that person who has had just a couple of drinks. This is a bunch of BS excuse-making. If someone is fiddling with a device and it's resulting in reckless driving there are laws against that too. The person who does this with the result of an accident will be called reckless or negligent, as they should be. It's not a magic number that designates anything other than a presumption that someone might be impaired. Most drunk driving fatalaties are a result of BACs 2-3x that limit. It also can't take into account different tolerances. I guarantee my .12 is a lot clearer than the average Joe's .08. And your bit about laws addressing reckless driving is BS because if this guy got charged with reckless driving, which can be just as dangerous ad DUI, we wouldn't be having this discussion. I think it's obvious if you've read some comments above I've had a personal experience with a drunk driver. My wife's sister got killed by one. You're out drinking and the person enters that point where you're not in a non drinking state of mind. Then you have to be responsible enough in that frame of mind to make great decisions, and you're not. So obviously the decisions have to be made prior. You have to be mature or caring for the other people that could be on the road to think ahead. Does a DUI give you insight into how a person will do pursuing a football? No. But to say that it's a non issue is boring. Most adults have driven drunk before. That's just the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well, we don't know a ton about the incident, or the person. I'm not trying to excuse him here but we could find out he was at .08 on the dot, that its rare in his life, etc.... Or maybe he drives home after partying it up on the regular. If I'm a GM I'd look at those situations differently with trying to project his next 10 years as my employee. The morality of drunk driving and the evaluation of him as a player is certainly not the same conversation even if there's some overlap in them. Either conversation starts with him needing to learn a lesson here though. Yeah that's pretty much what I was trying to say. The most important thing to find out is will he do it again. The fortunate thing (if there is one) about drinking and driving is, if no one gets hurt there's instanlty an opportunity to start fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 It's not a magic number that designates anything other than a presumption that someone might be impaired. Most drunk driving fatalaties are a result of BACs 2-3x that limit. It also can't take into account different tolerances. I guarantee my .12 is a lot clearer than the average Joe's .08. And your bit about laws addressing reckless driving is BS because if this guy got charged with reckless driving, which can be just as dangerous ad DUI, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Most adults have driven drunk before. That's just the way it is. Whether it's just as dangerous or not is a moot point. We know not to do it and it usually takes a horrific result or an arrest for people to wake up. A drunk driver is making a decision, while under the influence, that their own power or control over the situation is the most important factor - not the lives of others on the road or in its vicinity. The person texting while driving is doing something pretty much just as bad, but they can at least be said to be making a decision with a straight frame of mind. The randomness of fate when we are on the road should be enough to drive someone who is over the limit to call a cab. If you're responsible enough to go out and have a few drinks and handle yourself, you should take equal responsibility for yourself when you are over the legal limit. Wait an hour, get something to eat, drink some water, or call a friend or a cab. If you don't like the law, go change it. I think it's in place for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Alec had a prior for theft in 2010, and a dirty drug test cost him four games last season... Stay outta frickin' jail, you guys... Lay low for one stinkin' off-season, then get all the things you want. I think that is the distinction to be drawn here...one DWI is understandable. A DWI along with a theft and a dirty drug suspension screams "I can't be disciplined" (a la Dez Bryant). We don't need a choir boy...but we also don't need interruptions for the next 4 or 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Whether it's just as dangerous or not is a moot point. We know not to do it and it usually takes a horrific result or an arrest for people to wake up. A drunk driver is making a decision, while under the influence, that their own power or control over the situation is the most important factor - not the lives of others on the road or in its vicinity. The person texting while driving is doing something pretty much just as bad, but they can at least be said to be making a decision with a straight frame of mind. The randomness of fate when we are on the road should be enough to drive someone who is over the limit to call a cab. If you're responsible enough to go out and have a few drinks and handle yourself, you should take equal responsibility for yourself when you are over the legal limit. Wait an hour, get something to eat, drink some water, or call a friend or a cab. If you don't like the law, go change it. I think it's in place for a reason. From a moral standpoint that makes it even worse. At least the drunk driver's judgment was potentially impaired when he decided to drive. The person texting while driving has no such excuse. Plus, you're conflating the issues. Claiming that a DUI does not necessarily mean a person has poor character does not equate to a call for the repeal of DUI restrictions. Although a lot of the DUI penalties are idiotic. Edited February 17, 2013 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 From a moral standpoint that makes it even worse. At least the drunk driver's judgment was potentially impaired when he decided to drive. The person texting while driving has no such excuse. I just don't see how "I drank too much to be able to make good decisions" is an excuse, and I don't let either person off the hook. Both are making extremely stupid decisions. One of them is putting themselves in the position where they are more likely to make cascading bad or negligent decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I just don't see how "I drank too much to be able to make good decisions" is an excuse, and I don't let either person off the hook. Both are making extremely stupid decisions. One of them is putting themselves in the position where they are more likely to make cascading bad or negligent decisions. I didn't say it was an excuse. I pointed out the flaw in your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ny33 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I still think there will be 3 guys drafted in RD1 who have an arrest record: Ogletree, Damontre Moore, and Okafor. Don't forget about Kenny Vaccaro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 I didn't say it was an excuse. I pointed out the flaw in your logic. You said that the person texting while driving had no such excuse! It's your own words, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 "Ogletree had also missed Georgia's first four games this season for reportedly failing drug tests, and he was suspended the first game of his freshman season as well after being arrested for stealing a track athlete's motorcycle helmet." http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2013/02/17/alec-ogletree-dui-arrest-georgia-nfl-draft-combine/1926089/. I have an open mind. I don't endorse drinking and driving but back in the dinosaur era of the late 70s I did it a few times when I was a college student. I was lucky that no one got hurt. Olgetree has other issues as noted. Talented kid but need to steer clear of. The BIlls need to ace this pick and not get a guy who can be a bust due ot off the field issues. He is a risk the Bills will not take, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 You said that the person texting while driving had no such excuse! It's your own words, man! Seriously, dude. I don't want to be ugly, but you're starting to get on my nerves. You said drinking and driving was more blameworthy than texting while driving. I gave a logical reason for concluding that the converse was true. That does not equate to a statement that either is blameless. I'm not playing this 1 + 1 = 3.5 game with you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2013 Author Share Posted February 17, 2013 From a moral standpoint that makes it even worse. At least the drunk driver's judgment was potentially impaired when he decided to drive. The person texting while driving has no such excuse. Plus, you're conflating the issues. Claiming that a DUI does not necessarily mean a person has poor character does not equate to a call for the repeal of DUI restrictions. Although a lot of the DUI penalties are idiotic. Honest question: are you one of the good people you know that's made this mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Seriously, dude. I don't want to be ugly, but you're starting to get on my nerves. You said drinking and driving was more blameworthy than texting while driving. I gave a logical reason for concluding that the converse was true. That does not equate to a statement that either is blameless. I'm not playing this 1 + 1 = 3.5 game with you anymore. Fine with me. A DUI may not mean a person doesn't have good character, but it certainly throws it into question, especially when the guy has the opportunity of a lifetime awaiting him - one that will rely in no small part on the evaluation of his character and judgment. Your opinion is your own and you're entitled to it. Sorry to have touched a nerve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Honest question: are you one of the good people you know that's made this mistake? I've never had a DUI (knock on wood) To expand a bit: I know a guy who just got a DUI. He blew .09 and was pulled for going 10 mph over on a very wide and empty 45 mph zone. He drinks frequently, has a high tolerance, and is a good dude. This is not the guy that's going to kill a family. By contrast, I know a girl who got a DUI driving like a maniac, speeding through red lights, with a baby in the back who wasn't even strapped into the car seat, while over double the legal limit. She is the type to get people killed. These two incidents are not comparable in my thinking. The first guy is of minimal danger; I don't consider what he did any more dangerous than someone driving recklessly, probably even less so because he was being careful. The girl, on the other hand, is a danger to society and needs to be dealt with much more harshly. But we, as a society, tend to see "DUI" and apply the same label to both. Edited February 17, 2013 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 UGA has a weird dynamic as a program. The football team brings in mostly kids from tough neighborhoods around Atlanta, and then moves them about an hour away from home, while at the same time making them even larger fish in a much smaller pond in Athens. Mark Richt doesnt help anything being fairly soft as a coach, and being very willing to trade character for potential. Heck, 3 years ago the AD made a big speech about cleaning up the program, and then was arrested then next week. Best part of that Damon Evans story was that the married father of two also had a young chippie in the care with him at like 2 am when he was drunk. I think he initially tried to pass her off as "just a friend" but then the truth came out (some of it quite kinky IIRC)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 This, to me, is a non-issue. I don't see a DUI as a reflection of poor character. I know plenty of people with great character who have gotten DUIs. Probably because they managed not KILL anyone in a fiery crash. If they had, would you feel the same? This shouldn't hurt his draft stock, but let's not portray drunk-driving as some benign offense. It can be LETHAL, and often times is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 Well assuming he'll be at the combine that's where we'll get to break him down mentally and see what kind of a person he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted February 17, 2013 Share Posted February 17, 2013 This is BS man. The problem is it's so common it gets fluffed off as evidenced by you're statement "I know plenty of people with great character who have gotten DUIs." People with character aren't willing to kill families because they are too selfish or lazy to get a ride home by other means. I don't care about this idiot kid, but saying DUI's are non issues is ridiculous. Big time agree. I know a guy who killed 3 people in a DUI crash, only thing that spared him hard time, was the other driver was drunk too. -Still cost him three and a half years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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