Levitre: Hasn't heard anything from the Bills yet

[3rdand12]

As they say, let's agree to disagree. And I am a fan of Wood. He is a bruiser, and he has a great work ethic. But Levitre would be harder to replace imo. He is a great pass protector and gets good angles on running plays. It would be awful to lose him.

This was brought up on B rumblings today ine general. Next year Wood comes uo and will demand/deserve? elite money.

I prefer Levitre. Wood is great when not injured and a leader but he has been injured. and the team suffers greatly. we cant afford that risk.

sign Andy. trade Eric while he is healthy.

i can t believe i said that. But it is business after all

[Bill from NYC]

What you are hearing from Levitre is called lip service, and a fair amount of people are eating it up. Regardless of what is being said, it was his intent to test FA all along. And no, we couldn't have "locked him up" last year either without overpaying.

 

You could be right. Some players are willing to take the risk of injury to be ufas

Clements was a perfect example of this. He wanted out of Buffalo. I heard him say it on Sirius.

Looking back, it wasn't THE worst move to let Clements walk. Teams should never devote a ton of cap space to corners. If you don't believe me, ask the jets, raiders or eagles.

[Coach Tuesday]

I wonder if the team is having cash flow issues. It's more common than you think.

[QCity]

You could be right. Some players are willing to take the risk of injury to be ufas

 

It's a lot easier to take that risk when you've never been injured. Also people have to understand that the agencies representing NFL players today are extremely sophisticated. They chart out and project all the possible UFAs and RFAs in the upcoming years. I'd wager they assign a "% chance to be franchised tagged" stat to each client as well as a host of other metrics. Your client has a chance to be the #1 available FA at his position next year?? Cha-Ching! Coach him to say he loves his team and just wants to play football, nobody likes a malcontent. Even Jerry knew it.

 

Clements was a perfect example of this. He wanted out of Buffalo. I heard him say it on Sirius.

Looking back, it wasn't THE worst move to let Clements walk. Teams should never devote a ton of cap space to corners. If you don't believe me, ask the jets, raiders or eagles.

 

Agreed, perfect example of a very good player that got paid far more than he was worth. Would love to have kept him, but not for $80M.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

All the talk on the first page about signing one first so you know what you have to negotiate with is a bunch of hogwash. You don't have to have a degree in mathematics to run numbers based on scenario. You don't have to even have a high school diploma. This is basic math.

 

Stupid Bills doing the same stupid things.

 

I agree with Levitre, What the Heck is going on at OBD? Do they have any type of solid offseason plan or they just gonna wing it? And by the way, how does Buddy Nix have a job??? We're right back to square one again...

 

You guys have the same avatar.

[thebandit27]

This was brought up on B rumblings today ine general. Next year Wood comes uo and will demand/deserve? elite money.

I prefer Levitre. Wood is great when not injured and a leader but he has been injured. and the team suffers greatly. we cant afford that risk.

sign Andy. trade Eric while he is healthy.

i can t believe i said that. But it is business after all

 

Not that this should change your opinion, but according to NFL.com's Dan Jeremiah (former NFL scout), offensive and defensive line coaches around the NFL generally view Wood as the superior player. Not only that, but he's apparently viewed as one of the league's top OL-men in general. I found the commentary on Wood in the following column quite interesting:

 

NFL Podium Awards - Offensive Line

[JohnC]

As they say, let's agree to disagree. And I am a fan of Wood. He is a bruiser, and he has a great work ethic. But Levitre would be harder to replace imo. He is a great pass protector and gets good angles on running plays. It would be awful to lose him.

 

I like Levitre a lot. But the issue is what is his value and how much is he worth. This is a good year to be a quality offensive lineman in the free agent market. He is one of the better guards on the market with a number of teams that want to shore up their lines before entering the draft. From a cap and production standpoint the market works in the players favor at the expense of the team he is currently playing for.

 

I see the same scenario playing out as it did with Paul Posluszny when he became a free agent. A good player getting paid more than he is worth to the team he was with. The Bills made the right decision when they let Paul P depart. The mistake they made is that the draft pick they made to replace him, Sheppard, has so far turned out to be a dud. If the Bills can come up with a decent guard to replace Levitre then that would be a decent fallback position.

 

Bill, don't allow your player infatuation to cloud your hard-nosed business and football sense. Making the right decision is not always easy, but it is necessary.

[1B4IDie]

 

 

Not that this should change your opinion, but according to NFL.com's Dan Jeremiah (former NFL scout), offensive and defensive line coaches around the NFL generally view Wood as the superior player. Not only that, but he's apparently viewed as one of the league's top OL-men in general. I found the commentary on Wood in the following column quite interesting:

 

NFL Podium Awards - Offensive Line

The best O-lineman are on the field.

Stalwart is the most important characteristic.

Levitre is Stalwart.

 

I really don't understand the logic Levitre has played C,G even LT in a pinch and hasn't missed a game. These types of O-linemen do not grow on trees and when you find one you lock them up in a long term contract and pay them as one of the best in the league. That is if you are a serious NFL organization and not a laughing stock.

[Sisyphean Bills]

The best O-lineman are on the field.

Stalwart is the most important characteristic.

Levitre is Stalwart.

 

I really don't understand the logic Levitre has played C,G even LT in a pinch and hasn't missed a game. These types of O-linemen do not grow on trees and when you find one you lock them up in a long term contract and pay them as one of the best in the league. That is if you are a serious NFL organization and not a laughing stock.

 

Sure, but think about all the fantasizing over "something better" that you'd miss out on.

[clearwater cadet]

I can't remember the details, but I remember 2 preseasons ago, gaily sat Levitre and because of injury he was put back in the line up, and seemed to play well in the regular season. I also remember reading that Nix likes his guards to be big (320+ range). Does anyone remember what the problem was 2 years ago. Maybe Nix doesn't really value him, I think he was drafts by the Jauron staff.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Maybe it’s just me, but the more I think about it, the less I care about the Bills re signing Levitre.

 

I agree that he is a great guard but he already said during the season or maybe it was his agent, that he would be testing free agency.

 

If he truly wanted to stay with Buffalo, I am sure he would have made it easier for them to sign him or even give in a little on the asking price. You could call it a hometown discount.

 

When a player leaves a team to go to the highest bidder, you can’t help but question how much they actually wanted to re sign with their original team. Especially if there wasn’t that big a price gap between the two offers.

 

CBF

[thebandit27]

The best O-lineman are on the field.

Stalwart is the most important characteristic.

Levitre is Stalwart.

 

I really don't understand the logic Levitre has played C,G even LT in a pinch and hasn't missed a game. These types of O-linemen do not grow on trees and when you find one you lock them up in a long term contract and pay them as one of the best in the league. That is if you are a serious NFL organization and not a laughing stock.

 

1) That wasn't my opinion, it was the opinion of offensive and defensive line coaches around the NFL. That said, I do agree that Wood is the better player (when they're both on the field).

 

2) As I've said many times in this thread, FA hasn't started yet...let's see what happens before we lose it over Levitre leaving.

 

3) Yes, Levitre is versatile and consistent, that doesn't make him one of the best in the league. He's good, and I'm glad we have him, but if you ask me (and nobody did), the dropoff between him and guys like Brandon Moore, Matt Slauson, Louis Vasquez, Kevin Boothe, or Ramon Foster isn't huge, if it's even noticable at all. If the gap in compensation is significant, it's probably a better team decision to let Levitre go and sign one of those guys for perhaps a fraction of the cost.

 

All that said, I'm totally in favor of keeping him, as long as it's not a bank-breaker. He's not Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, or even Marshall Yanda. He's very good, not great.

[RuntheDamnBall]

I really don't understand the logic Levitre has played C,G even LT in a pinch and hasn't missed a game. These types of O-linemen do not grow on trees and when you find one you lock them up in a long term contract and pay them as one of the best in the league. That is if you are a serious NFL organization and not a laughing stock.

People don't care. They think we'll be just as good with Rhinehart (at best) or the next Bennie Anderson, Derrick Dockery, Mike Pucillo, Tutan Reyes, etc. And they think we'll somehow have enough depth (which has always been a problem) after moving one of our reserves up in the depth chart. Or, they think that creating a hole and burning a valuable top ten pick on a replacement guard is a good idea.

 

It's all lunacy to me. If Levitre wants anything under $8MM a year and 15-20MM guaranteed, there is no reason not to do this.

 

1) That wasn't my opinion, it was the opinion of offensive and defensive line coaches around the NFL. That said, I do agree that Wood is the better player (when they're both on the field).

 

2) As I've said many times in this thread, FA hasn't started yet...let's see what happens before we lose it over Levitre leaving.

 

3) Yes, Levitre is versatile and consistent, that doesn't make him one of the best in the league. He's good, and I'm glad we have him, but if you ask me (and nobody did), the dropoff between him and guys like Brandon Moore, Matt Slauson, Louis Vasquez, Kevin Boothe, or Ramon Foster isn't huge, if it's even noticable at all. If the gap in compensation is significant, it's probably a better team decision to let Levitre go and sign one of those guys for perhaps a fraction of the cost.

 

All that said, I'm totally in favor of keeping him, as long as it's not a bank-breaker. He's not Carl Nicks, Jahri Evans, or even Marshall Yanda. He's very good, not great.

Re: your #3, that's all well and good, but you are going to have to pay premium to get one of those guys to come here, where there should be a bit of an advantage in getting Levitre to a contract that isn't way "over-slot" because he knows what we have and does have some meaningful connections.

[thebandit27]

People don't care. They think we'll be just as good with Rhinehart (at best) or the next Bennie Anderson, Derrick Dockery, Mike Pucillo, Tutan Reyes, etc. And they think we'll somehow have enough depth (which has always been a problem) after moving one of our reserves up in the depth chart. Or, they think that creating a hole and burning a valuable top ten pick on a replacement guard is a good idea.

 

It's all lunacy to me. If Levitre wants anything under $8MM a year and 15-20MM guaranteed, there is no reason not to do this.

 

 

Re: your #3, that's all well and good, but you are going to have to pay premium to get one of those guys to come here, where there should be a bit of an advantage in getting Levitre to a contract that isn't way "over-slot" because he knows what we have and does have some meaningful connections.

 

Or, they think that the dropoff between him and guys like Brandon Moore, Matt Slauson, Louis Vasquez, Kevin Boothe, or Ramon Foster isn't huge, if it's even noticable at all, as I said above.

 

Sort of how a team like New Orleans thinks that the gap between Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs isn't big enough to justify the $3M/year salary difference, so they let him walk, and still boast the #2 offense in the NFL. Or how a team like Baltimore thinks that the gap between Ben Grubbs and an inexperienced 3rd round pick isn't big enough to justify the $5M/year salary difference, so they let him walk (and spend a 2nd round pick on another OG), and win the Superbowl.

 

Look, there's no iron-clad, single way to build a team. If Buffalo signs one of the other FA guards for 1/2 the salary that Levitre commands, and he's 90% of the player that Levitre is, it's a better move IMO, especially if the salary difference goes to filling another positional need, like a starting MLB for instance. And I don't think it's difficult to get a FA guard to come here, especially a guy like Moore, who worked extensively with our head coach when making his position switch from DT to OG in his early years. You're right though, it's no guarantee, which is why I think giving a reasonable contract to Levitre is the best course of action.

Edited March 6, 2013 by thebandit27

[Like A Mofo]

Let's be clear on this. Andy Levitre is a goner from Buffalo. He will make much more hitting the FA market. He would be the #1 target for OL in FA.

 

He actually would be foolish $ wise to stay in Buffalo.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Or, they think that the dropoff between him and guys like Brandon Moore, Matt Slauson, Louis Vasquez, Kevin Boothe, or Ramon Foster isn't huge, if it's even noticable at all, as I said above.

 

Sort of how a team like New Orleans thinks that the gap between Carl Nicks and Ben Grubbs isn't big enough to justify the $3M/year salary difference, so they let him walk, and still boast the #2 offense in the NFL. Or how a team like Baltimore thinks that the gap between Ben Grubbs and an inexperienced 3rd round pick isn't big enough to justify the $5M/year salary difference, so they let him walk (and spend a 2nd round pick on another OG), and win the Superbowl.

 

Look, there's no iron-clad, single way to build a team. If Buffalo signs one of the other FA guards for 1/2 the salary that Levitre commands, and he's 90% of the player that Levitre is, it's a better move IMO, especially if the salary difference goes to filling another positional need, like a starting MLB for instance.

Great, but you didn't answer my concern, which is, to let Levitre go means you are BANKING on getting one of these other FA guards. Since they are human beings who might have the same feelings about Buffalo that other people do, how can you guarantee that? And I'll wager that you are not getting any of them to Buffalo without paying a premium. And what happens when none of them bite? What happens if they do come here, at 75% of the salary, and they flop or don't have chemistry with their linemates? A bird in the hand, my friend. You have to be careful.

[thebandit27]

Let's be clear on this. Andy Levitre is a goner from Buffalo. He will make much more hitting the FA market. He would be the #1 target for OL in FA.

 

He actually would be foolish $ wise to stay in Buffalo.

 

Okay then, who is it that already signed him? And when does the NFL sanction them for illegally signing him before FA started?

 

Or, are you just guessing? Let's be clear on it.

[Shoutbox]

Let's be clear on this. Andy Levitre is a goner from Buffalo. He will make much more hitting the FA market. He would be the #1 target for OL in FA.

 

He actually would be foolish $ wise to stay in Buffalo.

 

Now let me - Marc Miller - be clear on this: if Levitre doesn't get re-signed, there will be a massive ticket boycott from an already very angry fanbase.

 

The guy's wife is from Buffalo. He wants to be here. Pay the man and move forward. Stop creating new holes while trying to fill current ones.

[thebandit27]

Great, but you didn't answer my concern, which is, to let Levitre go means you are BANKING on getting one of these other FA guards. Since they are human beings who might have the same feelings about Buffalo that other people do, how can you guarantee that? And I'll wager that you are not getting any of them to Buffalo without paying a premium. And what happens when none of them bite? What happens if they do come here, at 75% of the salary, and they flop or don't have chemistry with their linemates? A bird in the hand, my friend. You have to be careful.

 

I did answer it after I saw it in your second post. I said that the best course of action was to get Levitre under contract at a reasonable price (i.e. less than $7M). I don't think it takes a premium to get one of the other guys either...I'd be surprised if any of them got more than $5M per...

[RuntheDamnBall]

I don't think it takes a premium to get one of the other guys either...I'd be surprised if any of them got more than $5M per...

What makes you believe that? It didn't work for Tyson Clabo, and it won't work for most players. The Bills will be used as leverage in most negotiations and the only type of guy they will get here is the one that they overpay, IMO. It just isn't a prime destination yet.