Chan liked Kaepernick what happened?

[mrags]

FWIW, in the 2010 book, "Blood, Sweat and Chalk," Chan was quoted thus...

 

"The single wing stuff is going to become the norm in the future. Over the next 10 or 15 years it's going to evolve because the runner-thrower is the kind of quarterback that the college game is producing. You won't find a ton of the six-three, six-four, drop-back passer. They're not in college, so we're not getting them up here...

 

Pretty soon somebody is going to find an athlete who can run and throw and just take the conventional quarterback off the field."

 

The 49ers are not a single wing offense but Kaep is the type of running-throwing QB Chan sees becoming more prevalent in the future.

OMG. Starship Troopers was right all those years ago.

[first_and_ten]

are you kidding...we had too many holes to fill - we act like all we were missing back then was a qb and then hello super bowl

 

I don't think they all feel that quarterback was the missing piece. They realize that quarterback is the most important piece. Get your franchise quarterback and then you start to build the rest of the team.

[Coach Tuesday]

As others have pointed out, there are two issues, not one.

 

1. Nix is a rookie GM who has totally bungled the QB position. In most other cities and companies, executives like that get canned. In Buffalo, Nix and Regier get to stay the course (although my hope is still that he's shown the door after the draft).

 

2. Gailey couldn't find a defensive coordinator who could coach at a pro level. If he had done so, he would've made up for Nix's failures as a GM and would have saved his own job.

 

Two awful hires by an awful owner = more years of failure. It's that simple.

[Sisyphean Bills]

No reason to suspect otherwise.

Analytically speaking, of course.

 

I understand your point but with these aggressive defense's you have to admit that the statuesque pocket passer is now obsolete...the pocket passers that your referring to are not your dad's pocket passer. Hell even heavy-footed Flacco has learned to throw on the move, IMO. Of the traditional QB's that I grew up watching only young Farve & Marino (because quick release & presence in the pocket) could play in this day & time.

Flacco set the record for the 3 cone drill at the combine for a QB. Just because he is tall and lanky doesn't mean he can't move; he can and exceptionally well, in fact.

 

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Flacco set the record for the 3-cone drill at the combine?

 

Wow.

 

He looks like a baby giraffe out there at times.

[Brainiac21]

Look, all this talk / speculation about what Chan might have wanted and what Buddy might have wanted is nonsense! Chan Gailey stuck with Fitz because he an offensive moron, plain and simple. Chan tried for 3 years to magically transform Ryan Fitzpatrick into Tom Brady, and failed. 16-32 says it all,

 

Gailey wanted CJ Spiller in the 2010 draft and stated such months before the draft even took place, he wanted and got his "water bug"! If Gailey had wanted to draft a QB the last 3 years... my take is he would have gotten whatever he wanted for his offense.

 

Let's face some facts here, if anyone in on the Buffalo Bills staff, in any area, GM, HC, scouts knew that Kaepernick, Wilson or Dalton were going to be even remotely as good as they were, the Bills would have drafted them! They didn't know! So, all we can do as Bills fans is hope Doug Marrone knows how to properly evaluate QB talent, because Nix and Gailey showed us they were both clueless.

 

Only one person makes the final decision. "Know" is somewhat subjective... even Harbaugh didn't "know" or they'd take him in the first. But you can get a pretty good idea. I have an article saved where the Bills western scout raved about Kaepernick, especially his intangibles. The article sugested the Bills may take him in the 2nd. Had Chand and that scout been in charge of the draft, I bet they take him. Buddy admitted he liked him just a few weeks ago and saw him himself... he just did not think he'd learn an NFL offense quick enough. He was living in the past and still did not see how quick these guys can play IF you build the offense to their strengths. He was also slow to realize the trend in elevating QB's above their rating becuase of their importance. And worst of all, they vastly overrated Aaron Williams.

 

Chan stuck with Fitz b/c he felt he was the best QB in the roster. He was probably right. but that doesn't mean he didn't see his flaws or wouldn't have preferred someone else. they did want Cam Newton after all.

[hondo in seattle]

Only one person makes the final decision. "Know" is somewhat subjective... even Harbaugh didn't "know" or they'd take him in the first. But you can get a pretty good idea. I have an article saved where the Bills western scout raved about Kaepernick, especially his intangibles. The article sugested the Bills may take him in the 2nd. Had Chand and that scout been in charge of the draft, I bet they take him. Buddy admitted he liked him just a few weeks ago and saw him himself... he just did not think he'd learn an NFL offense quick enough. He was living in the past and still did not see how quick these guys can play IF you build the offense to their strengths. He was also slow to realize the trend in elevating QB's above their rating becuase of their importance. And worst of all, they vastly overrated Aaron Williams.

 

Chan stuck with Fitz b/c he felt he was the best QB in the roster. He was probably right. but that doesn't mean he didn't see his flaws or wouldn't have preferred someone else. they did want Cam Newton after all.

 

+1.

 

Chan failed as a Head Coach but I don't know how much the QB is his fault. Of course publicly he supported Fitz. Most coaches will do that to boost the player's confidence. It's simple psychology (Google: "Pygmalion Effect"). We just don't how Chan privately evaluated Fitz nor how much he may have (or may not have) lobbied for someone better like Kaep.

 

Comments to the effect that Gailey was an "offensive moron" are silly. I guess people talk like that because it makes them feel strong or smart. But when you look at Gailey's career, his offenses were often in the top ten. Even his performance with the Bills offense wasn't terrible given that he was working with a subpar QB and receiving corps. If Nix had drafted Kaep and Wanny ran a better defense, Chan might still have a job.

[Alphadawg7]

+1.

 

Chan failed as a Head Coach but I don't know how much the QB is his fault. Of course publicly he supported Fitz. Most coaches will do that to boost the player's confidence. It's simple psychology (Google: "Pygmalion Effect"). We just don't how Chan privately evaluated Fitz nor how much he may have (or may not have) lobbied for someone better like Kaep.

 

Comments to the effect that Gailey was an "offensive moron" are silly. I guess people talk like that because it makes them feel strong or smart. But when you look at Gailey's career, his offenses were often in the top ten. Even his performance with the Bills offense wasn't terrible given that he was working with a subpar QB and receiving corps. If Nix had drafted Kaep and Wanny ran a better defense, Chan might still have a job.

 

I think the reason people feel like Gailey was an "offensive moron" is not because Gailey does not know how to create offense, but he was too stubborn to adjust to the talents of the team. How many times did we the run game going off at 5-7 yards a run, somtimes over 10 yards per run in the first half, just to see him run 3 or 4 times in a close game in the second half and instead rely on a bad QB to throw non stop?

 

Gailey refused to feature the run game like he should have. We were undefeated this year in games where we ran 50/50 to pass or ran more than passed. We were win less in games where we threw more than we ran. And let me tell you, there were only 2 games where we so far behind in the 2nd half that we had to play catchup and one could validate throwing a lot more. Many games we had a dominant running attack going yet he would just still throw almost entirely in the 2nd half. In fact, in the games where we ran a lot more we won pretty easily and controlled the whole games. In the games where the ratio was close to 50/50 we won, but struggled later when he started throwing too much again. Clearly, the run game needed to be used better and he just didnt adjust.

 

So, he was a "moron" in the sense that he rather put the ball too often into an incapable QB's hands rather than balance the attack with the most talented unit on the offense, the RB's.

Edited February 13, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[Jerry Jabber]

Not trying to be a "negative nancy," but if this is true, then it's just the same old typical Bills (drafting the wrong players). We all wanted Ngata, but got Whitner; Jauron & Levy wanted Revis, but Ralph wanted Lynch; fans wanted Orakpo/Matthews/Oher, instead we got Maybin. So add Kaepernick to that list.

 

Not trying to be a "negative nancy," but if this is true, then it's just the same old typical Bills (drafting the wrong players). We all wanted Ngata, but got Whitner; Jauron & Levy wanted Revis, but Ralph wanted Lynch; fans wanted Orakpo/Matthews/Oher, instead we got Maybin. So add Kaepernick to that list.

[peterpan]

Chan's trying to demonstrate his16-32 record in his 3 seasons wasn't all his fault. That and hopefully lay the groundwork for future work in the NFL,

 

This comment was made in what, 2011? That was after his 1st year as coach.

[FireChan]

I think the reason people feel like Gailey was an "offensive moron" is not because Gailey does not know how to create offense, but he was too stubborn to adjust to the talents of the team. How many times did we the run game going off at 5-7 yards a run, somtimes over 10 yards per run in the first half, just to see him run 3 or 4 times in a close game in the second half and instead rely on a bad QB to throw non stop?

 

Gailey refused to feature the run game like he should have. We were undefeated this year in games where we ran 50/50 to pass or ran more than passed. We were win less in games where we threw more than we ran. And let me tell you, there were only 2 games where we so far behind in the 2nd half that we had to play catchup and one could validate throwing a lot more. Many games we had a dominant running attack going yet he would just still throw almost entirely in the 2nd half. In fact, in the games where we ran a lot more we won pretty easily and controlled the whole games. In the games where the ratio was close to 50/50 we won, but struggled later when he started throwing too much again. Clearly, the run game needed to be used better and he just didnt adjust.

 

So, he was a "moron" in the sense that he rather put the ball too often into an incapable QB's hands rather than balance the attack with the most talented unit on the offense, the RB's.

 

What about the games we averaged 2 yards a carry, like the Houston and San Fran games? Oh and 2 games this year were the only ones we could justify throwing a lot? 1.Jets blowout, 2 and 3 Both Patriots blowouts, 4 Houston defense blowing up everything 5 San Fran defense blowing up everything 6. Seattle blowout.

 

C'mon man, I think Chan made some mistakes, but 80% of the time he called a pass play, it was justified. And you can't throw out "the throwing while we're down" argument unless you throw out the "running while we're up" one too. It works both ways. When we were winning, we ran more to tire out their defense and control the clock. Causation and correlation 101.

[Brainiac21]

I think the reason people feel like Gailey was an "offensive moron" is not because Gailey does not know how to create offense, but he was too stubborn to adjust to the talents of the team. How many times did we the run game going off at 5-7 yards a run, somtimes over 10 yards per run in the first half, just to see him run 3 or 4 times in a close game in the second half and instead rely on a bad QB to throw non stop?

 

Gailey refused to feature the run game like he should have. We were undefeated this year in games where we ran 50/50 to pass or ran more than passed. We were win less in games where we threw more than we ran. And let me tell you, there were only 2 games where we so far behind in the 2nd half that we had to play catchup and one could validate throwing a lot more. Many games we had a dominant running attack going yet he would just still throw almost entirely in the 2nd half. In fact, in the games where we ran a lot more we won pretty easily and controlled the whole games. In the games where the ratio was close to 50/50 we won, but struggled later when he started throwing too much again. Clearly, the run game needed to be used better and he just didnt adjust.

 

So, he was a "moron" in the sense that he rather put the ball too often into an incapable QB's hands rather than balance the attack with the most talented unit on the offense, the RB's.

 

but let's face it.. when you lose every takes issue with play calls no matter who it is. we hated Kevin Gilbride when he was here too for passing to much at the end of games, and he went and won 2 super bowls. these guys go less off stats and more with what they see and what should work based on the D, or expected D. if it looks like they are loading to stop the run, percentages say that a pass should work. but a bad throw or dropped ball so often would kill what should be a first down... a first down that would have allowed for a couple more running plays. i think the players definitely let Chan down in many cases where it was not necessarily the play calling, but the execution.

 

not that Chan was completely without fault. he may gave better realized the deficiencies of his QB and cast, and run more anyways. with a better offensive group or at least QB, he may have looked like a genius. same with the drafting of QB's. his track record of working with mediocrities suggests he was too optmistic about the guys he was working with. while i still blame Buddy, it does not seem Chan took it upon himself enough to stand up and demand better.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

but let's face it.. when you lose every takes issue with play calls no matter who it is. we hated Kevin Gilbride when he was here too for passing to much at the end of games, and he went and won 2 super bowls. these guys go less off stats and more with what they see and what should work based on the D, or expected D. if it looks like they are loading to stop the run, percentages say that a pass should work. but a bad throw or dropped ball so often would kill what should be a first down... a first down that would have allowed for a couple more running plays. i think the players definitely let Chan down in many cases where it was not necessarily the play calling, but the execution.

 

not that Chan was completely without fault. he may gave better realized the deficiencies of his QB and cast, and run more anyways. with a better offensive group or at least QB, he may have looked like a genius. same with the drafting of QB's. his track record of working with mediocrities suggests he was too optmistic about the guys he was working with. while i still blame Buddy, it does not seem Chan took it upon himself enough to stand up and demand better.

 

On the issue of play calling, I agree with Alpha more than I do with FireChan.

 

However your take above with its two main points is excellent.

 

Each play is its own entity.

 

Success precludes criticism while failure intensifies it.

[CardinalScotts]

I don't think they all feel that quarterback was the missing piece. They realize that quarterback is the most important piece. Get your franchise quarterback and then you start to build the rest of the team.

and kaepernick was a 3rd round pick the 49ers werent completly sold, signing alex smith to an extension

[San Jose Bills Fan]

and kaepernick was a 3rd round pick the 49ers werent completly sold, signing alex smith to an extension

 

Considering the Niners traded up for Kaepernick, I'd say they were sold on him.

 

The Smith extension (and the courtship of Peyton Manning) I would attribute to their belief that Kaepernick would take some time to develop.

 

That, and also the mentality that you should never under-address the quarterback position.

[Sisyphean Bills]

On the issue of play calling, I agree with Alpha more than I do with FireChan.

 

However your take above with its two main points is excellent.

 

Each play is its own entity.

 

Success precludes criticism while failure intensifies it.

Is Chan a genius for running the ball against defenses playing the pass and leading directly to gaudy rush yards per attempt or is he a fool for throwing against defenses stacking the box and taking the run away?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Is Chan a genius for running the ball against defenses playing the pass and leading directly to gaudy rush yards per attempt or is he a fool for throwing against defenses stacking the box and taking the run away?

 

[thewildrabbit]

I think the reason people feel like Gailey was an "offensive moron" is not because Gailey does not know how to create offense, but he was too stubborn to adjust to the talents of the team. How many times did we the run game going off at 5-7 yards a run, somtimes over 10 yards per run in the first half, just to see him run 3 or 4 times in a close game in the second half and instead rely on a bad QB to throw non stop?

 

Gailey refused to feature the run game like he should have. We were undefeated this year in games where we ran 50/50 to pass or ran more than passed. We were win less in games where we threw more than we ran. And let me tell you, there were only 2 games where we so far behind in the 2nd half that we had to play catchup and one could validate throwing a lot more. Many games we had a dominant running attack going yet he would just still throw almost entirely in the 2nd half. In fact, in the games where we ran a lot more we won pretty easily and controlled the whole games. In the games where the ratio was close to 50/50 we won, but struggled later when he started throwing too much again. Clearly, the run game needed to be used better and he just didnt adjust.

 

So, he was a "moron" in the sense that he rather put the ball too often into an incapable QB's hands rather than balance the attack with the most talented unit on the offense, the RB's.

Thank you Alpha, saved me the trouble.

 

What about the games we averaged 2 yards a carry, like the Houston and San Fran games? Oh and 2 games this year were the only ones we could justify throwing a lot? 1.Jets blowout, 2 and 3 Both Patriots blowouts, 4 Houston defense blowing up everything 5 San Fran defense blowing up everything 6. Seattle blowout.

 

C'mon man, I think Chan made some mistakes, but 80% of the time he called a pass play, it was justified. And you can't throw out "the throwing while we're down" argument unless you throw out the "running while we're up" one too. It works both ways. When we were winning, we ran more to tire out their defense and control the clock. Causation and correlation 101.

Mistakes? 16-32 .333% The biggest mistake was hiring the man as head coach. The man had every opportunity to build a proper offense with a drafted rookie QB or a free agent QB, he chose Fitz! Then tried to make an incapable player exceed his abilities. That is moronic in my book.

 

That SF game, Jackson had 9 attempts and Spiller had 7. Fitz went 16 of 26 for 126 yards. So the entire offense fell on its face, and not just the running game. But, that is exactly why Gailey is a moron. Because his teams looked decent against bad teams and horrific against the good teams. Meanwhile, the Bills defense set a new NFL record for allowing the very first ever 300 yard passing and 300 yards rushing in the same game. That was with Alex Smith at QB.

The Texans game Jackson 6 attempts, Spiller 6 attempts. Gailey didn't even try and run the ball.

The Seattle blowout Spiller had 103 rushing yards, but the Seahawks had 4 rushing touchdowns with 3 of them by the rookie QB that Buddy Nix was clueless about.

 

The Chan Gailey experiment was an utter failure in Buffalo, Greg Williams did better in 3 years, 17-31. Mike Mularkey did better in 2 years 14-18 .438%. Dick Jauron did better in 3 1/2 years 24-33 .421%

 

I can't wait for the day when Bills fans stop making excuses for one of the lamest Bills HCing hires in recent history.

[Alphadawg7]

What about the games we averaged 2 yards a carry, like the Houston and San Fran games? Oh and 2 games this year were the only ones we could justify throwing a lot? 1.Jets blowout, 2 and 3 Both Patriots blowouts, 4 Houston defense blowing up everything 5 San Fran defense blowing up everything 6. Seattle blowout.

 

C'mon man, I think Chan made some mistakes, but 80% of the time he called a pass play, it was justified. And you can't throw out "the throwing while we're down" argument unless you throw out the "running while we're up" one too. It works both ways. When we were winning, we ran more to tire out their defense and control the clock. Causation and correlation 101.

 

Not to be argumentative, but you are incorrect. I actually did an entire break down and posted it in another thread, and in the games where we passed more than we ran in the majority of the games we abandoned a run game that was working, were not behind big, and had no reason to keep passing, especially when the pass was not being effective.

 

And what you described is terrible coaching. You want to run, then you run...you don't let the defense dictate what you do, you dictate what you do. AP went off for almost an NFL record in rushing yards despite Minny not having Harvin most of the year or any passing game which made them face 8 and 9 man fronts all year. If your team is better running, then you run and the D will try and stop it. You do realize you do not have to run only when the D is not expecting it right? In fact in the VAST marjority of plays the defense is in a formation geared to stop the pass play when you are passing or the run play when you are running. Yet teams do it over and over again with success, including us. We had great success running the ball even when teams were geared to stop it.

 

And a couple times where we were averaging like 2.2 yards per carry, that was because we barely ran and had a couple short plays. You don't abandon the run game if your first 2, 3 or 4 plays don't rip off 10 yards each.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Alphadawg7

[pimp 2]

Analytically speaking, of course.

 

 

Flacco set the record for the 3 cone drill at the combine for a QB. Just because he is tall and lanky doesn't mean he can't move; he can and exceptionally well, in fact.

 

https://twitter.com/...840558491832321

 

It wasn't just that he could move but until this year he hadn't showed that he could also throw accurately while moving out of harms way ala Big Ben.

 

Are you sure about setting records at the combine? Or was that for his QB class...I'll also add timing in drills doesn't equate to real game speed...I still see Deion Sanders hawking Don Beebe (and his 4.37 time 40yd) in the game against Atlanta on a KO return where Don had a good 10 yd advantage. Do let me bring in the ultra fast J.D. Williams who was burnt on the regular when he played here...too many others that trained religiously to master those combine drills.