dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 That no holding calls on the Ravens on the safety play cost them almost 10 seconds. They may have got a Hail Mary off after the free kick. The game can not end on a defensive penalty if they heave it and get close! ?? How do you figure? Please explain. A play can't end until the player with the ball is either tackled or forced out of bounds (or throws an incomplete pass) regardless of how many penalties are called in the course of the play. It was smart coaching by the Ravens. Even if they had called a penalty, it wouldn't have changed a thing. BS he mugged him. You cant square a WR then hold him. If it was Stevie I cant begin to imagine the outrage. BS he mugged him. You cant square a WR then hold him. If it was Stevie I cant begin to imagine the outrage. You're kinda missing my point. Whatever holding occurred came after the ball was released, and then the only call you can make is interference. The ball wasn't catchable by any normal standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 ?? How do you figure? Please explain. A play can't end until the player with the ball is either tackled or forced out of bounds (or throws an incomplete pass) regardless of how many penalties are called in the course of the play. It was smart coaching by the Ravens. Even if they had called a penalty, it wouldn't have changed a thing. They could have got to the punter in 5 seconds quicker and force him out the back of the endzone, not the side. At least call the penalty so as not to look like they are "pushing" the outcome. Those players were TOLD to hold. That is not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomper Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 point made....but he grabbed him when he turned....gotta throw it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Funny how this season started with scabs and ended with scab like refs "pushing" the thing. They should have been staying with the replacements. Yes, mistakes would have been made... But at least things would looked like they were on the square! Edited February 5, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 5, 2013 Author Share Posted February 5, 2013 They could have got to the punter in 5 seconds quicker and force him out the back of the endzone, not the side. At least call the penalty so as not to look like they are "pushing" the outcome. Those players were TOLD to hold. That is not right. But they held!!!! And they could have been called for it and it wouldn't have made a difference!!! What is your point? The Super Bowl was on the line, and they did what they had to to do to win. The refs weren't relevant on that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 point made....but he grabbed him when he turned....gotta throw it +1 Pure definition of "Holding." End of story, follow the rules. You think BFLO gets the benny of doubt like Baltimore? LoL... We gotta be kidding! But they held!!!! And they could have been called for it and it wouldn't have made a difference!!! What is your point? The Super Bowl was on the line, and they did what they had to to do to win. The refs weren't relevant on that play. The intergrity of the game! Like I said, they shouldn't make things up as the game goes on. The refs are not in the position like you see them. They have to call it. It is not for them to take other factors into consideration. Did it break the rules? Yes. Throw it. The refs lost control of this game early (the scrapping and fighting). Poorest game I saw in a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 +1 Pure definition of "Holding." End of story, follow the rules. You think BFLO gets the benny of doubt like Baltimore? LoL... We gotta be kidding! The intergrity of the game! Like I said, they shouldn't make things up as the game goes on. The refs are not in the position like you see them. They have to call it. It is not for them to take other factors into consideration. Did it break the rules? Yes. Throw it. The refs lost control of this game early (the scrapping and fighting). Poorest game I saw in a long time! Explain what throwing the flag on the safety accomplishes? You keep talking about fumbles or Hail Marys but the clock, and score would be the same with the ravens lining up for a kick still.... They accept it - same outcome. They decline it - same outcome. The right call for the ravens was to hold. They should've done it longer, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Explain what throwing the flag on the safety accomplishes? You keep talking about fumbles or Hail Marys but the clock, and score would be the same with the ravens lining up for a kick still.... They accept it - same outcome. They decline it - same outcome. The right call for the ravens was to hold. They should've done it longer, frankly. Again. Agree to disagree. The refs are not in position to analyze things like you are doing. If it is a penalty, they have to throw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondslider Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Again. Agree to disagree. The refs are not in position to analyze things like you are doing. If it is a penalty, they have to throw it. But the point is even if they had thrown it the result of the play is exactly the same. Your real argument is that the Ravens shouldn't have held on the play which you can believe if you want, but it was good coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) I find it hilarious the 49ers are complaining about an iffy non-called pass intereference penalty when the reason they likely got to the super Bowl in the first place was because they themselves got away with an absolutely blatant pass interefence penalty against the Falcons on a 4th and 4 play deep inside the red zone at the end of their game. The 49ers LB held Julio Jones virtually the entire time as he ran across the middle of the field, then literally tackled him before the ball got there, causing an incomplete pass. Yet, they have the nerve to complain about a totally iffy call to begin with? Talk about hypocrites. Edited February 5, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 But the point is even if they had thrown it the result of the play is exactly the same. Your real argument is that the Ravens shouldn't have held on the play which you can believe if you want, but it was good coaching. Point taken. I will give you that. Players are coached to break the rules in that situation. Refs are not trained to over look a penalty even if they feel the outcome is decided. Why do they give penalties in the NHL @ the 20:00 minute mark of the 4th? Integrity of the game. I find it hilarious the 49ers are complaining about an iffy non-called pass intereference penalty when the reason they likely got to the super Bowl in the first place was because they themselves got away with an absolutely blatant pass interefence penalty against the Falcons on a 4th and 4 play deep inside the red zone at the end of their game. The 49ers LB held Julio Jonesvirtually the entire time as he ran across the middle of the field, then literally tackled him before the ball got there, causing an incomplete pass. Yet, they have the nerve to complain about a totally iffy call to begin with? Talk about hypocrites. It doesn't matter. The question is not about how deep they dug a hole for themselves. The question is: Did the refs fail to enforce the rules? The answer is yes. On two distinct and blantant plays. The refs are not to decipher the game. They are there to call and judge every moment and play and then move on to the next forgetting what happened in the past. Was there holding on 4th down? Yes. Was there holding on the safety play? Yes. What seems to be the problem. Just answer yes or no to those questions. No more, no less or anything else comes into play for this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomper Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I find it hilarious the 49ers are complaining about an iffy non-called pass intereference penalty when the reason they likely got to the super Bowl in the first place was because they themselves got away with an absolutely blatant pass interefence penalty against the Falcons on a 4th and 4 play deep inside the red zone at the end of their game. The 49ers LB held Julio Jones virtually the entire time as he ran across the middle of the field, then literally tackled him before the ball got there, causing an incomplete pass. Yet, they have the nerve to complain about a totally iffy call to begin with? Talk about hypocrites. Agree but we're talkng about a play-by-play basis. Crabtree got held. End of story. Flag has to be thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 It doesn't matter. The question is not about how deep they dug a hole for themselves. The question is: Did the refs fail to enforce the rules? The answer is yes. On two distinct and blantant plays. The refs are not to decipher the game. They are there to call and judge every moment and play and then move on to the next forgetting what happened in the past. Was there holding on 4th down? Yes. Was there holding on the safety play? Yes. What seems to be the problem. Just answer yes or no to those questions. No more, no less or anything else comes into play for this discussion. Karma has a way of coming back to bite you at the worst possible time, doesn't it? Agree but we're talkng about a play-by-play basis. Crabtree got held. End of story. Flag has to be thrown. Hey, if I was a reporter listening to the complaints I would have told them if they need a reminder of what blatant pass interference is to go back and see what they did to Julio Jones the previous game. Would have loved to see their response to that one, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gomper Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Karma has a way of coming back to bite you at the worst possible time, doesn't it? Hey, if I was a reporter listening to the complaints I would have told them if they need a reminder of what blatant pass interference is to go back and see what they did to Julio Jones the previous game. Would have loved to see their response to that one, lol Well, like I said....in this instance, he held him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) http://www.nfl.com/v...ay-s-last-stand Watch it again. In particular, watch where Crabtree is when the ball is released. He's at the 1 - four yards from the LOS. Given the five yard rule, Smith was basically within in his rights. More importantly, after the ball is released, the call - assuming you're going to make one -- BY DEFINITION has to be interference, not defensive holding. (You don't see this much because rarely will you see a pass released so quickly. Great defensive call by the Ravens there). And, since it could only be interference, there was no call to make because it was clearly and obviously uncatchable, landing out of bounds and far from any potential receiver even if there had been no contact. It was, after all, a desperation heave. Case closed. And no, I'm not a Ravens fan. Just a relatively impartial observer. I don't fully agree with your take but I am in agreement that it's better that the flag was not thrown. The defender held, crabtree pushed off...bad throw...let the guys play football... Good no call AND, Kaep's throw was rushed by a blitzer and while I disagree with Dave that it was uncatchable, it was still a poorly thrown ball. Off recollection, a back shoulder fade would have been a TD. Kaep's throw was a rushed desperation throw which while not horrible, but wasn't a good throw either. I find it hilarious the 49ers are complaining about an iffy non-called pass intereference penalty when the reason they likely got to the super Bowl in the first place was because they themselves got away with an absolutely blatant pass interefence penalty against the Falcons on a 4th and 4 play deep inside the red zone at the end of their game. The 49ers LB held Julio Jones virtually the entire time as he ran across the middle of the field, then literally tackled him before the ball got there, causing an incomplete pass. Yet, they have the nerve to complain about a totally iffy call to begin with? Talk about hypocrites. Yep. It was NaVarro Bowman who was covering on that play. Karma indeed. FWIW, I've not seen or heard too much complaining about that play here in the Bay Area. Edited February 5, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Yep. It was NaVarro Bowman who was covering on that play. Karma indeed. FWIW, I've not seen or heard too much complaining about that play here in the Bay Area. The first thing I thought of when I saw that was Darryl Talley's hold/tackle job on Ernest Givens in OT in the comeback game that allowed Odomes to get the interception and set up the winning FG... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeMhN7JIIvg The play in question comes at 6:28 Edited February 5, 2013 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) A holding call on the safety was moot. A flag would have netted the same result. In fact the lineman were instructed by their coach to hold cause it would have had same result and actually allowed more time for punter to waste. That being said, officiating is a joke in the NFL. I hate when people say this. Compared to who? It is a difficult task to ref an NFL game. Did it used to be better? Are there a group of men somewhere who you think would do a better job? It's like when people criticize weathermen. They are doing the best they can. Who would make a better weatherman? Derek Jeter is a joke. He only gets a base hit just over 30% of the time. Jack Nicholson is a joke, he deosn't win best actor every year. These refs are the best in the world at what they do and, based on the nature of their craft, they'll never be perfect. But no one would. Edited February 5, 2013 by metzelaars_lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poblano Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The defender held crabtree pushed off...bad throw...let the guys play football... Good no call The people is just watching that side of the play, but is worst the hold over D Walker in the midle of the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 9ers can complain all they want but thats the way refs had been calling it all game. Plenty of calls went in their favor too if one were to keep score. On that play even in regular probably only gets called 50% of time. Which makes 9ers whining even more inappropriate. In general refs should call it the same in post season as regular season. Keep it consistent. Also ylthis game almost got out of hand with the fighting because of the crap they were letting them get away with. Super bowl melee is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Then there is the running into the kicker that should had been roughing and a 15 w/automatic first down. Akers foot was still in the air... Then he go hurt and his kickoffs wer noticably shorter. THEN it may come down to a free kick fair catch? LoL... Now way Akers could reach the endzone anymore! To start the game he was kicking it 8 yards deep from his 35. If the Ravens punter would have shanked the final kicker... No way Akers makes a free, teed FG from even his 45!!! Give the MVP to the Ravens' punter!!! Um, that was running into the kicker. Roughing the kicker is when a defender plows into him while upright and with malicious intent him when trying to block the kick. It's not even debatable, really, despite what the announcers said. Although roughing the kicker is sometimes called when the kicker is perceived to be vulnerable to injury (i.e., when the kicker's foot is still in the air), there is nothing in the NFL rule book that states this. Ultimately it is up to the referee's judgement to determine the severity of contact and potential for injury. There also is no mention of "malicious intent" by the way. This from the NFL rule book... Rule 12 – Article 6 No defensive player may run into or rough a kicker who kicks from behind his line unless such contact: a) Is incidental to and after he has touched the kick in flight b) Is caused by the kicker’s own motions c) Occurs during a quick kick d) Occurs during a kick or after a run behind the line e) Occurs after the kicker recovers a loose ball on the ground or f) Is caused because a defender is blocked into the kicker Supplemental Notes – 1) Avoiding the kicker is the primary responsibility of the defensive players if they do not touch the kick 2) Any contact with the kicker by a single defensive player who has not touched the kick is running into the kicker 3) Any unnecessary roughness committed by the defensive players is roughing the kicker. Severity of contact and potential for injury are to be considered 4) When two defensive players are making a bona fide attempt to block a kick from scrimmage (punt, drop kick, and/or place kick) and one of them runs into the kicker after the kick has left the kicker’s foot at the same instant the second player blocks the kick, the foul for running into the kicker shall not be enforced, unless in the judgment of the referee, the player running into the kicker was clearly the direct cause of the kick being blocked. 5) If in the judgment of the referee any of the above action is innecessary roughness, the penalty for roughing the kickershall be enforced from the previous spot as a foul during the kick. So, I guess it is debatable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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