God's Team: Ray Lewis vs Tim Tebow - same or different?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

One is a murderer, the other does charity.

 

Guess who the media portrays in a better perspective

 

Of course, it's the sports media and one of these guys is significantly better at...ya know...sports.

[brenty]

Not really a quip. It's an honest belief that things are lost in translation, to say nothing of the thousands of years between then and now and the decisions made by man of what makes the cut and what doesn't. The language you have learned the Bible in likely isn't its original one. I was simply taking your extreme question to the the extreme. I think it is hard to argue that any text is 100% true or the word of God, and since it defies proof and requires faith, to me it is a historical document that prescribes some good things and some not so useful messages today about how to live. I'm glad I don't live in a country where I'm forced to believe otherwise.

 

Anyway, Ray Lewis has every reason to be thankful to whatever source he believes in.

With the bible. Did you know every different language bible is translatted from the original scrolls? Did you know that people still study those scrolls everyday and they do fix certain words in the bible to adjust for this time and age. So lets say the translated the bible into japanese. They go to the original scrolls and get it from there. They translate certain words that would mean something different to us.

But that is what is great about the faith. I don't need every answer. I don't need to know why men have nipples or did adam and eve have belly buttons. There are somethings in life that you just need faith in.

He would already have proven himself by saying he was God?

 

I would believe with all my heart. I've already met him and he proved it to me. And yes, if i were to be struck by a car or bolt of lightening I wouldn't have time for my complete 180. But I'm banking on the fact that I will know approximately when I am going to die. If not, i fukked up. I'll take that risk.

 

Not to mention that if God really existed, and really did come up to me, and really did know all and see all like you believe, he would already know what I feel in my heart of hearts, he would already know I am a better neighbor and friend and citizen of the planet than 99% of his followers and he would wink, and already prefer me to them. God is not nearly so petty as you think.

 

If you would believe it with all your heart, Why dishonor him, why be the way you would be then at the last minute say, ahhh just joshin God. I am back on your team! Wouldn't you say that is what half the population could be doing with their religion? wouldn't you say that the people who are dishonoring God by acting the way they are and not Christian-like. To me you answer your own question on how people call themselves christians and start wars or become complete hypocrites. Also it isn't about the actions you do. It is about your faith and what you believe. Helping an old lady across the street isn't going to get you to heaven. Yes, if you were a Christian, you should be doing great things for other people. Kinda like what tebow does. Because that shows christian behavior and in a way honors the big man upstairs.

 

People who publicly display their "faith" on a routine basis are nothing but hypocrites......

That's why people hate Tebow. If you are 'genuine', you don't need to project your beliefs like a neon marquee......

 

If you had something so awesome to tell, something so perfect, something that made your life turn around and that through God all things are possible. Wouldn't you want to tell everyone.

PLEASE watch this. Even a hardcore athiest has nothing wrong with a man being true to his word and expressing it to someone.

 

 

AND TO ALL WHO ARE AGAINST WHAT TEBOW DOES OR RAY LEWIS.

Wouldn't you want to express yourself if you believed that the only way to heaven is through God?

I think it would be selfish to hold that in and not tell anyone.

[Rob's House]

If Jesus saw me dying, would angles come flying down?

 

I hope I have a little more time. I hope it's not the end of the line.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

If you would believe it with all your heart, Why dishonor him, why be the way you would be then at the last minute say, ahhh just joshin God. I am back on your team! Wouldn't you say that is what half the population could be doing with their religion? wouldn't you say that the people who are dishonoring God by acting the way they are and not Christian-like. To me you answer your own question on how people call themselves christians and start wars or become complete hypocrites. Also it isn't about the actions you do. It is about your faith and what you believe. Helping an old lady across the street isn't going to get you to heaven. Yes, if you were a Christian, you should be doing great things for other people. Kinda like what tebow does. Because that shows christian behavior and in a way honors the big man upstairs.

You asked if I would believe in God if he showed up and proved He existed. That doesn't mean I have to approve of Christianity and its teachings.

 

And I wasn't at all talking about helping old ladies across the street when I was referring to being a good person, neighbor, etc.

 

The reason Christianity is so utterly foolish is this "faith" idea. That is the petty part I was referring to. Like God, if He existed, would really prefer a human being who had "faith" in Him but murdered his entire family, over some genuinely good soul who spent his entire life following (your alleged) God's basic tenets of goodness.

 

Like I said, He wouldn't be so petty.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Kelly the Dog

[Dibs]

......if He existed, would really prefer a human being who had "faith" in Him but murdered his entire family, over some genuinely good soul who spent his entire life following (your alleged) God's basic tenets of goodness......

 

I'll likely cop a backlash for saying this but.....

You don't have to believe that to be a Christian.

I'm a Christian and I don't believe that.

[brenty]

You asked if I would believe in God if he showed up and proved He existed. That doesn't mean I have to approve of Christianity and its teachings.

 

And I wasn't at all talking about helping old ladies across the street when I was referring to being a good person, neighbor, etc.

 

The reason Christianity is so utterly foolish is this "faith" idea. That is the petty part I was referring to. Like God, if He existed, would really prefer a human being who had "faith" in Him but murdered his entire family, over some genuinely good soul who spent his entire life following (your alleged) God's basic tenets of goodness.

 

Like I said, He wouldn't be so petty.

Yes, but if He came down to say what's up to you, slap you in the face to prove He is real. Why not follow his teachings?

Faith.. Dont you have faith in everything you do in this world. You have faith that your seatbelt will save you. You have faith that the person you are driving with won't just run off the side of the road. You put your faith into a lot of things. Christians put their faith in something that is a higher power.

You are right. God isnt petty. He doesn't root for tebow and not ray lewis. But what i am trying to say, because you said you wouldnt follow his teachings, you would poke fun and not care, but at the last minute you would be like naaah ok i am done i guess i believe now. But hey if you fully accepted him into your heart, and asked forgiviness and was truly sorry and mean every second of it, then who am I to say what isn't really in your heart. Like I said before only you and the big guy knows. But just because you are a better guy than most believers, that doesn't mean anything. And to him, all sin is equal. So a murder and me lying are pretty much the same.

[benderbender]

I'm agnostic, but Ray Lewis sanctimonious and self-serving reference to a higher power made shudder. Unlike Ray Lewis, the practicing Christians I know are humble and modest. They would thank God for their accomplishments, not brag about how God had made their opponents fail because they weren't part of his will. Tebow isn't the better football player, he is a much better spokesman for his religion.

[Kelly the Dog]

Yes, but if He came down to say what's up to you, slap you in the face to prove He is real. Why not follow his teachings?

Faith.. Dont you have faith in everything you do in this world. You have faith that your seatbelt will save you. You have faith that the person you are driving with won't just run off the side of the road. You put your faith into a lot of things. Christians put their faith in something that is a higher power.

You are right. God isnt petty. He doesn't root for tebow and not ray lewis. But what i am trying to say, because you said you wouldnt follow his teachings, you would poke fun and not care, but at the last minute you would be like naaah ok i am done i guess i believe now. But hey if you fully accepted him into your heart, and asked forgiviness and was truly sorry and mean every second of it, then who am I to say what isn't really in your heart. Like I said before only you and the big guy knows. But just because you are a better guy than most believers, that doesn't mean anything. And to him, all sin is equal. So a murder and me lying are pretty much the same.

Because half of them are stupid? Like, say, um, "murder and lying are pretty much the same." Because they ignore 80% of the rest of the citizens of the world?

 

And, I'm not surprised you didn't understand this, but I would pull the reversal at the end to prove how utterly foolish this "faith" idea was, and maybe I could teach God a little something. You know, like how it's 100x more important to be a good, honest, kind human being than to have faith in him. But, of course, if there was a God, He would already know this, and be laughing his God ass off at "believers" like yourself, and saying to me with a wink, "Can you believe they fall for this ****? Thank ME there are people like you around."

[eball]

Yes, but if He came down to say what's up to you, slap you in the face to prove He is real. Why not follow his teachings?

Faith.. Dont you have faith in everything you do in this world. You have faith that your seatbelt will save you. You have faith that the person you are driving with won't just run off the side of the road. You put your faith into a lot of things. Christians put their faith in something that is a higher power.

You are right. God isnt petty. He doesn't root for tebow and not ray lewis. But what i am trying to say, because you said you wouldnt follow his teachings, you would poke fun and not care, but at the last minute you would be like naaah ok i am done i guess i believe now. But hey if you fully accepted him into your heart, and asked forgiviness and was truly sorry and mean every second of it, then who am I to say what isn't really in your heart. Like I said before only you and the big guy knows. But just because you are a better guy than most believers, that doesn't mean anything. And to him, all sin is equal. So a murder and me lying are pretty much the same.

 

Here's the funny thing, brenty -- you don't have "faith" in your god because you've discovered something on your own; you have it because at some point somebody told you to believe that way, and you've chosen to embrace it. That's the thing about religion -- nobody has to prove nuthin' -- and if you don't have "faith" you're going to hell. It's an unbelievably effective scare tactic.

 

I'm still waiting for somebody to answer the question as to why the Christians are correct, but the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and other 80% of the world are not.

 

I have "faith" in one thing -- the human brain. It's an incredibly powerful organ; one that can imagine all sorts of fantastical theories and possibilities. It's what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. At some point in time, thousands of years ago, the human brain developed to the extent we finally began asking the question, "why?" And our wonderful, powerful brains began to formulate an "explanation" for how we came to be, because as you know, humans need to know the answers.

 

Do I "know" whether or not a god exists? Of course not. But thanks to the way in which organized religions have been set up if I ever find proof of god's existence I can be sure to use my "get out of hell free" card. In the meantime, I'll just go about my life treating people with kindness and respect, realizing I'm contributing to society without having a need to praise an invisible (and unlikely) entity.

[apuszczalowski]

Funny thing about those who say Tebow is fake, but Lewis is believable is that with Tebow I don't think I have ever seen the guy get overly preechy with anyone. Is "Tebowing" any different then Kaepernick kissing his bicep, Aaron Rodgers "Discount Double check", or Cam Newton "Supermaning" after scoring? Its the media thats always bringing up Tebow and his faith and talking about it. I don't think he has said anything more then what Warner ever did when he was playing. The difference is that everyone wants to tear Tebow down because he had huge success in college and he hasn't suceeded in the NFL. I have never seen him try to grab the cameras attention by showboating or to preach, the cameras are usually running to him to try and catch him doing something. The difference between him and Lewis's preaching is that I don't recall there ever being a time where Tebow didn't have "Faith" and was not strongly religious. Its not like he was any different in college and once he got to the NFL he started getting religious, it also doesn't look like it took any jail time for him to find God

[K-9]

... I have "faith" in one thing -- the human brain. It's an incredibly powerful organ; one that can imagine all sorts of fantastical theories and possibilities. It's what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. At some point in time, thousands of years ago, the human brain developed to the extent we finally began asking the question, "why?" And our wonderful, powerful brains began to formulate an "explanation" for how we came to be, because as you know, humans need to know the answers.

 

Our same wonderful, powerful brains also began to form answers to things that lacked explanation. And we still do it today.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[brenty]

Because half of them are stupid? Like, say, um, "murder and lying are pretty much the same." Because they ignore 80% of the rest of the citizens of the world?

 

And, I'm not surprised you didn't understand this, but I would pull the reversal at the end to prove how utterly foolish this "faith" idea was, and maybe I could teach God a little something. You know, like how it's 100x more important to be a good, honest, kind human being than to have faith in him. But, of course, if there was a God, He would already know this, and be laughing his God ass off at "believers" like yourself, and saying to me with a wink, "Can you believe they fall for this ****? Thank ME there are people like you around."

So you believe that all men are not created equal. And a wrong can be okay on some ends. Look at it this way. If you do lied to me, and then you stole from me. Aren't both wrong? What you did is still wrong no matter which way you look at it. Why can't sin be like that (which it is) Everyday you have choices. Something might have a good and a good or bad and a good. But you make that choice. if you steal or you kill.. both are wrong. What makes you the judge to say something is worse than the other? My point is, we as humans have given that rank. From the worst to ehh that wasn't so bad. Why is it, if someone believes in something that judges everyone as equal. As a wrong is a wrong, and a right is a right. That it doesn't matter how horrible of a sinner you are, That God will still give you mercy for you and gives you a chance and forgiving.

See that is your problem. You have no respect for someone who could be greater than you. You have to much pride, and to much pride is a horrible thing. If God proved himself to you, You would still basically spit in his face.

May I ask you a personal question, though i dont think you would answer me truthfully. What kind of work do you do? when was the last time you got promoted and do your bosses actually think you are a good worker? Because it seems like you just have a problem with someone in a higher power. And if God showed himself, you would give him no respect. BTW i mean no disrespect in any of this. Just trying to prove a point.

 

Here's the funny thing, brenty -- you don't have "faith" in your god because you've discovered something on your own; you have it because at some point somebody told you to believe that way, and you've chosen to embrace it. That's the thing about religion -- nobody has to prove nuthin' -- and if you don't have "faith" you're going to hell. It's an unbelievably effective scare tactic.

 

I'm still waiting for somebody to answer the question as to why the Christians are correct, but the Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, and other 80% of the world are not.

 

I have "faith" in one thing -- the human brain. It's an incredibly powerful organ; one that can imagine all sorts of fantastical theories and possibilities. It's what separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom. At some point in time, thousands of years ago, the human brain developed to the extent we finally began asking the question, "why?" And our wonderful, powerful brains began to formulate an "explanation" for how we came to be, because as you know, humans need to know the answers.

 

Do I "know" whether or not a god exists? Of course not. But thanks to the way in which organized religions have been set up if I ever find proof of god's existence I can be sure to use my "get out of hell free" card. In the meantime, I'll just go about my life treating people with kindness and respect, realizing I'm contributing to society without having a need to praise an invisible (and unlikely) entity.

 

Great response buddy. Well first of all, you really don't understand my background in my beliefs and how I became Chrstian. If i told you that when I was younger I tried to kill myself. I had a gun in my mouth and was about to pull the trigger and then my mom came home. And that I didnt know what to do so i Prayed for the first time. A real prayer. And that after that prayer, 2 weeks later all the kids that bullied me were kicked out of school for selling weed. If i told you that is how I became a believer. That I could never chalk that up to "chance"

Yes the human brain is an amazing thing. But if we never asked why, would there ever be a sir isaac newton? I would name a bunch more people who believed in something greater than themselves and discovered amazing things. Basically my question is, why cant there be something greater?

With your other question, I read on other religions. Jews are half right. They are the ones with the old testiment. They just dont believe in Jesus, whom was even mentioned in the OT and they still refused to believe. It is a looooonnnggg discussion because well there are so many different religions. But i will tell you this, that if you do study other religions, and actually look at each religion with an open heart and not a stubborn one. It will be clear. Like i said, I read up on a lot of religions. My faith has been shaken a lot, and I always thought well, why not be a mormon, then I would study it, and realize, oh wow nope that is a cult. I read a lot of books and did my own research. I even read christopher hitchens books. That guy needs some love. But i Made my own choice and my own free will to believe what I believe. I was not forced fed this. It is like C.S. Lewis. He tried to disprove religion and ended up becoming a christian.

 

I'm agnostic, but Ray Lewis sanctimonious and self-serving reference to a higher power made shudder. Unlike Ray Lewis, the practicing Christians I know are humble and modest. They would thank God for their accomplishments, not brag about how God had made their opponents fail because they weren't part of his will. Tebow isn't the better football player, he is a much better spokesman for his religion.

I didnt hear ray lewis say that God made their opponents fail. But his will, well it is said "thy will be done"

 

 

BTW I HOPE NONE OF YOU ARE TAKING ANY OF WHAT I SAY IN A NEGATIVE WAY. I ENJOY DISCUSSING RELIGION. I JUST WILL STOP ONCE IT GETS CARRIED AWAY.

[RuntheDamnBall]

You have to much pride, and to much pride is a horrible thing. If God proved himself to you, You would still basically spit in his face.

May I ask you a personal question, though i dont think you would answer me truthfully. What kind of work do you do? when was the last time you got promoted and do your bosses actually think you are a good worker? Because it seems like you just have a problem with someone in a higher power. And if God showed himself, you would give him no respect. BTW i mean no disrespect in any of this. Just trying to prove a point.

What about a Jewish person who has been raised to believe what they believe? What about a Hindu / Sikh / Muslim / Jain / Buddhist you get my point. Are they all too proud to admit that Jesus is their savior, or do they simply come from a different worldview?

 

Great response buddy. Well first of all, you really don't understand my background in my beliefs and how I became Chrstian. If i told you that when I was younger I tried to kill myself. I had a gun in my mouth and was about to pull the trigger and then my mom came home. And that I didnt know what to do so i Prayed for the first time. A real prayer. And that after that prayer, 2 weeks later all the kids that bullied me were kicked out of school for selling weed. If i told you that is how I became a believer. That I could never chalk that up to "chance"

I am glad to hear that Christianity helped you find the strength to carry on, and even as an agnostic, I have to admit one of my heroes in sports is R.A. Dickey, who exemplifies everything good about his faith without going into the boastful territory that I feel people like Tebow and especially Lewis take it to. His situation is remarkably similar to yours, and his pain perhaps worse, though I don't know yours. I am glad to see people emerge from their lowest moments to become better people, and often faith is part of it. There are other good people out there whose paths are different and I think they can be respected, too.

 

That said, there are many people, even those who believe, whom indeed chance has not been so kind to. I mean, 20 kids just got killed in school last month, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, as a parent, as a person, as a citizen, as a human, that rationalizes it. To rationalize it with some beyond-earthly reward is to cheapen the pain of others, in my opinion. My M.O. is speak for yourself, share yourself freely, but to claim one understands it all as a part of God's plan -- in football or in life and death -- is to claim to know too much for my tastes.

[Kelly the Dog]

 

That said, there are many people, even those who believe, whom indeed chance has not been so kind to. I mean, 20 kids just got killed in school last month, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, as a parent, as a person, as a citizen, as a human, that rationalizes it. To rationalize it with some beyond-earthly reward is to cheapen the pain of others, in my opinion. My M.O. is speak for yourself, share yourself freely, but to claim one understands it all as a part of God's plan -- in football or in life and death -- is to claim to know too much for my tastes.

Yeah, but you're just ignoring that lying to 20 children is the exact same thing as mowing them down. They're both wrong and both sins, and are therefore equal in the eyes of God.

[jethro_tull]

Everyone shows how they feel about their faith, family, friends, pizza toppings, wing sauce, in different ways. Who am I to judge?

 

priceless

[jethro_tull]

That said, there are many people, even those who believe, whom indeed chance has not been so kind to. I mean, 20 kids just got killed in school last month, and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, as a parent, as a person, as a citizen, as a human, that rationalizes it. To rationalize it with some beyond-earthly reward is to cheapen the pain of others, in my opinion.

 

Absolutely right on the money. And in my personal understanding and belief **** happens because God wants us to value the lives that we were given, and to live out our Christian faith by being God here on earth to others, especially those that suffer, because as a Christian it was part of the plan that I should suffer in the form of trials. It is guaranteed. And I certainly did. However the suffering strengthens faith and when you come out on the other side you help those who are in the middle of their trials, and bear witness that since you made it, so can they.

[WotAGuy]

Absolutely right on the money. And in my personal understanding and belief **** happens because God wants us to value the lives that we were given, and to live out our Christian faith by being God here on earth to others, especially those that suffer, because as a Christian it was part of the plan that I should suffer in the form of trials. It is guaranteed. And I certainly did. However the suffering strengthens faith and when you come out on the other side you help those who are in the middle of their trials, and bear witness that since you made it, so can they.

 

Amen brother! Well said. 12-step recovery works the same way - and beautiful things happen out of a lot of misery and despair.

[Sisyphean Bills]

People who publicly display their "faith" on a routine basis are nothing but hypocrites......

That's why people hate Tebow. If you are 'genuine', you don't need to project your beliefs like a neon marquee......

Wrong word. They are evangelical, not hypocrites.

[Fan in San Diego]

We need a God forum.

[RuntheDamnBall]

We need a God forum.

Keep the Christ in TwoBillsChristDrive.