mrags Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I agree 100% with you #1. You can't argue with ignorance. Before this season if people were asked if they would take 3500+ yards 25+ TDs 15+ Ints and about 25 sacks from the QB and an offense that scores about 25 points per game, I guarantee you about 90%+ of Bills fans would have signed up for that. ---^ This Fitz is probably going to finish with close to 4,000 yards and 30TDs. Stats that would make Jim Kelly an equal or not as good and yet we kill Fitz. We want more wins? Get Chan to buy into the running game more and not out Fitz in bad positions like the Tennessee game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 how about this, we leave the conversation where I started it? The point of the thread was simple: tied for 9th in TD's and 18th in salary this year. If you want to go on about QBR, that's fine, you can go there all you want man. And for TD's over turnovers, I'll leave it at this: a TD is an automatic 6 points, and an INT is not. PERIOD. There is this thing called a DEFENSE that gets paid to stop the other team from scoring from that INT/turnover. So, just to recap, you again choose to not answer the question, despite asking it 3 straight times. I did not ask you what is the immediate exact result of a TD or an INT. I asked you what mattered more in those 2 games against NE and the Jets...the 7 TD's, 4 of which were after the game was out of reach and irrelevant, or the 7 INTS and a fumble during the relevant parts of those same games. Its not hard bro, its just english. Read the question and answer the question...but as I already stated, you will never answer the question as it does not support or pointless point about Fitz being 9th in total TD's right now. And the follow up quesiton was which is a more important piece of information about Fitz's performance...the fact he is top 20 in total TD's the last 2 years, or the fact he is number 3 for most turnovers over that same span. You know that period where he was supposed to explode as the unquestioned starter and all that jazz. Here is another question...which of those 2 things do you think impacted our record more...him being in the top 20 over 2 years in total TD's or him being number 3 for most turnovers? Fitz is not our sole problem, this team needs to shore up multiple spots, including along the staff. However, that does not change the fact that Fitz is a problem on this team and there are no stats that can dispute that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Over a season ago now the league has plenty of tape on how Fitz runs Gaileys offense. Those games were also at home. See Texans, 2nd pats game, Indy, Tenn game of this year We scored enough points against Tenn & NE this year. Our D was really really bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Especially the made up ones: "Has more balls batted down in a season then most QBs do in a career" "The majority of his stats are garbage time stats when they are way behind and the defense is giving him yardage" "his TD's are for more then 25 yards, not many, and even those one are mostly all yards after the catch." Every team in the NFL passes more than it runs. Even so, Buffalo is in the top 10 in rushing plays. They are 22nd in pass attempts. Keep digging on that one. your bound to bury yourself completely soon. You mean like the QBR point you brought up but then didn't respond to after it was pointed out the other QBs who have essentially the same rating? If your are referring to the first pats game, how many points did NE score off Fitz's first int? His 2nd? His fumble? That's right, none. And after these 3 turnovers, what deficit had Fitz pt the team in? That's right, none. They were up by 2 TDs soon after. The Bills D erased that advantage in two 3 minute NE TD drives. NE scored again on their next possession--63 yards in 2 minutes. Their next possession they scored in 1:44. You get the picture.. You know what I mean when I say Gailey passes at a much higher rate than he runs far too often. EVERYONE knows Chans play calling style, so stop trying to be cute and trying to act like Gailey is not a pass happy coach. Second, you are being really foolish now with your QBR comments...you named a few QB's ranked as crappy as Fitz to somehow make it spin to sound like FItz isnt far off from being in the group of good QB's. So lets play your game...still does not change he is ranked TWENTY FIFTH...but I know how important it is to you Fitz...I mean WEO...to make that seem like its not as bad as it is. So lets look... Highest rated QBR in the league right now is Peyton Manning (talk about a good story on a side note) with 81.1 QBR. Lowest rated QBR in the league among full time starters for the season is Brandon Weeden at 26.1 QBR. Fitz has a QBR of 47.2 which is considered a poor rating on that scale. So, lets see...your pointless point is that there are a few "name" QBs near his QBR score and you want to somehow use that useless piece of information to validate Fitz's pathetic score. Fitz is 33.9 points LOWER than the top guy...yet he is only 21.1 points higher than the worst guy. So he is a lot closer to the bottom than the top. To crack the top 10 he would need a score of 66 and he is way far from that. So, you pointing out that Vick, Rivers, and Newton are not having good years, does NOT in ANY WAY make Fitz's year better. What, because Rivers has had previous pro bowl years, vick has had pro bowl years, and Newton had a great rookie year, that somehow changes how Fitz is doing this year because they are having bad years too? Fitz being clumped among other QB's under performing does not somehow prove Fitz is also a pro bowler because he is under performing in a similar way as some former pro bowlers. No offense, but that is one of the dumbest excuses I have heard in a long time. And lets not forget, Fitzs QBR is right where it ALWAYS is and has been his whole career while those other guys are having one of their worst seasons, if not their worst seasons as pros and yet still have a higher QBR than Fitz. "Hey Joe, Vick sucks this year just like Fitz so that means Fitz doesnt suck because once upon a time Vick didnt suck, even though he sucks this year"...great logic and only found on a Bills message board. AND PS: You think those 4 INTS against NE didnt impact the game? Are you serious? Just because NE didnt score on each one of them, it allowed them to take our O off the field, meaning we couldnt score and we needed MORE POINTS. Not to mention, its demoralizing for the D to keep having to go back out on the field constantly against one of the most dangerous offenses in the league...more importantly, of the 4 meaningless TD's in the two games, only one was in the NE game the other 3 were in the Jets game down 41-3 in the fourth. Edited December 6, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) ---^ This Fitz is probably going to finish with close to 4,000 yards and 30TDs. Stats that would make Jim Kelly an equal or not as good and yet we kill Fitz. We want more wins? Get Chan to buy into the running game more and not out Fitz in bad positions like the Tennessee game. Come on people...KELLY played in a DIFFERENT ERA...the constant reference to how good his stats look in this era by comparing them to a different era is just crazy. In THIS ERA...you know the one we live in every day and Fitz plays in every day, 20 to 25 TD's is nothing significant. Mark Sanchez threw 26 TD's last year...how good is he? He just got benched for a 3rd stringer so they could WIN the game. Edited December 6, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Let's see, Fitz is averaging about 31.5 attempts a game over those years ... so just imagine what is possible if he chucked the rock 45 attempts a game. Forget the run! Chuck it Chan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Come on people...KELLY played in a DIFFERENT ERA...the constant reference to how good his stats look in this era by comparing them to a different era is just crazy. In THIS ERA...you know the one we live in every day and Fitz plays in every day, 20 to 25 TD's is nothing significant. Mark Sanchez threw 26 TD's last year...how good is he? He just got benched for a 3rd stringer so they could WIN the game. So many people cannot grasp this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 New Thread Title: Fitz now has ZERO playoff appearances in three consecutive seasons. And how many underthrown or overthrown balls would have been TD's if not for Fitz?!?! Chan's offense is built to throw TDs. So many people cannot grasp this point. Come on people...KELLY played in a DIFFERENT ERA...the constant reference to how good his stats look in this era by comparing them to a different era is just crazy. In THIS ERA...you know the one we live in every day and Fitz plays in every day, 20 to 25 TD's is nothing significant. Mark Sanchez threw 26 TD's last year...how good is he? He just got benched for a 3rd stringer so they could WIN the game. Thank you!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 So many people cannot grasp this point. Thats because its the only, and I mean the ONLY stat that they have to try and desperately defend Fitz as being good when he is not. They cant use his accuracy...they cant use his efficiency...they cant use his win/loss record...they cant use playoff apperances...they cant use QBR...they cant use ball control...they cant use consistency...they cant use his clutch performances...they cant use him beating good teams...they cant use his divisional performances...they cant use his history...they cant use his arm strength...they cant use his touch on the ball...they cant use YPA...they cant use any of that, so they focus on his TD totals being respectable 20 years ago. Thats like saying Mark Sanchez is a future HOFer because if he put those numbers up in the 60's he would have been one of the most productive QB's of that generation. Unfortunately, they play in todays NFL where its not very good and means very little...although, Fitz ranking in the top 3 in having most turnovers in his 2 years as our unquestioned starter is pretty significant and pretty telling about our record with him under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 So many people cannot grasp this point. 2012 Buffalo Bills: 16th in points scored and 4th in points scored against. Do you see the trouble here? The piling on Ryan Fitzpatrick has gone waaaay overboard. The putrid defense and Gailey's inexplicable refusal to use Spiller a lot were the main cause for our poor record. Fitzpatrick is never going to be Jim Kelley, but he's not as bad as you guys have been carrying on about. He's literally a middle-of-the-pack quality level of starting NFL QB. No one is saying he's great, but having three consecutive season's of 20 plus TDs blows away many notions here that he is only a backup level QB. The numbers simply don't support that argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Compare Fitz to the parade of mediocrity that came before him...Trent, Holcomb, Losman, Van Pelt, Bledsoe. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 (edited) Nobody is arguing the fact that Fitz is inconsistent & his win loss record stinks. I stated my feelings about Fitz & why the Bills need a franchise QB in the initial post so I'm not going to rehash what I stated in the first place. I was giving Fitz & Gailey just a little bit of credit. There have been times over the past 3 years where the offense has been exciting, compared to the abysmal pop-Warner style offense Jauron used. I wouldn't mind if Fitz was our backup, just not our starting QB. Guess no one can give props to anyone around here if they're not a probowl player?! For how long did we hear people ranting & raving about Spiller being a bust, and all the Mario bashing earlier in the season. Edited December 7, 2012 by Jerry Jabber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Thats because its the only, and I mean the ONLY stat that they have to try and desperately defend Fitz as being good when he is not. They cant use his accuracy...they cant use his efficiency...they cant use his win/loss record...they cant use playoff apperances...they cant use QBR...they cant use ball control...they cant use consistency...they cant use his clutch performances...they cant use him beating good teams...they cant use his divisional performances...they cant use his history...they cant use his arm strength...they cant use his touch on the ball...they cant use YPA...they cant use any of that, so they focus on his TD totals being respectable 20 years ago. Thats like saying Mark Sanchez is a future HOFer because if he put those numbers up in the 60's he would have been one of the most productive QB's of that generation. Unfortunately, they play in todays NFL where its not very good and means very little...although, Fitz ranking in the top 3 in having most turnovers in his 2 years as our unquestioned starter is pretty significant and pretty telling about our record with him under center. Extremely well put, particularly the 1st paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Compare Fitz to the parade of mediocrity that came before him...Trent, Holcomb, Losman, Van Pelt, Bledsoe. PTR Exactly. How many times with those QB's mentioned did we see the Bills offense score 10 to 13 points a game. Also, the Bills didn't have a QB that threw for over 300 yards in a game for numerous years until Fitz broke that streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 2012 Buffalo Bills: 16th in points scored and 4th in points scored against. Do you see the trouble here? The piling on Ryan Fitzpatrick has gone waaaay overboard. The putrid defense and Gailey's inexplicable refusal to use Spiller a lot were the main cause for our poor record. Fitzpatrick is never going to be Jim Kelley, but he's not as bad as you guys have been carrying on about. He's literally a middle-of-the-pack quality level of starting NFL QB. No one is saying he's great, but having three consecutive season's of 20 plus TDs blows away many notions here that he is only a backup level QB. The numbers simply don't support that argument. ---^ For all those that say Fitz can only measured by these ridiculous stats. He's 18th in QBR Tied for 9th for TDs And 21st for yards. It all points to the fact that he's average. Again, no one is saying he is the 2nd coming of Payton Manning. But he's no Kelly Holcomb or Trent Edwards either. He could be as bad as them. But he's not. He's better than 23 other starters in the league in TD passes, and 14 in QBR, and 11 in yardage. That's first 1/3, middle 1/3, and bottom 1/3. All with having an idiot coach that sets him up to lose on multiple occasions. Either way, he is who he is and guess what. We're probably going to have his services starting for another year so you bitter SOBs better get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I'm getting more than a little tired of the constant Fitzpatrick bashing here. 12 games have been played. The Bills are 16th in points scored and 4th in points scored against. I see your point, but man those last minute Tenessee and NE picks probably cost us a playoff shot and they were pretty awful decisions and throws. Fitzy has some upside like presnap reads, toughness, quick release and scrambling, but he also has a lethal knack for throwing picks and forcing stuff that shows very poor game management and skill under pressure. Its the kiss of death for NFL QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 ---^ For all those that say Fitz can only measured by these ridiculous stats. He's 18th in QBR Tied for 9th for TDs And 21st for yards. It all points to the fact that he's average. Again, no one is saying he is the 2nd coming of Payton Manning. But he's no Kelly Holcomb or Trent Edwards either. He could be as bad as them. But he's not. He's better than 23 other starters in the league in TD passes, and 14 in QBR, and 11 in yardage. That's first 1/3, middle 1/3, and bottom 1/3. All with having an idiot coach that sets him up to lose on multiple occasions. Either way, he is who he is and guess what. We're probably going to have his services starting for another year so you bitter SOBs better get used to it. :thumbsup: Thank you! If anyone thinks the Bills will be drafting an immediate starting QB next year is out of their mind. Expect to see Fitz have some competition in training camp, but he will be the Bills starting QB come Week 1. With having two stellar RB's, Fitz should only be throwing the ball 20-25 times a game (or less). I put that squarely on Gailey's shoulders. I see your point, but man those last minute Tenessee and NE picks probably cost us a playoff shot and they were pretty awful decisions and throws. Fitzy has some upside like presnap reads, toughness, quick release and scrambling, but he also has a lethal knack for throwing picks and forcing stuff that shows very poor game management and skill under pressure. Its the kiss of death for NFL QB's. I agree 100% Like I stated before, Fitz would be an above average backup, but he is a below average starting QB as his inconsistencies and costly turnovers make him such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) I see your point, but man those last minute Tenessee and NE picks probably cost us a playoff shot and they were pretty awful decisions and throws. Fitzy has some upside like presnap reads, toughness, quick release and scrambling, but he also has a lethal knack for throwing picks and forcing stuff that shows very poor game management and skill under pressure. Its the kiss of death for NFL QB's. Even good QBs make those bad throws. I've watched the end of 2 Chargers this season and I've seen Rivers do the same thing in both games. No difference, yet we have another thread where people are claiming it would be the best possible thing to happen. Edited December 7, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) ---^ For all those that say Fitz can only measured by these ridiculous stats. He's 18th in QBR Tied for 9th for TDs And 21st for yards. It all points to the fact that he's average. Again, no one is saying he is the 2nd coming of Payton Manning. But he's no Kelly Holcomb or Trent Edwards either. He could be as bad as them. But he's not. He's better than 23 other starters in the league in TD passes, and 14 in QBR, and 11 in yardage. That's first 1/3, middle 1/3, and bottom 1/3. All with having an idiot coach that sets him up to lose on multiple occasions. Either way, he is who he is and guess what. We're probably going to have his services starting for another year so you bitter SOBs better get used to it. Where do you get your stats...Fitz is ranked 25th in QBR...not 18th. Not even going to bother and look the others up given you are so off on that one. Edited December 7, 2012 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) NFL.com Edit: oops, ESPN.com. Thought I was clicking in NFL link when I googled. Either way, it's close to middle of the pack. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/quarterbackRating Like I keep saying. All this arguing is pointless and absolutely stupid because everyone that we want fired or benched now will still be here next year. So you haters better get used to it. Nix Chan Wanny Fitz Stevie Jones Dareus Williams Williams Barnett Shephard They will all be here. Good luck with hoping there's changes. There won't be. Edited December 7, 2012 by mrags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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