marauderswr80 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Too much cushion not being aggresive! Look how Ray Rice got that first down.....way too much cushion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 it wasent? No. It was zone all the way and Barnett didn't execute his assignment. It was hard to tell exactly why until seeing the all-22 view. jonramz nailed it. It was straight quarters coverage underneath and Barnett should have dropped to the numbers at the twenty yard line and waited. He needed to concede anything underneath that point which is why he shouldn't have worried about the RB. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 There are conflicting theories about how a team should cover their opponents best receiver. Some match up their best corner against the other team's best WR. Other teams put their best CB on the other teams 2nd best receiver, and double their best. It seemed like Wayne was single covered during the game, so when the pass rush didn't get to Luck, Wayne was able to get open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 No matter how it happened...It should never happen... You can't let the Colts best WR beat you on a 3rd and 17...You just can't...It's not like The Bills or any other Team does not understand that Reggie Wayne is the #1 threat...Especially on 3rd and long...If another receiver beats you in that situation because you're paying more attention to Wayne, then so be it...But Wayne can't beat you there...And he did... And that's yet another example of why this Defense can't turn the corner...Whether it's poor calls, poor execution, or both...It seems to always be something with this bunch... And yes Barnett is done...He looks like he's running in quicksand on some plays...He's history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Too much cushion not being aggresive! Look how Ray Rice got that first down.....way too much cushion! actually quite the opposite - if they sat back there, instead of going after the RB, they would have had wayne covered. the zones werent too deep, its that it was abandoned. There are conflicting theories about how a team should cover their opponents best receiver. Some match up their best corner against the other team's best WR. Other teams put their best CB on the other teams 2nd best receiver, and double their best. It seemed like Wayne was single covered during the game, so when the pass rush didn't get to Luck, Wayne was able to get open. in this case, it was a simple zone coverage that wasnt executed. it wasnt that he beat his man, its that no one was there to pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Direhard Fan Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What ever happened to all the great LB's we drafted in 2010-2011 under Buddy?? I think Ralph should run our draft picks this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 What ever happened to all the great LB's we drafted in 2010-2011 under Buddy?? I think Ralph should run our draft picks this year. which mid to late round selection are you referring to, in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Puzzling indeed. From watching this year it appears on 3rd and long Coach Wannstedt likes to have the LBs etc play back at the line to get and try to get the QB to throw short. Why would Barnett come in and cover the short guy? That's the guy we want Luck to throw to. Leave him open and tackle him before he get to the marker. Probably would have worked if he did what he was supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 Puzzling indeed. From watching this year it appears on 3rd and long Coach Wannstedt likes to have the LBs etc play back at the line to get and try to get the QB to throw short. Why would Barnett come in and cover the short guy? That's the guy we want Luck to throw to. Leave him open and tackle him before he get to the marker. Probably would have worked if he did what he was supposed to. I agree. His mistake sticks out like a sore thumb with all the other underneath defenders set up and playing their quarters at around the 20. Barnett's absence is glaring and that alone created the space for Wayne and Luck. He made it too easy for them. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) I agree. His mistake sticks out like a sore thumb with all the other underneath defenders set up and playing their quarters at around the 20. Barnett's absence is glaring and that alone created the space for Wayne and Luck. He made it too easy for them. GO BILLS!!! my only guess is he lost wayne so he thought his zone would stay empty, and was worried about giving up fg range to the rb - it certainly appears freelance on his part. Edited November 27, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted November 27, 2012 Author Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) after going through some old playbooks, it looks like the Bills were in Cover 3 and made an adjustment to account for the trips. In this particular adjustment Barnett has the RB if he goes out into the pattern away from the trips side. Which is why he said the breakdown is wrong. I will contend, however that the RB's 2 yard pattern is not a concern on 3rd and 17 and he should have stayed back. The middle defender, in this case Bryan Scott is the defender responsible for the fast 6 route that Wayne ran. All that is a long way of saying, technically Barnett is not at fault, but still made a bad football play in my opinion as the RB was no threat at all Edited November 27, 2012 by jonramz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 (edited) after going through some old playbooks, it looks like the Bills were in Cover 3 and made an adjustment to account for the trips. In this particular adjustment Barnett has the RB if he goes out into the pattern away from the trips side. Which is why he said the breakdown is wrong. I will contend, however that the RB's 2 yard pattern is not a concern on 3rd and 17 and he should have stayed back. The middle defender, in this case Bryan Scott is the defender responsible for the fast 6 route that Wayne ran. All that is a long way of saying, technically Barnett is not at fault, but still made a bad football play in my opinion as the RB was no threat at all Ah - so Barnett made a silly break, and Scott - our coverage lb- blew it worse. I wouldnt be a bit shocked if Barnett blew it out of habit still, and not assignment on this snap The worst part being we probably ran this D about 10+ times Sunday. Basic cover 3, with a 4 man rush? It should've been a bread and butter play Edited November 28, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 after going through some old playbooks, it looks like the Bills were in Cover 3 and made an adjustment to account for the trips. In this particular adjustment Barnett has the RB if he goes out into the pattern away from the trips side. Which is why he said the breakdown is wrong. I will contend, however that the RB's 2 yard pattern is not a concern on 3rd and 17 and he should have stayed back. The middle defender, in this case Bryan Scott is the defender responsible for the fast 6 route that Wayne ran. All that is a long way of saying, technically Barnett is not at fault, but still made a bad football play in my opinion as the RB was no threat at all Thank you NFL for opening up the All-22 Pandora's Box. There's something to be said about not visiting the sausage factory. Thanks for the detailed breakdown and it does open some eyes. Interesting that Barnett would publicly respond, which is a no win situation. In a blown play like that, someone obviously made a mistake. By coming out, he's publicly saying that the safeties screwed up. My question upon seeing the first screen shots is why would Barnett stay in his designated quarter for the whole play when he has no assigned player. The interesting part was that the two defenders are planted in the middle without caring about #87 running behind them, and only two guys coming out underneath. In that coverage, you had 4 guys covering 2 guys peeling off the line. To the uninitiated, it would seem that one of the two middle backers would have responsibility to trail Wayne across the field (because logic would dictate that Luck wouldn't have enough time to complete the ball to Wayne running the entire width of the field). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalover4life Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 this is a scheme issue if Barnett was supposed to cover Reggie. LBs do not cover wide receivers especially not the other teams best one. He would be responsible for the flat though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 Thank you NFL for opening up the All-22 Pandora's Box. There's something to be said about not visiting the sausage factory. Thanks for the detailed breakdown and it does open some eyes. Interesting that Barnett would publicly respond, which is a no win situation. In a blown play like that, someone obviously made a mistake. By coming out, he's publicly saying that the safeties screwed up. My question upon seeing the first screen shots is why would Barnett stay in his designated quarter for the whole play when he has no assigned player. The interesting part was that the two defenders are planted in the middle without caring about #87 running behind them, and only two guys coming out underneath. In that coverage, you had 4 guys covering 2 guys peeling off the line. To the uninitiated, it would seem that one of the two middle backers would have responsibility to trail Wayne across the field (because logic would dictate that Luck wouldn't have enough time to complete the ball to Wayne running the entire width of the field). Yeah I feel bad that I missed the adjustment and said Barnett blew it... he didn't. I still don't think it was the optimal play though as he really doesn't need to jump the check down so hard on 3rd and 17. In this particular adjustment, the CB opposite trips plays man, the CB to trips has the deep 1/3 to his side the FS has the middle of the field, the nickel corner takes anything underneath towards the sideline, the middle backer (Scott) is supposed to get depth and take the inside breaking route, finally the WLB is supposes to get the 1st crosser or the RB on a flare. Sorry this was a bit technical but that's the adjustment they made. -Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) gentlemen One of the more interesting and enjoyable dialaogues i have read here. thank you for that indeed. Breaking down plays and players is much more fulfilling that the "fire everyone somebody !" shitstorms that show up in times of duress. Nick has been trending down this year. He looked much faster side to side last year. Play recognition was good for the most part. He has been trending down. Teams are starting to pick on him. Hell one game they went at him 3 times. in the same set of downs! I have to say coaching on this. Because it's becoming habit. 3rd and long. we must have bad #s for that statistic. edit i mean to say that coaching has allowed linebackers to continue fail under 3rd and longs, not in fact this play. Just an accumulation of troubles with our pass cover LBs as a whole right now Edited November 28, 2012 by 3rdand12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Yeah I feel bad that I missed the adjustment and said Barnett blew it... he didn't. I still don't think it was the optimal play though as he really doesn't need to jump the check down so hard on 3rd and 17. In this particular adjustment, the CB opposite trips plays man, the CB to trips has the deep 1/3 to his side the FS has the middle of the field, the nickel corner takes anything underneath towards the sideline, the middle backer (Scott) is supposed to get depth and take the inside breaking route, finally the WLB is supposes to get the 1st crosser or the RB on a flare. Sorry this was a bit technical but that's the adjustment they made. -Jon When you say trips, you mean 11 personnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Why was there even a LB out on the field on 3rd and 17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 (edited) Why was there even a LB out on the field on 3rd and 17? Sure tackling underneath? In a short zone instead of man coverage it's not absurd Edited November 28, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonramz Posted November 28, 2012 Author Share Posted November 28, 2012 When you say trips, you mean 11 personnel? by trips I meant 3x1 formation.... sorry for the confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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