DefenseWins Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ok, that one takes the cake. In addition to the punter debacle, Jacksonville also selected Blaine Gabbert who looks like a bust too... I would hope though that the Bills draft at least 1 QB if not 2 this offseason... And say what you will about Flutie - He made the games entertaining, Not like what we've seen the last 12 years... No. People are arguing in this and other threads that he should have known. That it was obvious how good Russell Wilson was and Nix should have seen that he had all this talent and recognized it from the start. And that, to me, is nonsense. Nix was just like all of the other GMs in the league, including John Schneider, who along with Pete Carroll, didn't at all know that height was not going to affect Wilson. If Schneider and Carroll knew, they wouldn't have signed Flynn, and they would have drafted Russell Wilson in the first round where virtually no one had him ranked. Nix screwed up because he didn't take a flyer on the guy, and instead took a flyer on a smallish WR instead, not because he should have known. My problem with NIX is that he never took a flyer on ANY of these QB's... You have to be in it to win it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 No. People are arguing in this and other threads that he should have known. That it was obvious how good Russell Wilson was and Nix should have seen that he had all this talent and recognized it from the start. And that, to me, is nonsense. Nix was just like all of the other GMs in the league, including John Schneider, who along with Pete Carroll, didn't at all know that height was not going to affect Wilson. If Schneider and Carroll knew, they wouldn't have signed Flynn, and they would have drafted Russell Wilson in the first round where virtually no one had him ranked. Nix screwed up because he didn't take a flyer on the guy, and instead took a flyer on a smallish WR instead, not because he should have known. 100% agree and feel like though its merely a nuance to the argument, it's an important one. The "it was obvious he was going to play like this" crowd lack more credibility than anyone in this debate. It wasn't. It was at a point where it was a reasonable risk to take - not an obvious franchise guy by any means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 100% agree and feel like though its merely a nuance to the argument, it's an important one. The "it was obvious he was going to play like this" crowd lack more credibility than anyone in this debate. It wasn't. It was at a point where it was a reasonable risk to take - not an obvious franchise guy by any means. Wait a minute. Who is saying that? I think we're all arguing the same thing - just getting there from a different side. I haven't seen anyone arguing that Nix should have taken Wilson first. All pro-Wilson arguments from rational posters are saying that based on his college history and that success and probability of continuing it at the pro level should have landed him a pick earlier than Seattle's, especially for QB starved teams. And KtD, I'm with San Jose on this one. The corollary to your question should be, name any QB in college who were shorter than 6'-0" who had the numbers (stats & intelligence) that Wilson brought, before we consider their snubs by the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Wait a minute. Who is saying that? I think we're all arguing the same thing - just getting there from a different side. I haven't seen anyone arguing that Nix should have taken Wilson first. All pro-Wilson arguments from rational posters are saying that based on his college history and that success and probability of continuing it at the pro level should have landed him a pick earlier than Seattle's, especially for QB starved teams. And KtD, I'm with San Jose on this one. The corollary to your question should be, name any QB in college who were shorter than 6'-0" who had the numbers (stats & intelligence) that Wilson brought, before we consider their snubs by the NFL. There's a lot of "he was can't miss" sentiment on this board. TONS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 There's a lot of "he was can't miss" sentiment on this board. TONS. I think those need to be put into context of "he was can't miss to be drafted in the third round instead of Graham" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 As GG said, I'm not recalling any wave of opinion that the Bills should have drafted Wilson in the first round. Nix has been criticized roundly and constantly for passing up on Dalton, Kaepernick, and Wilson. More to the point Nix has been criticized for spending draft picks outside the first round to Aaron Williams and TJ Graham immediately before the 3 aforementioned quarterbacks were drafted. That's the only significant criticism I've been aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) No I didn't. But I addressed that point twice in each of my posts. 1) Players with the stature of Russell Wilson are usually diverted away from quarterback before they get to the pros. 2) There is a difference between being given a legit chance and simply being a camp body or a roster filler. There's a difference between a quarterback who is the starter by default and one who has the true backing of his organization (like Fitz has enjoyed the last two seasons). Take a guy like Kellen Moore. I know nothing about the guy except that he was a great college quarterback and he's on the short side. Do we know that he's ever been given a fair chance to compete for a starting role in the NFL? All we know is that Detroit likes him running their scout team. It's immaterial that he's on a roster if he's not been given a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job. Doug Flutie spent 5 seasons in the NFL before going to Canada and arguably becoming the greatest player in CFL history. In those 5 seasons at the start of his career, he started 15 games and went 10-5 in those games. And yet he was never given the real opportunity to be the unquestioned starter, as Fitz was. Why wasn't Flutie given a true untainted opportunity despite being 10-5 as an NFL starter? I think we all know the reason. Flutie was terrible in those five seasons. I remember watching him play (and wanting him to play) and I remember the Bear fans hating him. He threw more INTs than TDs. He wasn't very good in the USFL either. And again, I am a Flutie fan. Kellen Moore cannot play in the NFL because he has a weak arm, as do most of the small guys, and the ones that don't usually have to wind up like Flutie did. Wilson has a missile launcher. Edited January 15, 2013 by Kelly the Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I am so sick of this talk that just because he is short than means other short quarterbacks can do it. Well Kelly, I'm more sick of atypical players being routinely passed over in pro sports because they don't fit the prototype. JMO. I don't think your last post refutes Flutie not being given a fair chance at the beginning of his career. I doubt he got much support to succeed. As for Bears fans, fans are just as guilty as coaches for not wanting 5'10" quarterbacks. Our points were made in the first two posts above: I think a lot of these prototypes are self-fulfilling prophecies. Pro scouts would rather draft and give a legitimate chance to a guy like John Skelton or Levi Brown than they would someone like Kellen Moore. I understand that but I think they're guilty of being a bit too dogmatic (no pun intended). For the record, I wanted the Bills to draft Wilson in the 3rd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Graham sucked. Wilson took his team to the playoffs. NY 33 has zero credibility. True. Fluke game against GB due to scab refs. Yeah, they may still have got in... BUT without another fluke win against Chicago... They are looking in from the outside... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 I don't think your last post refutes Flutie not being given a fair chance at the beginning of his career. I doubt he got much support to succeed. As for Bears fans, fans are just as guilty as coaches for not wanting 5'10" quarterbacks. Our points were made in the first two posts above: I think a lot of these prototypes are self-fulfilling prophecies. Pro scouts would rather draft and give a legitimate chance to a guy like John Skelton or Levi Brown than they would someone like Kellen Moore. I understand that but I think they're guilty of being a bit too dogmatic (no pun intended). For the record, I wanted the Bills to draft Wilson in the 3rd round. Ok, let me put it this way. Name one 5' 11" or less QB who had a cannon for an arm, that could make all of the NFL throws as they say. The scrap heap is littered with guys like Kellen Moore whose arm was a bigger problem than his height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Russell Wilson sets record for postseason passing yards by a rookie: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/01/14/russell-wilson-sets-record-for-postseason-passing-yards-by-a-rookie/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halftime hero Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Are you serious? The kid played great vs. Atlanta! Boomer Esiason, who knows a thing or two about quarterback play loves this kid. Loves his leadership ability. Russell Wilson thrives in pressure situations. The Bills were fools to pass on this guy for TJ Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Ok, let me put it this way. Name one 5' 11" or less QB who had a cannon for an arm, that could make all of the NFL throws as they say. The scrap heap is littered with guys like Kellen Moore whose arm was a bigger problem than his height. You've already asked this. And I've already answered. So why are you asking again? In the last 3 years at the combine, Wilson was the only QB under 5'11". Only one other quarterback was under 6' tall. Tyrod Taylor. So there's only a few possible explanations. One is that if you're not over 5'11" it's impossible to have a strong arm. The other is that if you're not over 6' tall, it's rare that you're given the opportunity to play quarterback in college or in the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You've already asked this. And I've already answered. So why are you asking again? In the last 3 years at the combine, Wilson was the only QB under 5'11". Only one other quarterback was under 6' tall. Tyrod Taylor. So there's only a few possible explanations. One is that if you're not over 5'11" it's impossible to have a strong arm. The other is that if you're not over 6' tall, it's rare that you're given the opportunity to play quarterback in college or in the pros. It's probably closer to the first. If a high school or college player has enough talent, drive, smarts, leadership, cannon for an arm, accuracy on short, medium and long throws, fearlessness, toughness, pocket presence, ability to throw on the run, ability to read defenses, and poise to be a dominant college QB and franchise QB in the NFL, he would have found a college and college coach to play him and he would have been a star. They just are not out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 You've already asked this. And I've already answered. So why are you asking again? In the last 3 years at the combine, Wilson was the only QB under 5'11". Only one other quarterback was under 6' tall. Tyrod Taylor. So there's only a few possible explanations. One is that if you're not over 5'11" it's impossible to have a strong arm. The other is that if you're not over 6' tall, it's rare that you're given the opportunity to play quarterback in college or in the pros. No question Wilson was a once-in-a-decade-type situation...But it's not like most NFL Teams did not know about him, including The Bills of course... Wilson started, and starred for 4 years...What he did in a one-year situation at Wisconsin was impressive to say the least...His intangibles were literally off-the-charts...He has huge hands for a kid his size...He's a very good athlete with a live arm...He's was a VERY special case study for NFL Scouts...But that's what they are paid to get right...He was also a pretty hyped prospect....Wilson was all over NFL Network leading up to the Draft...The Bills had him in for a visit...I'm sure they studied the heck out of him... I definitely understand how a team would be real cautious about using a a 1st Round pick on a 5-11 QB...But once it gets past the first two Rounds...I don't understand the hesitation...I read once that about 12.5% of 3rd Round Picks start for 3 seasons or more...About 6.5% start for 5 seasons or more...So what was the risk at that point for Wilson? Plus he's a QB!!! If NFL teams with QB needs (even QB depth needs), again including The Bills, were simply passing on Wilson because a kid his size is basically written off...Or worse yet too hard to project...Well...I just don't know what to say about it...It makes no sense to me at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 No question Wilson was a once-in-a-decade-type situation...But it's not like most NFL Teams did not know about him, including The Bills of course... Wilson started, and starred for 4 years...What he did in a one-year situation at Wisconsin was impressive to say the least...His intangibles were literally off-the-charts...He has huge hands for a kid his size...He's a very good athlete with a live arm...He's was a VERY special case study for NFL Scouts...But that's what they are paid to get right...He was also a pretty hyped prospect....Wilson was all over NFL Network leading up to the Draft...The Bills had him in for a visit...I'm sure they studied the heck out of him... I definitely understand how a team would be real cautious about using a a 1st Round pick on a 5-11 QB...But once it gets past the first two Rounds...I don't understand the hesitation...I read once that about 12.5% of 3rd Round Picks start for 3 seasons or more...About 6.5% start for 5 seasons or more...So what was the risk at that point for Wilson? Plus he's a QB!!! If NFL teams with QB needs (even QB depth needs), again including The Bills, were simply passing on Wilson because a kid his size is basically written off...Or worse yet too hard to project...Well...I just don't know what to say about it...It makes no sense to me at all... What the Bills did made perfect sense. They just blew it because their evaluations on at least three players were dead wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Flutie was terrible in those five seasons. I remember watching him play (and wanting him to play) and I remember the Bear fans hating him. He threw more INTs than TDs. He wasn't very good in the USFL either. And again, I am a Flutie fan. Kellen Moore cannot play in the NFL because he has a weak arm, as do most of the small guys, and the ones that don't usually have to wind up like Flutie did. Wilson has a missile launcher. And the missile it fires is a laser-guided smartbomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 He had a good rookie season. Nobody is "elite" after one year. There is a lot of film on him now. D Coordinators have all off season to figure him out. He's not going to sneak up on anyone next year. Is a sophmore slump coming up? Check back in 2 or 3 years and if he's still doing it, then yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 He had an AWESOME rookie year, but whatever. -I agree you can't just look at that. You CAN, however look at how thoroughly he eclipsed Fitzchumstick when he had the chance. I lost count of how many touchdowns he ran for that day. You can also look at how this kid just got better and better as the season wore on. Sophmore slump? No way. Too much poise, focus, and maturity. You must be thinking about that Luck, Kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Seattle Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson: 'There is a lot to look forward to': http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap2000000126539/Russell-Wilson-There-is-a-lot-to-look-forward-to Pretty revealing NFL.com post game video. This kid is special for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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