benderbender Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 So we instead trade for T Jackson and don't give him any reps. Thigpen was outplayed in preseason yet he's still here. At least Gailey will have familiar faces to help him move his box of stationary out of one bills drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Fair enough, I was hoping for an udgrade to Fitz and I am not looking forward to playing a top team with Fitzpatrick as QB *shrug* Even with all the 3-and-outs and the miserable lack of scoring v. SF, our offense is squarely in the middle of the league at #15 for PPG, 17 for YPG, 22 for scrimmage plays, #9 for 3rd down %, #22 for TOP. The D, on the other hand, is contending valiently for last place in the league in almost every statistical category. We have a lot of reactive people posting on that board and a bunch of them dis on "statistics guys" Nevertheless, statistics usually tell one something, it's interpreting correctly - understanding which stats are most important, and not cherry-picking, that's the challenge. What the stats say to me is that our offense is not nearly the problem it's being painted as. The big stinkin' pile is being laid by our D, which not only can't stop a nosebleed it apparently brings that nosebleed anticoagulants and a case of tissues. Pink, scented tissues. Fitz is still what he is - mid-pack in the league, right now towards the lower end deservedly because of all the INTs (rank 18th). It does not matter if he is leading the league in TD throws-that is not an important statistic correlated to winning. Neither is passing yards. It does matter that he is close to leading the league in INTs, because that has a strong negative correlation to winning. All QB overthrow apparently wide-open receivers. That is why a top-ten completion percentage is 2/3 completions. All offenses go 3-and-out at times. It's on the D to get the stop and give the ball back to them. What is significant to me is the plays that are being called - by Fitz or by Chan, can't tell you but either way the buck stops with Chan. We have completely forsaken the power-running that served us well against KC and at times against the Browns, in favor of low-percentage deep throws in short yardage situations. Why are we giving the ball to CJ in short yardage situations on the goal line? Why are we keeping CJ in to pass-protect? Why are we passing on 3rd and 2? Why are we taking a low percentage deep shot (resulting in an INT) in a game that's not out of hand, when we could try to control the ball and give our D a rest? We have a hampered OL with injuries - how many 2 TE sets are we running and how much is Corey Mac seeing the field. A few relatively minor changes - a handful of playcalls a game - would seemingly have potential to make our offense much more productive, and Fitz much more constructive. Even GB brought in a power-running scheme against Seattle when their normal O wasn't working, but we seemingly can not adjust. And if we did adjust offensively? All we can hope is that we could hang onto the ball and keep it away from our D, because they seem totally broken and even less able to adjust than our offense. PS we have already faced 2 top teams with Fitz as our QB, and it was the D that was the ugly, ugly monster both times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garion Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Great post hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 *shrug* Even with all the 3-and-outs and the miserable lack of scoring v. SF, our offense is squarely in the middle of the league at #15 for PPG, 17 for YPG, 22 for scrimmage plays, #9 for 3rd down %, #22 for TOP. The D, on the other hand, is contending valiently for last place in the league in almost every statistical category. <snip> PS we have already faced 2 top teams with Fitz as our QB, and it was the D that was the ugly, ugly monster both times Good post, Hope. One of the offense's big problems is that the defense can't get off the field or stop anything. In the second halves of the last two games, they couldn't even slow the opponent down to somewhere in the vicinity of the speed limit even. When the defense is giving up scoring drives like free samples on the corner, any and every offense is behind the 8-ball. Not only are their possessions limited in number, but they have to score a touchdown every time they get the ball. Unless one is playing the Bills defense of 2012, that's just not going to happen. That said, Fitzpicks does look to have regressed. He's late on his throws, had nothing on some of those passes, and his accuracy looks as bad as it ever has. Add that he's very streaky and is now making bad decisions and it is not a happy situation. One could tell from Stevie Johnson's body language how frustrated things are in the passing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 *shrug* Even with all the 3-and-outs and the miserable lack of scoring v. SF, our offense is squarely in the middle of the league at #15 for PPG, 17 for YPG, 22 for scrimmage plays, #9 for 3rd down %, #22 for TOP. The D, on the other hand, is contending valiently for last place in the league in almost every statistical category. We have a lot of reactive people posting on that board and a bunch of them dis on "statistics guys" Nevertheless, statistics usually tell one something, it's interpreting correctly - understanding which stats are most important, and not cherry-picking, that's the challenge. What the stats say to me is that our offense is not nearly the problem it's being painted as. The big stinkin' pile is being laid by our D, which not only can't stop a nosebleed it apparently brings that nosebleed anticoagulants and a case of tissues. Pink, scented tissues. Fitz is still what he is - mid-pack in the league, right now towards the lower end deservedly because of all the INTs (rank 18th). It does not matter if he is leading the league in TD throws-that is not an important statistic correlated to winning. Neither is passing yards. It does matter that he is close to leading the league in INTs, because that has a strong negative correlation to winning. All QB overthrow apparently wide-open receivers. That is why a top-ten completion percentage is 2/3 completions. All offenses go 3-and-out at times. It's on the D to get the stop and give the ball back to them. What is significant to me is the plays that are being called - by Fitz or by Chan, can't tell you but either way the buck stops with Chan. We have completely forsaken the power-running that served us well against KC and at times against the Browns, in favor of low-percentage deep throws in short yardage situations. Why are we giving the ball to CJ in short yardage situations on the goal line? Why are we keeping CJ in to pass-protect? Why are we passing on 3rd and 2? Why are we taking a low percentage deep shot (resulting in an INT) in a game that's not out of hand, when we could try to control the ball and give our D a rest? We have a hampered OL with injuries - how many 2 TE sets are we running and how much is Corey Mac seeing the field. A few relatively minor changes - a handful of playcalls a game - would seemingly have potential to make our offense much more productive, and Fitz much more constructive. Even GB brought in a power-running scheme against Seattle when their normal O wasn't working, but we seemingly can not adjust. And if we did adjust offensively? All we can hope is that we could hang onto the ball and keep it away from our D, because they seem totally broken and even less able to adjust than our offense. PS we have already faced 2 top teams with Fitz as our QB, and it was the D that was the ugly, ugly monster both times I agree Fitz is not being used properly but he has limited skills. Eventually every team shuts this game down. I believe the Defense suffers from confidence directly connects to the lack of offense and turnovers Like your post, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Excuse me for asking this but I didnt see any of the Bills preseason games. Was Vince Young so absolutely horrible that he could not even make the backup? We dont have any go to guy when Fitz sh$ts the bed. And Fitz has being pretty horrendous in our losses. I mean really what plan B does Chan have when Fitz throws up a stinker like hes been doing. Why didnt they give Young a chance to be backup. How bad was he? Easy answer: YES I was hoping for more, but it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) 31 other teams seem to agree that he was. I hear this a lot, but the truth is the majority of the football teams out there unlike the Buffalo Bills are fairly well set at the QB position and a high profile QB like Young simply does not fit into their plans. Do the Patriots need a high profile QB? Bronco's? 49ers? Steelers? Cowboys? Giants? Texans? I mean I could keep going , but you get the point. The only reason VY is not in Buffalo right now is Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy. Gaileys sense of loyalty for his current signal caller's (Fitz and Thigpen) have become an obstacle for this organization and Buddy Nix needs to remedy the problem. Edited October 9, 2012 by Fig Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I hear this a lot, but the truth is the majority of the football teams out there unlike the Buffalo Bills are fairly well set at the QB position and a high profile QB like Young simply does not fit into their plans. Do the Patriots need a high profile QB? Bronco's? 49ers? Steelers? Cowboys? Giants? Texans? I mean I could keep going , but you get the point. The only reason VY is not in Buffalo right now is Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy. Gaileys sense of loyalty for his current signal caller's (Fitz and Thigpen) have become an obstacle for this organization and Buddy Nix needs to remedy the problem. I fully realize that it was a negative premise. That's why I used "seems". VY may well indeed get another shot if some team has a rash of injuries at the position, for example. I'm not saying that will never happen. That said, I think you are grossly overestimating Young's market value by saying he is "high profile". The Bills are not the only team in the NFL with QB issues. Nor are they the only team that might need a capable backup QB. BTW, the Eagles let him go because they felt Trent Edwards (yikes!) was more suited to the backup role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamSandwhich Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 In a word "YES" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 The odds were stacked against VY in Buffalo. He is not a backup QB. He either starts, finds another team or is out of football. It was made clear to him that he was competing with Thigpen for a backup job and not competing with Fitz for the starter's role. He was also being asked to adapt to an offence specifically designed by Chan for Fitz and which did not cater to his strengths. He also came with some personal baggage that everyone, especially him, could have done without. It was maybe asking too much of the Bills to do what would have been necessary to get the most out of VY. They would have had to make it an open QB competition and tailor the offence to his skills to some extent. Having a legitimate shot to resurrect his career might have helped turn things around for him. But then what would have happened to Fitz's blessed confidence. Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson...I'm getting just a little fed up with Chan and his impossible to digest play book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 (edited) The odds were stacked against VY in Buffalo. He is not a backup QB. He either starts, finds another team or is out of football. It was made clear to him that he was competing with Thigpen for a backup job and not competing with Fitz for the starter's role. He was also being asked to adapt to an offence specifically designed by Chan for Fitz and which did not cater to his strengths. He also came with some personal baggage that everyone, especially him, could have done without. It was maybe asking too much of the Bills to do what would have been necessary to get the most out of VY. They would have had to make it an open QB competition and tailor the offence to his skills to some extent. Having a legitimate shot to resurrect his career might have helped turn things around for him. But then what would have happened to Fitz's blessed confidence. Vince Young, Tarvaris Jackson...I'm getting just a little fed up with Chan and his impossible to digest play book. Well said. Its unfortunate for vy the team that gave him a shot was being coached by a guy guaranteed to undermine him. Chans System, while not good for winning games, has been proven to elevate QBs without starter skills to the top spot. He's a desperate man now on a quixotic crusade to find that one mythical qb that validate his system; its become more important to him than anything else. I.e. he's a bum and shouldnt be a HC Edited October 9, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Well said. Its unfortunate for vy the team that gave him a shot was being coached by a guy guaranteed to undermine him. Chans System, while not good for winning games, has been proven to elevate QBs without starter skills to the top spot. He's a desperate man now on a quixotic crusade to find that one mythical qb that validate his system; its become more important to him than anything else. I.e. he's a bum and shouldnt be a HC Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geno Smith's Arm Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Still bickering about Vince Done? I'm blocking anyone that posts in favor of Vince Young, and I suggest all others do the same. The quality of posts will go up immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Still bickering about Vince Done? I'm blocking anyone that posts in favor of Vince Young, and I suggest all others do the same. The quality of posts will go up immediately. Agreed. So stupid. Fitz who has 12 tds to 8 ints is garbage but Young who threw 4 tds to 9 ints last year is good? Wow. Anyone who wanted Young this preseason should realize there's a very good reason he's not getting a sniff around the league. He's not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I hear this a lot, but the truth is the majority of the football teams out there unlike the Buffalo Bills are fairly well set at the QB position and a high profile QB like Young simply does not fit into their plans. Do the Patriots need a high profile QB? Bronco's? 49ers? Steelers? Cowboys? Giants? Texans? I mean I could keep going , but you get the point. The only reason VY is not in Buffalo right now is Chan Gailey loves him some Fitzy. Gaileys sense of loyalty for his current signal caller's (Fitz and Thigpen) have become an obstacle for this organization and Buddy Nix needs to remedy the problem. If VY is as good as people here are making him out to be, then teams (even the ones you mentioned) would be looking into him and bringing him in for a work out. Has anyone even spoke to him about a workout since he was cut by the Bills? Its not like his asking price is that high right now for a one year deal As for the offence/defence debate, How many drives on offence went more then 3 and out or were more then a few plays long since about midway through the 3rd quarter of the Pats game to the end of the 49ers game? The offence did nothing in the 5+ chances they had between the times that the Pats scored 6 straight TDs against the defence, and they managed to put up a whole 3 points during the 49ers games. Think about it this way, if the offence was able to play like it did in the first half of the Pats game, they atleast score 1-2 more TDs in the 3rd and 4th quarter of that game, it would have given the Pats less time on offence to score 6 TDs in a row and the game is much closer......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Agreed. So stupid. Fitz who has 12 tds to 8 ints is garbage but Young who threw 4 tds to 9 ints last year is good? Wow. Anyone who wanted Young this preseason should realize there's a very good reason he's not getting a sniff around the league. He's not good. stop...just stop... Still bickering about Vince Done? I'm blocking anyone that posts in favor of Vince Young, and I suggest all others do the same. The quality of posts will go up immediately. whatever man, well block me then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Agreed. So stupid. Fitz who has 12 tds to 8 ints is garbage but Young who threw 4 tds to 9 ints last year is good? Wow. Anyone who wanted Young this preseason should realize there's a very good reason he's not getting a sniff around the league. He's not good. Yea, and if the Bills waived Fitz there would be no interest either..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Good post, Hope. That said, Fitzpicks does look to have regressed. He's late on his throws, had nothing on some of those passes, and his accuracy looks as bad as it ever has. Add that he's very streaky and is now making bad decisions and it is not a happy situation. One could tell from Stevie Johnson's body language how frustrated things are in the passing game. Thanks. Agree totally, Fitz appears to have been "fixed" by Lee only in the veterinary sense, not in the sense of increased productivity. Loved the part about giving up scoring drives like free samples on a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badasss Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/The-rise-and-fall-of-Vince-Young-3905523.php Interesting article. I hope he can make a comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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