Punch Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 No doubt you can't wait for the "real refs" to get back so you can resume weekly complaints about how they are screwing the Bills.... FWIW, no they didn't. There is no picket line. I was in the dark about some of the issues in this lockout--as obviuously many others are also. This is what the NFL offered: Annual compensation increases of 5-11% Increase the number of crews from 17-20 in order to have a larger pool of refs intraining for when these older guys retire. A small core of full time refs in the total pool (over 90% of the current real refs don't want to go full time--many would take a pay cut if they left their other jobs to be full time refs, I would aume). Conversion of their benefits to a 401k. The refs response is that they want to be better compensated. Thanks--- there's a lot of nuance to this situation but the longer it drags on the more it has devolved into white noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 There will be the same amount of bitching and moaning about the officiating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 From what I saw the replacements were getting better each week. I wouldn't expect much difference after a few more weeks. Which doesnt bode well for the regs negotiating position. Those begging for the regs to come back should really think back to all the messed up calls they made last year. Couple come to mind was plax mugging of mckelvin on a critical jets TD when it was clearly offensive PI, and Florence getting flagged for unnecessary roughness PF for even thinking about hitting Brady after he was picked off. It was so absurd Florence could be seen laughing at the ref on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Coughlin also questioned King early in the fourth quarter when the officials picked up a flag seemingly thrown for the Patriots having 12 men in the huddle before a 54-yard field goal by Tynes. King said New England called time out before the play. The Giants eventually decided to punt." Looks like they NFL is sure coaching them up to the usual standards. The next penalty they have to get under their belts is if someone farts in 10 yds of Brady it is Roughing the Passer... Edited August 30, 2012 by reed83 4th Rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Because that's what they're called. Mostly by lazy, greedy dirtbags. No doubt you can't wait for the "real refs" to get back so you can resume weekly complaints about how they are screwing the Bills.... The whining about these refs is the most laughably disingenuous pile of crap I've seen in a long time. Especially from the crowd here, who whine and B word about the refs every single game. I've yet to see anyone point out a worse, game-changing call from the new refs than the one the great Ed Hochuli made in the Denver-SD game a few years ago. Or the coin flip game. Or the just give it to em game. Or Super Bowl XL. Or a hundred other ref disasters I've witnessed over the years. From what I saw the replacements were getting better each week. I wouldn't expect much any difference after a few more weeks. Ditto. Remember when MLB fired that group of umps and everyone cried about how the game would be ruined by new umps? Yeah, that lasted about two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 50/50 in favor of the Bills? You new here? Fair question. I will retract my statement and pray for the real offcials to get back on the field! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I guess, my ultimate view, is that the replacement refs are good for the game in the long run if they do nothing, but knock the complacency from the regular refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Mostly by lazy, greedy dirtbags. "Scab" can certainly be considered a pejorative, but it's a term that has entered the public consciousness as normative shorthand for "replacement laborer" during labor disputes without it necessarily being intended as derogatory. Referring to the replacement refs as scabs is logical even if it is technically incorrect. The whining about these refs is the most laughably disingenuous pile of crap I've seen in a long time. Especially from the crowd here, who whine and B word about the refs every single game. Can you unequivically prove that those concerned with the replacement refs are the same group of posters that have historically complained about the regular officials? Furthermore, even if the regular refs "suck" (I don't personally believe this) then a group of refs several degrees below them would theoretically suck several degrees more. I've yet to see anyone point out a worse, game-changing call from the new refs than the one the great Ed Hochuli made in the Denver-SD game a few years ago. Or the coin flip game. Or the just give it to em game. Or Super Bowl XL. Or a hundred other ref disasters I've witnessed over the years. You're comparing the first 3 weeks of preseason to the entire history of pro football up until this summer? Kind of a near miniscule small sample size and taken from games with the lowest possible stakes. So far, the only officiating gaffes have been embarrassing flubs perhaps because they haven't had enough time to fully learn the rulebook or adjust to the bigger stage. Considering the circumstances, they've done a pretty admirable job, all things considered, but it's only a matter of time before a major call alters the course of a regular season game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Lets hope that the refs make a lot of bad calls against the Putrids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sad to say, but this is modern day economics. No matter what your profession, if you can't/won't accept whatever the fair/unfair terms of your employment may be, there is no shortage of people who try to undercut your position. At least that's the view the "employers" never fail to remind you of! The employers generally hold ALL the cards! They know that some employees will give in and accept the deal. Those that won't are "easily" replaced by generally undertrained, inexperienced new hires. This leads to all kinds of problems within the surviving employee group. The employers don't care, because they're "saving money." Only IF the customers notice, and either complain, or take their business elsewhere, will they sometimes re-think their position. This happens everywhere, and the NFL is no exception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sad to say, but this is modern day economics. No matter what your profession, if you can't/won't accept whatever the fair/unfair terms of your employment may be, there is no shortage of people who try to undercut your position. At least that's the view the "employers" never fail to remind you of! The employers generally hold ALL the cards! They know that some employees will give in and accept the deal. Those that won't are "easily" replaced by generally undertrained, inexperienced new hires. This leads to all kinds of problems within the surviving employee group. The employers don't care, because they're "saving money." Only IF the customers notice, and either complain, or take their business elsewhere, will they sometimes re-think their position. This happens everywhere, and the NFL is no exception. The NFL isn't saving money--they are offering annual compensation increases. It's just not as much as the refs want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 "Scab" can certainly be considered a pejorative, but it's a term that has entered the public consciousness as normative shorthand for "replacement laborer" during labor disputes without it necessarily being intended as derogatory. Referring to the replacement refs as scabs is logical even if it is technically incorrect. Sorry, but that's b.s. The term is specifically meant to be demeaning and insulting. It has absolutely not entered the public consciousness as normative shorthand, unless your definition of public consciousness is limited to guys on the loading dock. The fact that people may be familiar with the existence of a slur doesn't make the slur normative shorthand. Can you unequivically prove that those concerned with the replacement refs are the same group of posters that have historically complained about the regular officials? Furthermore, even if the regular refs "suck" (I don't personally believe this) then a group of refs several degrees below them would theoretically suck several degrees more. Hang on; let me run a full study of posters who complain about refs. And by the way, can you unequivocally prove that the new refs are several degrees worse than the old ones? You're comparing the first 3 weeks of preseason to the entire history of pro football up until this summer? Kind of a near miniscule small sample size and taken from games with the lowest possible stakes. So far, the only officiating gaffes have been embarrassing flubs perhaps because they haven't had enough time to fully learn the rulebook or adjust to the bigger stage. Considering the circumstances, they've done a pretty admirable job, all things considered, but it's only a matter of time before a major call alters the course of a regular season game. No, I'm not comparing 3 weeks of preseason to the entire history of pro football. I'm merely pointing out that despite the magnification of every tiny misstep by the new refs and people's rush to yell about how bad they are, horrible calls will not suddenly be a new thing. And yes it is only a matter of time before one of them makes a major call that alters the course of a game, just like has happened dozens times before with the old refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggieScooby Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Remember that KD in CT is a staunch conservative who thinks that unions are bad, hence he will put up with these DII refs until they screw his Bills. Yet he will continue supporting his union Buffalo Bills players so long as they don't talk about their brotherhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Sorry, but that's b.s. The term is specifically meant to be demeaning and insulting. It has absolutely not entered the public consciousness as normative shorthand, unless your definition of public consciousness is limited to guys on the loading dock. The fact that people may be familiar with the existence of a slur doesn't make the slur normative shorthand. I'd wager the OP didn't intend for it to be vitriolic in any way. I'd also bet the term doesn't register or resonate with many posters. It isn't exactly a racial epithet, and this isn't the 1930s, 1970s or even the 1990s--- but I'm not interested in arguing labor unrest on a football message board. Hang on; let me run a full study of posters who complain about refs. And by the way, can you unequivocally prove that the new refs are several degrees worse than the old ones? That's my point, you have no idea. Poster A complains about the regular refs, then Poster B comes in and complains about the new refs--- don't throw the whole board under the bus to fit your agenda. It's perfectly reasonable to believe the replacement refs will be inferior to the regular refs. To suggest it's not is ingenuous at best--- this seems to be your MO, however. No, I'm not comparing 3 weeks of preseason to the entire history of pro football. I'm merely pointing out that despite the magnification of every tiny misstep by the new refs and people's rush to yell about how bad they are, horrible calls will not suddenly be a new thing. And yes it is only a matter of time before one of them makes a major call that alters the course of a game, just like has happened dozens times before with the old refs. Yes, you are. I'll remind you of your direct quote: "I've yet to see anyone point out a worse, game-changing call from the new refs than the one the great Ed Hochuli made in the Denver-SD game a few years ago. Or the coin flip game. Or the just give it to em game. Or Super Bowl XL. Or a hundred other ref disasters I've witnessed over the years." There have been several calls and lengthy on-field conferences thus far that are embarrassing to say the least--- I think it's to be expected, though, and at some point during an actual meaningful game this season we're more likely to see ineptitude than not. I made it clear I think they're doing the best they can under the extremely difficult circumstances, but if Keystone Kops style officiating is what you're interested in then the 2012 NFL is the league for you. Remember that KD in CT is a staunch conservative who thinks that unions are bad, hence he will put up with these DII refs until they screw his Bills. Yet he will continue supporting his union Buffalo Bills players so long as they don't talk about their brotherhood. Suddenly, it all makes sense. He certainly comes across very angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'm curious if the League has done background checks on these folks like they apparently do on the real refs, which go well beyond the simple "ever been arrested?". These folks have a once in a lifetime chance (before they head back to DII) to make a huge score by throwing a game. The League really needs to be careful here. Personally, I'm shocked it's gotten as far as it has, as I thought the League was too smart to let it get this far. And to the posters saying the replacement refs' gaffes have been exaggerated I ask what exactly you've been watching this month? They've been atrocious as has been widely reported and as is easily observable by watching almost any preseason game, including ours. One thing that hasn't been remarked on is that I at least have noticed that these guys don't seem to like to call holding--can't count the number of times I've seen O-linemen hook an arm around a rusher's head or shoulder to take them to the ground. Can't believe it, but it does make me wish for the old inept crews back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I'd wager the OP didn't intend for it to be vitriolic in any way. I'd also bet the term doesn't register or resonate with many posters. It isn't exactly a racial epithet, and this isn't the 1930s, 1970s or even the 1990s--- but I'm not interested in arguing labor unrest on a football message board. So first it's "normative shorthand" and now it "doesn't register or resonate with many posters"? Check. That's my point, you have no idea. Poster A complains about the regular refs, then Poster B comes in and complains about the new refs--- don't throw the whole board under the bus to fit your agenda. Obviously you've never been here on a game day after a questionable call goes against the Bills. Yes, you are. I'll remind you of your direct quote: "I've yet to see anyone point out a worse, game-changing call from the new refs than the one the great Ed Hochuli made in the Denver-SD game a few years ago. Or the coin flip game. Or the just give it to em game. Or Super Bowl XL. Or a hundred other ref disasters I've witnessed over the years." There have been several calls and lengthy on-field conferences thus far that are embarrassing to say the least--- I think it's to be expected, though, and at some point during an actual meaningful game this season we're more likely to see ineptitude than not. I made it clear I think they're doing the best they can under the extremely difficult circumstances, but if Keystone Kops style officiating is what you're interested in then the 2012 NFL is the league for you. So pointing out four examples of bad calls = the "entire history of pro football"? Check again. What was that about being disingenous and fitting your agenda? Suddenly, it all makes sense. He certainly comes across very angry. Pointing out silly overrecations of people to the new refs (and now your faulty logic) isn't exactly an anger inducing exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyBacker Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 U don't regularly start a topic on this board so you must be a scab topic starter right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 So first it's "normative shorthand" and now it "doesn't register or resonate with many posters"? Check. You're trying really hard to be this obtuse--- it "doesn't register or resonate with many posters" as an insult. Obviously you've never been here on a game day after a questionable call goes against the Bills. This is obfuscation. Your response doesn't relate at all to my comment. So pointing out four examples of bad calls = the "entire history of pro football"? Check again. What was that about being disingenous and fitting your agenda? Did each of your examples take place within an average 3 week period? Clearly, the first 3 weeks of preseason isn't enough of a sample size to be a fitting comparable to the broad expanse of NFL seasons from which you are able to draw examples. You actually cited an example from a Super Bowl in comparison to this summer's preseason games. Pointing out silly overrecations of people to the new refs (and now your faulty logic) isn't exactly an anger inducing exercise. It's truly remarkable that you suggest others having "silly overreactions" and using "faulty logic"--- these are accurate descriptions of your recent flurry of posts. You can check all you want--- I call checkmate. Try and relax--- I feel bad for the new refs and hope there are no issues. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Lets hope the Replacements remember this in weeks 1 and 2 (hopefully we'll have the regular cr@ppy refs back) Pats* laughing at bad ref call Edited August 31, 2012 by BillsFan-4-Ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Somewhere gamblers and Bob Kraft are smiling at all this.... Dunno if you were implying along the same lines or not but, what are the odds that these refs are more likely to be "on the take" than the full time refs? Someone is going to say 50/50 right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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