You herd it hear last Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 A long time ago, it used to be that teams built themselves around a great running back (ala Jim Brown, Juice, et al). Now, all you hear is 'Franchise Quarterback'. For me a few questions arise from this, and I'd like your input: 1. At what point in history do YOU think this dynamic changed? (between a valuable running back to a passer) 2. Who do YOU think was the first true franchise QB? And thirdly, does anyone know: the first QB to be given this title by the media, and who gave it to him/coined the phrase? Here's the wiki link to 'franchise player' and mentions a few NFLers, but not so QB specific...so I wasn't THAT lazy. http://en.wikipedia....ranchise_player NOTE: I'd like to send out a hearty thanks to all the posters and especially our esteemed host. Well, it's back to the special ed grind for me pretty soon, so ending my 15+ hours a day on TBD. It's been a lot of fun this offseason and hope I didn't peeve anybody too bad. I gotta real good feeling about this season and I think even the nay-sayers or neganancies do too, but they're just so unwilling to climb out on that branch, and I can sympathize with that. GO BILLS! With that, I forgive all and purge my block list...'cause it's all about forgiveness p.s. I'm working on a Bills song for you guys and the great City of Buffalo...hey, you never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I'd say the "franchise QB" era started with Joe Montana given his Superbowl Dynasty and the Dwight Clark / Jerry Rice matchups. Jim Plunkett was not a true franchise QB or Joe Theisman...they both had stud running backs with Marcus Allen and Joe Riggins. Montana had Roger Craig, but the Niners were known as a passing team. The switch from RB's as franchise players to QB's probably started in the 80's with Montana and then really took off with the draft class of Jim Kelly, Elway and Marino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I'd say the "franchise QB" era started with Joe Montana given his Superbowl Dynasty and the Dwight Clark / Jerry Rice matchups. Jim Plunkett was not a true franchise QB or Joe Theisman...they both had stud running backs with Marcus Allen and Joe Riggins. Montana had Roger Craig, but the Niners were known as a passing team. The switch from RB's as franchise players to QB's probably started in the 80's with Montana and then really took off with the draft class of Jim Kelly, Elway and Marino. I'd agree with you. Yes there have always been great QBs (Unitas, Jurgenson, Baugh, Luckman) but those guys passed so much less and relied so much more on the ground attack than modern day QBs. Early Super Bowls were won by outstanding game manager type QBs like Bart Starr, Len Dawson, and Bob Griese. More and more the onus for offensive excellence rests on the QB. Edited August 24, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Yep I was going to say Montana too. The west coast offense revolutionized the game. That was the major shift imo from running to passing as Walsh used the short passes as his running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Montana is tough to argue against.. I would also throw out names like Marino, Favre and Elway. Edited August 24, 2012 by Billsrhody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) The term "franchise QB" is the most abused and meaningless phrase ever. It's tossed around like confetti on anyone you want to fluff up. Matt Leinert and Jimmy Clausen were called franchise. Mark Sanchez and Sam Bradford are inexplicably still referred to that way. There are only two or three REAL franchise QBs in the NFL right now, and no rookie out of college is one, sorry. PTR Edited August 24, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You can only become a franchise QB when you win a super bowl. Until then he is a just a starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Unitus was the first franchise qb. His performance from the late 50s for more than a decade was remarkable. In some of those years his stats would have put him in the pro bowl in the receiver coddled era. Ha had a plus Td to interception ratio when his receivers were being clocked with the ball in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 You can only become a franchise QB when you win a super bowl. Until then he is a just a starter I disagree with this. I think the term franchise quarteback really means a qb you can build your team around which is why it is thrown around so loosely. I think many people confuse it with being an elite qb (analysts specifically). I also think a sb win is not a necessity to be considered either elite or a franchise qb. Winning a sb takes a lot more than a qb (however having an elite one certainly does help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Unitus was the first franchise qb. His performance from the late 50s for more than a decade was remarkable. In some of those years his stats would have put him in the pro bowl in the receiver coddled era. Ha had a plus Td to interception ratio when his receivers were being clocked with the ball in the air. I would pick Sammy Baugh. You can make a case for Benny Friedman earlier. Graham was also before Unitas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Unitus was the first franchise qb. His performance from the late 50s for more than a decade was remarkable. In some of those years his stats would have put him in the pro bowl in the receiver coddled era. Ha had a plus Td to interception ratio when his receivers were being clocked with the ball in the air. I might say the same--- in fact, I'd suggest Unitas might be the first modern pro football QB. After Unitas it can be argued that Joe Namath was a franchise QB because of the money invested in him by the Jets. The game was very different in the 40s and 50s but something must be said about the likes of Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham and Bobby Layne. At least in the case of Graham, who I think is probably pretty close to being a franchise QB taking into consideration his incredible record for the first 10 or so years of the Browns franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I would pick Sammy Baugh. You can make a case for Benny Friedman earlier. Graham was also before Unitas. Bart Starr? Y.A. Tittle? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Bart Starr? Y.A. Tittle? PTR Friedman and Baugh were before them. Tittle started around the same time as Graham ( Tittle started two years later, IIRC). I might say the same--- in fact, I'd suggest Unitas might be the first modern pro football QB. After Unitas it can be argued that Joe Namath was a franchise QB because of the money invested in him by the Jets. The game was very different in the 40s and 50s but something must be said about the likes of Sammy Baugh, Otto Graham and Bobby Layne. At least in the case of Graham, who I think is probably pretty close to being a franchise QB taking into consideration his incredible record for the first 10 or so years of the Browns franchise. Graham: 10 years, 10 championship game appearances, 7 championships. If that is not franchise, I am not sure what is. Especially, when you look at the times he was not in the lineup and they failed miserable. I would toss Layne in as a franchise QB. I was only arguing who would be "first." To me it is Baugh, but it could be argued that it was Friedman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I think the dynamic changed starting in the late 70's and evolved over time. Started in the late 70's with Dan Fouts/Air Coryell to Joe Montana/West Coast Offense to the 83 Draft (Kelly/Marino/Elway) to the Run & Shoot and No-Huddle offenses to Brett Favre/ Peyton Manning/Tom Brady to now where the ultimate success or failure in the NFL is having a "franchise QB". The first real franchise QB was Joe Namath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I think the dynamic changed starting in the late 70's and evolved over time. Started in the late 70's with Dan Fouts/Air Coryell to Joe Montana/West Coast Offense to the 83 Draft (Kelly/Marino/Elway) to the Run & Shoot and No-Huddle offenses to Brett Favre/ Peyton Manning/Tom Brady to now where the ultimate success or failure in the NFL is having a "franchise QB". The first real franchise QB was Joe Namath. I think that it was '78 when they changed the rules allowing for offenses to be more potent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The first real franchise QB was Joe Namath. If by franchise you mean celebrity, then yeah. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffBill Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I'd say the "franchise QB" era started with Joe Montana given his Superbowl Dynasty and the Dwight Clark / Jerry Rice matchups. Jim Plunkett was not a true franchise QB or Joe Theisman...they both had stud running backs with Marcus Allen and Joe Riggins. Montana had Roger Craig, but the Niners were known as a passing team. The switch from RB's as franchise players to QB's probably started in the 80's with Montana and then really took off with the draft class of Jim Kelly, Elway and Marino. I would have to agree that the Era started with Montana, but I might want to say the first Franchise QB was Joe Namath. He threw for over 4,000 yards in an era that 3,000 was pretty rare. He was the face of that franchise, who else comes to mind when you think of the biggest upset in NFL History when they beat the Colts? Nobody but Broadway Joe that's who. Edited August 24, 2012 by BuffBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Friedman and Baugh were before them. Tittle started around the same time as Graham ( Tittle started two years later, IIRC). Graham: 10 years, 10 championship game appearances, 7 championships. If that is not franchise, I am not sure what is. Especially, when you look at the times he was not in the lineup and they failed miserable. I would toss Layne in as a franchise QB. I was only arguing who would be "first." To me it is Baugh, but it could be argued that it was Friedman. Also with Graham, Paul Brown very much structured his offensive system around Graham's talents which screams franchise QB. Looking at Baugh's bio, he was a 1st rd draft pick (6th overall in 1937) and starred for 16 seasons, setting several NFL passing records and won a Championship. Certainly, that's a franchise QB background. I think the question is really about media perception as much as anything else, though. When did the almost "cult of personality" identity of the franchise QB become a regular talking point? I think the reality of great "franchise" QBs is separate from the media creation that has led to (as PTR referenced) guys like Sanchez and Bradford being drafted high and labeled as such without earning it. Edited August 24, 2012 by Punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I think the question is really about media perception as much as anything else, though. When did the almost "cult of personality" identity of the franchise QB become a regular talking point? I think the reality of great "franchise" QBs is separate from the media creation that has led to (as PTR referenced) guys like Sanchez and Bradford being drafted high and labeled as such without earning it. If that is the criteria, Layne might be the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 The term "franchise QB" is the most abused and meaningless phrase ever. It's tossed around like confetti on anyone you want to fluff up. Matt Leinert and Jimmy Clausen were called franchise. Mark Sanchez and Sam Bradford are inexplicably still referred to that way. There are only two or three REAL franchise QBs in the NFL right now, and no rookie out of college is one, sorry. PTR Hello. Russell Wilson. C'mon Promo, get with the program. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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