Who Do You Think Will Win The Presidential Election?

[Rob's House]

Rob... that is the game of poltics, isn't it? Obama has hardly gotten off scott-free by the right for his past. If this election is about the economy, and taxes, as the right keeps insisting it is, why wouldn't Romney's tax returns be relevant?

Because Romney's tax records don't necessarily have anything to do with what his tax policies would be. You know as soon as they had the info the Dems would suggest it's a natural conclusion that Romney would tailor tax policy to favor himself (I.e. The rich), which is an unfair assumption.

[They]

How did They end up in this thread?

 

Perhaps it is because They know who will win.

 

They will not however reveal this knowledge.

 

This again leaves They wondering why They showed up in this thread.

[Buftex]

And you will quote a stupid John Stewart stating that Romney has only been running for office for two years. Did you see the size of Romney's 2010 tax return? Three inches thick. His taxes are no doubt very complicated. This whole "issue" is just the Obama campaign throwing up a canard. If Romney doesn't release a bunch of years they'll say he has something to hide. If he were to release a bunch of years, they'll make ridiculous charges over items in the tax returns that are complicated and hard to explain to the general populace. This is all about keeping Romney engaged in anything but the economy. You know, that economy that Obama owns.

 

So he shouldn't release his tax returns (like everyone else), becuase they would be too hard for everyone to understand?

[Doc]

Presidential candidates have been releasing their tax records for decades. Romney is insisting that everything they would reveal is above board. There seems to be some question about that. All I am saying... if Obama was refusing to divulge his tax records, the right would be up in arms as well.

 

If Romney wants to make an issue of Obamas college transcripts, why not? Voters can decide for themselves how relevant that is, or how desperate that will look. Myabe they should look at Obama's transcripts. I know we have seen his tax returns. Equating the tax return issue, and college transcripts is one of those false equivalancy things...or "retarded" as you seem to prefer.

 

What I find humourous about these threads (you call them discourse, you give them too much credit) is that you will all jump all over Obama for "disgracing the office" (or whatever you are calling it), but then revert to the same tactics that you accuse the left of. You are really not interested in discourse, so much as confirmation that you are right.

LOL! So demanding Barry release his transcripts, which EVERY candidate has done, is "being desperate," but demanding Romney release his tax returns, is legit? Pray tell, what do you think his tax returns will show?

And the people who make that issue on the right would also be labeled idiots by me

 

 

 

Because it has zero to do with being president of the United States and it's !@#$ing retarded.

 

 

 

I will? Or maybe you were referring to B-man, Doc, Dante and the rest of the right wing drones?

 

So what you're effectively saying is you are here to counter the right wing drones by being a left wing drone?

I'm not a right-wing drone, you moron.

[meazza]

I'm not a right-wing drone, you moron.

 

Right and I'm Kenyan.

[B-Man]

So he shouldn't release his tax returns (like everyone else), becuase they would be too hard for everyone to understand?

 

 

 

Good Lord !

 

He has released them, but those who wish to distract, are asking for more.

 

They (laughingly) chose twelve years because thats what his father did in 1968.

 

 

.

[Doc]

Right and I'm Kenyan.

Oh yeah? What part?

[meazza]

Oh yeah? What part?

 

There:

 

Kenya

[3rdnlng]

So he shouldn't release his tax returns (like everyone else), becuase they would be too hard for everyone to understand?

 

Who says everyone else has released their tax returns? What I'm saying is Romney's opposition is just trying to muddy up the real issues by demanding the release of more records. They are desperately trying to control the conversation. They want to talk about everything but the economy.

[They]

They are desperately trying to control the conversation. They want to talk about everything but the economy.

They snicker at your statement that They are desperate. They will control the conversation or anything else They want to control.

 

They will talk about anything They want including the economy.

 

They did not come here looking for a fight but if They get in one They will not lose.

[truth on hold]

They snicker at your statement that They are desperate. They will control the conversation or anything else They want to control.

 

They will talk about anything They want including the economy.

 

They did not come here looking for a fight but if They get in one They will not lose.

Are you talking about aliens from another planet ?

 

I disagree on the economy, outside of the debates "they" can't go there. But in general you're right. At the moment they have everyone focused on MRs returns or Bain experience, the right is even more distracted than the left. This is bad for MR, he can't get a posiive message out when he's always on the defensive. These early scrapes are important, we pretty much know what each candste will say.In the debates. I don't expect any decisive turning points. MR is getting closer to only hoping for the economy to get a lot weaker in the next 3 months to pull off a win Something outside of his sphere of influence. Not a good place

Edited July 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[dayman]

Who says everyone else has released their tax returns? What I'm saying is Romney's opposition is just trying to muddy up the real issues by demanding the release of more records. They are desperately trying to control the conversation. They want to talk about everything but the economy.

 

 

In the context of the political discussion it all just comes back to Romney inexplicably not being ready. Honestly if I were a big time GOP supporter or wanted Romney to win or Obama to be beaten at all costs I would be legitimately pissed at him. This is a guy who has basically been running for President since...2007? At least as far back as 2007? And his taxes are ready and released at least since he started running? Why wasn't anything blatantly toxic (assuming there is something) cleaned up AT LEAST when you KNEW YOU WERE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. He should have had the last 6 or so years ready and put out long ago and taken any hit for that in the primaries and earlier than this if there was going to be one.

 

Does that mean he should have not made money for the last 6 years? Of course not. But clean up the off short accounts for that time period, not b/c they're evil but b/c you are running for president. Make sure that whatever your finances are you are paying some income tax hopefully at least 15% each of those years (not saying he wasn't we don't know). Just generally have it ready to go and out in advance.

 

Then if people wanted more info about your past dating back to when you were at Bain, etc...you can say "look I gave 6 years. Have some Presidential candidates given more? Yes. But I gave 6. And that's enough." He would be a lot better off than where he is now if that was the case. And since he was running...that entire time...there is no excuse from a political strategy for him not to do this. He would still catch heat for info on his finances in his Bain years and info taht shows what/where he was during those '90s year and particularly the 98-'02 years but at least he would have a decent showing of recent taxes.

 

It just seem sort of stunning (worst word would be arrogant) that he let become such an issue that has circulated for this long and is only getting worse. His surrogates on this issue sound pathetic also now they have nothing to say that even remotely satisfies the questions...a lot of Republican pundits/figures are saying basically "for Gods sake put more out and put them out quickly to move on" too.

 

This is a self inflicted wound. Say what you want about team Obama but this isn't really political brilliance. It's well executed for sure, but it's sort of right out of the book of basic politics.

Edited July 18, 2012 by TheNewBills

[truth on hold]

Funny thing the Romney campaign is well monied and knew they had the primary locked up for a long time. There's no excuse for a lack of preparedness.

[3rdnlng]

In the context of the political discussion it all just comes back to Romney inexplicably not being ready. Honestly if I were a big time GOP supporter or wanted Romney to win or Obama to be beaten at all costs I would be legitimately pissed at him. This is a guy who has basically been running for President since...2007? At least as far back as 2007? And his taxes are ready and released at least since he started running? Why wasn't anything blatantly toxic (assuming there is something) cleaned up AT LEAST when you KNEW YOU WERE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT. He should have had the last 6 or so years ready and put out long ago and taken any hit for that in the primaries and earlier than this if there was going to be one.

 

Does that mean he should have not made money for the last 6 years? Of course not. But clean up the off short accounts for that time period, not b/c they're evil but b/c you are running for president. Make sure that whatever your finances are you are paying some income tax hopefully at least 15% each of those years (not saying he wasn't we don't know). Just generally have it ready to go and out in advance.

 

Then if people wanted more info about your past dating back to when you were at Bain, etc...you can say "look I gave 6 years. Have some Presidential candidates given more? Yes. But I gave 6. And that's enough." He would be a lot better off than where he is now if that was the case. And since he was running...that entire time...there is no excuse from a political strategy for him not to do this. He would still catch heat for info on his finances in his Bain years and info taht shows what/where he was during those '90s year and particularly the 98-'02 years but at least he would have a decent showing of recent taxes.

 

It just seem sort of stunning (worst word would be arrogant) that he let become such an issue that has circulated for this long and is only getting worse. His surrogates on this issue sound pathetic also now they have nothing to say that even remotely satisfies the questions...a lot of Republican pundits/figures are saying basically "for Gods sake put more out and put them out quickly to move on" too.

 

This is a self inflicted wound. Say what you want about team Obama but this isn't really political brilliance. It's well executed for sure, but it's sort of right out of the book of basic politics.

 

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The Chicago gang will distort the returns if he releases them and claim he's hiding something if he doesn't. If I was Romney I'd refuse to release any more records other than what he has agreed to do. I'd just pound the fact that they are trying to change the conversation from the economy. Every time they try to even bring it up I'd mention the fact that they are trying to change the conversation. Then I'd talk some more about the economy. When done, I'd start a new conversation about the economy, and again and again.

[John Adams]

I said it earlier this year and still believe that Obama will win. Drawing Mitt into this battle over Bain and tax records makes Mitt look like a fool. Romney should answer this stuff once and stay on message. Instead, every day, it's another round of Bain explanations. To me, getting drawn into this is one of his bigger political missteps. The deeper Romney gets drawn into the mud, and he's deeper in it now "You're a liar, no you are" gives an advantage to Obama.

 

Summary of polls:

 

http://www.realclear...1171.html#polls

Edited July 18, 2012 by John Adams

[dayman]

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The Chicago gang will distort the returns if he releases them and claim he's hiding something if he doesn't. If I was Romney I'd refuse to release any more records other than what he has agreed to do. I'd just pound the fact that they are trying to change the conversation from the economy. Every time they try to even bring it up I'd mention the fact that they are trying to change the conversation. Then I'd talk some more about the economy. When done, I'd start a new conversation about the economy, and again and again.

 

 

Well I don't know about if that is necessarily true right now...he may be damned either way and may have calculated he's less damned just not releasing them. My overall point is just that it didn't have to be that way if he planned in advance and he's been running since '07 so I really don't see how he just walked himself into such a predictable hole.

 

You can only talk about the economy so much either way, it may be the main issue but it will never be the only issue...and generally speaking if you get sort of labeled a shifty "vulture capitalist" who is "hiding his taxes" and is "rich and 1% boogeyman" then your speaking on the economy can be marginalized by the whole Obama "middle class built to last/not doing what we did under Bush which is what Romney wants to do/we don't need more of this in charge" type campaign pitch. So it's not as if it's a completely unrelated distraction in the sense that if it's effective it will actually HELP Obama on the economy argument. Polls are the most retarded thing in the world to me but on the Sunday shows I heard some polls that said recently since "taxgate" (lol I'm waiting on someone to call it that in the media) Obama is making grounds in some swing states when asked "who is better for the economy" (and really making grounds overall in Ohio particularly). That just shows the effect this can have not only on Romney but on everything Romney is trying to say/sell. If Romney falls behind in that metric he'll be crushed.

 

Once again I don't put too much stock in polls but taking them for all their worth which is just an indicator of the wind blowing and the effectiveness of current strategy...it suggests Romney is getting hurt by this.

 

In Florida, Obama leads Romney 45 percent to 41 percent, and in Ohio his lead is 47 percent to 38 percent, according to the most recent survey by Quinnipiac University. The two men were essentially tied in both states in a similar survey released at the beginning of May.

 

In Pennsylvania, Obama holds a six point lead over Romney, compared to a nine point lead he held in May.

 

But more Florida voters think Romney will do better on the economy than Obama, though they are tied when it comes to which candidate voters think will improve their own bottom line. Ohio voters give Obama the edge on the economy and think his re-election would improve their economic future compared to a Romney presidency. Voters in Pennsylvania are essentially split between Obama and Romney when it comes to their ability to lift the national economy and their own financial future.

 

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ballot-2012/2012/06/27/poll-obama-extends-lead-in-key-states

 

 

 

Romney would do a better job on the economy, 46 percent of Florida voters say, while 44 percent say Obama would do a better job. Obama would be better for their personal economic future, 46 percent of voters say, compared to 45 percent for Romney.

 

Voters say 47 - 42 percent, however, that Obama would do a better job on the economy than Romney and say 47 - 42 percent that the president would be better for their personal economic future.

 

Pennsylvania voters split 44 - 44 percent on who would do a better job on the economy and 44 - 43 percent on who would be better for them personally.

 

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/presidential-swing-states-(fl-oh-and-pa)/release-detail?ReleaseID=1767

[meazza]

I said it earlier this year and still believe that Obama will win. Drawing Mitt into this battle over Bain and tax records makes Mitt look like a fool. Romney should answer this stuff once and stay on message. Instead, every day, it's another round of Bain explanations. To me, getting drawn into this is one of his bigger political missteps. The deeper Romney gets drawn into the mud, and he's deeper in it now "You're a liar, no you are" gives an advantage to Obama.

 

Summary of polls:

 

http://www.realclear...1171.html#polls

 

If the election was tomorrow morning, Obama would win but there is still a long way to go and it if the economy still is in the shitter, more people will listen to Romney's message.

[fjl2nd]

The Romney campaign has been BRUTAL. Not sure how anyone on the right could feel slightly confident in winning this election. If the election happened today, Obama would win in a landslide. (Basing it off electoral votes)

[meazza]

The Romney campaign has been BRUTAL. Not sure how anyone on the right could feel slightly confident in winning this election. If the election happened today, Obama would win in a landslide. (Basing it off electoral votes)

 

Great analysis there.

[Buftex]

I said it earlier this year and still believe that Obama will win. Drawing Mitt into this battle over Bain and tax records makes Mitt look like a fool. Romney should answer this stuff once and stay on message. Instead, every day, it's another round of Bain explanations. To me, getting drawn into this is one of his bigger political missteps. The deeper Romney gets drawn into the mud, and he's deeper in it now "You're a liar, no you are" gives an advantage to Obama.

 

Summary of polls:

 

http://www.realclear...1171.html#polls

 

 

Like meazza said (that !@#$ing retard! ) polls don't matter all that much now...which is why, if I were Romney, I would just put this issue to bed now, rather than let it linger into the fall.

 

He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The Chicago gang will distort the returns if he releases them and claim he's hiding something if he doesn't. If I was Romney I'd refuse to release any more records other than what he has agreed to do. I'd just pound the fact that they are trying to change the conversation from the economy. Every time they try to even bring it up I'd mention the fact that they are trying to change the conversation. Then I'd talk some more about the economy. When done, I'd start a new conversation about the economy, and again and again.

 

That would be Bachman-esque on his part!