....lybob Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 What? I'm about a contemptuous of him as I am of you. And he knows it. That's like calling London prostitutes Jack the Ripper's sidekicks. Not unusual, both Richard Ramirez and Ted Bundy had groupies and more marriage proposals than you could shake a stick at - 3rdrate may just be your Harley Quinn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Those mariage proposals must have been tempting. Not unusual, both Richard Ramirez and Ted Bundy had groupies and more marriage proposals than you could shake a stick at - 3rdrate may just be your Harley Quinn. Don't you think that it is rather weak and the sign of a low-life to try to ride the coatails of someone that is your superior? DC is nothing more than a laughed at Cliff Clavin. With that said, he is many times your superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Omg, you even have Tom in you signature statement Wow, you are a little tool and you even advertise it! Anyway, using torture, trying to use torture induced confessions in court and other information obtained by torture in legal proceedings is so asinine that only Conservatives coil be yammering for it You are ether a troll or profoundly stupid. legal proceedings? No one want's to send them to trial. It's called gathering military intelligence. Did you know we also intercept communications without a court order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Can nobody make a point of calling out a way of thinking in this country without offering up something just as stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARCELL DAREUS POWER Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) The problem with water boarding or any form of torture is it does not line up with our supposed values of due process. Due process in the sense that the conflict or specific fight is over and that person or persons is captured. I think most people would feel uncomfortable if this is applied to domestic terrorists or “ supposed anti-state activity”, IE AMERICAN CITIZENS… this is not a slippery slope argument. Its totally within boundary to assume that the state will use such measures against any perceived threat to its power. Many question the murder of anwar al alaki and his son. All they ever did was give money to fringe jihadi groups and spout Islamic nonsense on you tube. This should frighten all of us or at least give some people pause. Now I don’t want to come across like there is no moral dilemma. The ticking time bomb is very much a real possibility and the threat is much harder to deal with when we are not talking about state action but rather cells all over the world independent of state hierarchy. So intell is very important. I think the main underlying problem is you have to weigh the moral dilemma of losing due process to foreign citizens and due process for american citizens vs. stopping a potential terrorist attack. I would argue that fearing the state is much more reasonable. I think this whole argument is a distraction in some sense and in reality obfuscates what the real problem is. The reason a vast majority of the arab/Islamic world hate us is not because of our way of life. That is just ridiculous. The reason they hate our government is because of what our foreign policy has been since the balfour declaration. From installing dictator after dicator, stealing resources, murdering literally millions, systematically supporting the torture and pure intimidation of innocent people, we have made our enemies. As Chomsky states, “ if you want to stop terrorism, then stop participating in it”… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq%E2%80%93United_States_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93United_States_relations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia%E2%80%93United_States_relations Support for Mubarak another dictator… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Yemen_relations This is just a very short list. What is so ironic is the right wing constantly warns against state power, yet is quick to defend its psychopathic traits overseas… or even not talk about domestic tyranny, ie the patriot act or ndaa etc.. the level of cognitive dissonance from corolla is mind-boggling.. If you isolate just one event during this time frame post balfour in 1917 I believe, the U.S. is responsible for over a million deaths when moving saddam against iran… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War that’s right, the U.S. is responsible for over a million people being murdered. So when the right wing warns people about terrorism, please point the mirror at the U.S. government. Should sober people up real quick. I will side with due process against the state every time… Edited May 7, 2012 by MARCELL DAREUS POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Congratulations. I think you scored the most profoundly bizzare post on PPP ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I will side with due process against the state every time… Which due process are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Congratulations. I think you scored the most profoundly bizzare post on PPP ever. Who? Marcell Dareus, a member since '09? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Who's the whore here? Siding with BFBF to try to mess with me is pretty weak. It's lonely here at the top but looking down on you as the mudgeon that you are, allows me a sense of my natural entitlement over the likes of you. Yeah, I basically call you both the equivalent of navel lint, and you somehow interpret that as siding with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Anyway, using torture, trying to use torture induced confessions in court and other information obtained by torture in legal proceedings is so asinine that only Conservatives coil be yammering for it What is the alternative? The problem with water boarding or any form of torture is it does not line up with our supposed values of due process. Except that by using waterboarding, due process IS being followed, as its a form of interrogation, one of the first steps taken when a person with an allegation of crime against him/her is taken into custody. Then you go on about them hating us for "stealing resources." Is that why I have to shell out $75 to get 13 gallons of fuel and a few weeks later the Saudis **** out the same $75 I forked over? Becuase the "evil" United States is "stealing" from them? Edited May 7, 2012 by RkFast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I will say upfront, that I don't like it and it is torture. But I don't like war either, and sometimes we have to do that as well. Whether you need it or not, it is torture, and doesn't need to be wrapped in a ridiculous PC label that nobody believes anyways. Also- it is perfectly legal, as the Geneva Conventions do not apply to terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Let's waterboard Chomsky and hook up a car battery to his balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I will say upfront, that I don't like it and it is torture. But I don't like war either, and sometimes we have to do that as well. Whether you need it or not, it is torture, and doesn't need to be wrapped in a ridiculous PC label that nobody believes anyways. Also- it is perfectly legal, as the Geneva Conventions do not apply to terrorists. Heres my problem with the whole deal. Even WITH waterboarding the United States is STILL head and shoulders above the rest of the world in terms of human rights and dealing with stuff like this. No, our record is not perfect. But how we carry ourselves when conffronted with this moral question is still better and more humane than everyone else. And not for nothing...whats with this "the US should be held to a higher standard" nonsense? What? The rest of the first world, heck...even the second world are a bunch of neanderthal do-do's who, when they mistreat their prisoners and criminals, are to be excused for it becuase they are too dumb to know the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Heres my problem with the whole deal. Even WITH waterboarding the United States is STILL head and shoulders above the rest of the world in terms of human rights and dealing with stuff like this. No, our record is not perfect. But how we carry ourselves when conffronted with this moral question is still better and more humane than everyone else. And not for nothing...whats with this "the US should be held to a higher standard" nonsense? What? The rest of the first world, heck...even the second world are a bunch of neanderthal do-do's who, when they mistreat their prisoners and criminals, are to be excused for it becuase they are too dumb to know the difference? I have no problem with people wanting to hold themselves to a higher standard, but they also need to be practical at times. There were things a lot worse than water boarding going on at the prisons- and I mean the things that weren't for interrogating purposes. The book I am reading covers this whole topic in depth and is pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 What is the alternative? Except that by using waterboarding, due process IS being followed, as its a form of interrogation, one of the first steps taken when a person with an allegation of crime against him/her is taken into custody. Then you go on about them hating us for "stealing resources." Is that why I have to shell out $75 to get 13 gallons of fuel and a few weeks later the Saudis **** out the same $75 I forked over? Becuase the "evil" United States is "stealing" from them? well, you might want to talk to 3rd. he's quite certain that the us could be energy independent any day now if we just willed it. then your $75 could go straight to exxon without going through the saudis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RkFast Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 well, you might want to talk to 3rd. he's quite certain that the us could be energy independent any day now if we just willed it. then your $75 could go straight to exxon without going through the saudis. Yeah....who wants American based companies to profit and be wildly successful? Thats just "evil, selfish" thinking on our part!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 well, you might want to talk to 3rd. he's quite certain that the us could be energy independent any day now if we just willed it. then your $75 could go straight to exxon without going through the saudis. Why do you misrepresent what I stated? Is it because if you don't misrepresent, you have nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 The world changed on 9/11/01. I don't care if they slowly dismember terrorists go get information. You go down that path, you get what's coming to you. But waterboarding is incredibly humane compared to other forms of torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I don't mind Alison so much as the newsgirl. She comes up with some good zingers that are ignored. Part of it is Adam ignoring her more than he gives deference to Teresa given their decade together on air. The other part is that Alison is not assertive in the conversations. Alison's podcast otoh, totally blows. I listen to Ace just about every day, too. I'm glad that so many others on here do. I really hope that he's able to make the podcast format a very viable alternative to radio. I love the format, being able to listen to things on my time, etc.......But, yeah Alison's podcast isn't very good. There are many out there now, but not many that can get me to listen. I loooove T. Her chemistry with Adam is great and they are so good at ad libbing about just about anything. I even bought her book to support her and because I knew it would be good even though I don't have kids. But, I do like Alison, too. You describe it perfectly - she has good zingers that Adam just ignores. If there is a guest in the studio at the time, they usually laugh - because they are really funny! But, Adam just plows ahead. He obviously respects T much more. She should never have quit. They had really hit their stride when she did. But, I wish he gave Alison a better chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 But, I do like Alison, too. You describe it perfectly - she has good zingers that Adam just ignores. If there is a guest in the studio at the time, they usually laugh - because they are really funny! But, Adam just plows ahead. He obviously respects T much more. She should never have quit. They had really hit their stride when she did. But, I wish he gave Alison a better chance. T had a tough choice. ACE Broadcasting wasn't a sure thing two yrs ago and she needed a better paying gig. Was she married at the time? She probably wishes she had stayed as the podcast seems to have a paying future for Carolla & cast, but it wasn't a certainty when she jumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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