Trayvon Martin Case

[....lybob]

I wanted to wait for BFMF to respond before giving you a substantive explanation. I'll keep this simple. While it has been determined that the equal protection clause protects people rather than classes of people, it's primary function is to protect people against LAWS that give disparate treatement. It could be used to challenge unequal enforcement of otherwise valid law, but this is not a case that would lend itself to such application. You'd need to establish a strong pattern of unequal treatment of individuals by the state. For this you would need to demonstrate that under virtually identical fact patterns different people received different treatment on the basis of race. There is no evidence of this here and thus it would be a VERY tenuous argument just to justify DOJs involvement, let alone application to the facts of this particular case.

How do you know until you do an investigation? It's not like they're running down there and throwing people in prison, maybe they investigate and find nothing appropriate to their jurisdiction but it's silly to see they don't have the right to investigate - and of course if Obama thinks Zimmerman is causing harm to the country then he can have him whisked away to a black site for indefinite detention or have him killed after undefined due process.

[DC Tom]

How do you know until you do an investigation? It's not like they're running down there and throwing people in prison, maybe they investigate and find nothing appropriate to their jurisdiction but it's silly to see they don't have the right to investigate - and of course if Obama thinks Zimmerman is causing harm to the country then he can have him whisked away to a black site for indefinite detention or have him killed after undefined due process.

 

I'm sure that in the confines of your own head, this argument makes complete sense.

 

You should have kept it there.

[Rob's House]

How do you know until you do an investigation? It's not like they're running down there and throwing people in prison, maybe they investigate and find nothing appropriate to their jurisdiction but it's silly to see they don't have the right to investigate - and of course if Obama thinks Zimmerman is causing harm to the country then he can have him whisked away to a black site for indefinite detention or have him killed after undefined due process.

Forgetting for a minute the legal implications, it's just down right silly for the AG to go on a fishing expedition based on what we have here. To follow your logic there isn't any situation that wouldn't warrant a Federal investigation because you wouldn't really know for certain that there wasn't some applicable issue until you investigated every possible angle. And while it's obviously not illegal for Holder to poke around and ask questions (no law against asking questions), launching a full-fledged federal investigation into the matter would be an abuse of power at best. It is no less absurd than Bush involving himself in the Terry Shiavo incident. The reality here is that Holder is part of a regime that is obsessed with race and racism; particularly anti-black racism, other racism not so much. This has very little to do with him fulfilling any legitimate role of his position and everything to do with him taking advantage of his position to further his own goals based on personal prejudices and it's multiplied by the media attention this is receiving.

 

Of course morons like BFMF are numerous and have no regard for such inconveniences as separation of powers and jurisdiction as long as it furthers an end that makes him feel good.

[IDBillzFan]

Forgive me for not paying closer attention to this, but I thought I heard today that the Hispanic guy with the German name lived in a gated community, and that the boy he killed lived in it as well. And that this took place within the community. Did I hear that right?

[....lybob]

I'm sure that in the confines of your own head, this argument makes complete sense.

 

You should have kept it there.

Tom I'm sure in the confines of your head you think you're intelligent, maybe your Mom said you were a smart boy or your father called you a clever lad but they were just being nice at least that's my opinion based on a couple thousand posts of yours- I did miss the first 28,000 give or take so maybe at one time you were scintillating and then went senile.

[Alaska Darin]

Hey! Remember me?

 

Sincerely,

The Duke Lacrosse "Case"

[3rdnlng]

Hey! Remember me?

 

Sincerely,

The Duke Lacrosse "Case"

 

You mean those guys that brutally raped the innocent black girl? What ever happened to that district attorney?

[DC Tom]

You mean those guys that brutally raped the innocent black girl? What ever happened to that district attorney?

 

Weren't they convicted for violating federal "equal protection" charges?

[3rdnlng]

Weren't they convicted for violating federal "equal protection" charges?

 

 

It was for not using any protection.

[birdog1960]

some interesting racial history in good ole sanford. running off jackie robinson....sure, it's background info but possibly part of the rest of the story. and no npr and pbs aren't my only sources of news.

[3rdnlng]

some interesting racial history in good ole sanford. running off jackie robinson....sure, it's background info but possibly part of the rest of the story. and no npr and pbs aren't my only sources of news.

That seems pretty typical of race relations over the years. To conclude that Sanford is a hotbed of racism now is ridiculous. I guess it is possible that it is but seems like just a typical southern community.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I also heard that about Sanford... Seems around 1911 or so, the all black town of Goldsboro was absorbed by Sanford.. A lot of animosity stems from that due to the economic inequality in that takeover... Still to this day. Quite shocking 100 years later. On NPR, they interviewed a man who's boss was deathly afraid of touching an African American.

[IDBillzFan]

some interesting racial history in good ole sanford. running off jackie robinson....sure, it's background info but possibly part of the rest of the story. and no npr and pbs aren't my only sources of news.

I'm sure the young boy with Skittles and iced tea would be thrilled to find out that his senseless murder is no longer about him, but about advancing a story of racism based on the possibility that somehow a Jackie Robinson story is relevant to his death.

 

Jesus.

[3rdnlng]

I also heard that about Sanford... Seems around 1911 or so, the all black town of Goldsboro was absorbed by Sanford.. A lot of animosity stems from that due to the economic inequality in that takeover... Still to this day. Quite shocking 100 years later. On NPR, they interviewed a man who's boss was deathly afraid of touching an African American.

 

 

Very good. You actually clicked on the link and read the article. Then you took everything in the article that appears racist and repeated it.

[ExiledInIllinois]

<br />I'm sure the young boy with Skittles and iced tea would be thrilled to find out that his senseless murder is no longer about him, but about advancing a story of racism based on the possibility that somehow a Jackie Robinson story is relevant to his death.<br /><br />Jesus.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Really. If that was me pushing daisies... I would be thrilled! It is not about him anymore... Except for the family wanting justice... It is about not letting another Trayvon die. And yes, it is relevant to bring up past history to light.

 

<br />Very good. You actually clicked on the link and read the article. Then you took everything in the article that appears racist and repeated it.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

I didn't read the article... I Listened to the program in the car earlier. Sorry, just shooting from the hip again... Nothing wrong with it... Just talking.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

The only thing obvious here is that you're a !@#$ing retard. Before we get into the DOJ's role let's start with the assumptions you've pulled straight out of your ass.

 

First, how do we know this was a racial killing? We don't. I saw a piece on this case last night and it sounded to me like he said "these !@#$S always get away with it". Do we just take your preconceived notion that he muct have meant blacks when he said !@#$s. Is there no other possible inference?

 

Second, you have no !@#$ing idea what transpired. Nor do I. For all you know the kid was up to something nefarious, saw the guy following him, attacked him, and during the attack the guy pulled out his gun and shot him. You don't know. The cops who know a hell of a lot more about the situation and the law than you don't yet believe they have a strong enough case to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

So the only actual FACTS you're basing your assumption on is that the kid was black and the guy was pursuing him prior to whatever altercation took place. So to follow your reasoning to its logical conclusion, any time a black kid is shot by someone who isn't also black, and the local cops don't prosecute right away, The Attorney General of the US should stick his nose in the middle of it. Or is it only in cases that the national media picks up and exploits?

 

And I love your assertion that it is the role of the DOJ to pursue a local law enforcement case that is light on facts with long odds on prosecution to make sure the black community "knows it's been heard." If it was a white kid who got shot do you think for half a second Eric Holder would give two ***** and a good god damn about this case? Would you be calling for his involvement? Should they prosecute a guy they didn't think was guilty to appease the white community's need to be heard?

 

Also, if the local cops are in dereliction of duty wouldn't it follow that the state would pursue this before jumping straight to the !@#$ing feds. Why don't you look up the word "Federalism" and get back to me. After you do that how about citing a source from which the DOJ would derive the authority to pursue this in the first case, because the court isn't very receptive to the "we overreached the bounds of our authority because we thought it was for a good cause" argument. At least ...lybob made an attempt, futile though it may have been, to address this key issue.

 

Wow, you could have read the part where I said based on the facts that we currently have and saved yourself this entire rant of absolute drivel.

 

A Hispanic man chased down and shot an unarmed black youth is a fact in this case. I did not pull it out of my ass. The DoJ is investigating at this point. They are not prosecuting. Did you get that point? If new evidence comes to light it may change the case. However, at this point it looks like an obvious racial killing.

[DC Tom]

It is not about him anymore... Except for the family wanting justice... It is about not letting another Trayvon die.

 

Yeah. And you must be the only person in the country that thinks "rainbow-farting unicorn" is literal, and not a metaphor.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

Forgetting for a minute the legal implications, it's just down right silly for the AG to go on a fishing expedition based on what we have here. To follow your logic there isn't any situation that wouldn't warrant a Federal investigation because you wouldn't really know for certain that there wasn't some applicable issue until you investigated every possible angle. And while it's obviously not illegal for Holder to poke around and ask questions (no law against asking questions), launching a full-fledged federal investigation into the matter would be an abuse of power at best. It is no less absurd than Bush involving himself in the Terry Shiavo incident. The reality here is that Holder is part of a regime that is obsessed with race and racism; particularly anti-black racism, other racism not so much. This has very little to do with him fulfilling any legitimate role of his position and everything to do with him taking advantage of his position to further his own goals based on personal prejudices and it's multiplied by the media attention this is receiving.

 

Of course morons like BFMF are numerous and have no regard for such inconveniences as separation of powers and jurisdiction as long as it furthers an end that makes him feel good.

 

Talk about pulling facts out of your ass...

[3rdnlng]

<br /><br /><br />

 

Really. If that was me pushing daisies... I would be thrilled! It is not about him anymore... Except for the family wanting justice... It is about not letting another Trayvon die. And yes, it is relevant to bring up past history to light.

 

<br /><br /><br />

 

I didn't read the article... I Listened to the program in the car earlier. Sorry, just shooting from the hip again... Nothing wrong with it... Just talking.

 

 

You listen to schit that happened 100 years ago (other than Jackie Robinson not getting to play in a spring training game) and assume that it's a racist community now? I heard that this guy Zimmermann had lacerations both on the front of his neck and the back. How true? Who knows? He could have done it to himself. All the people getting their panties all in a wad should just sit back and let it play out. As Darin said, remember the Duke lacrosse player f'up? How about Tawnya Brawley? Don't be so anxious to come to conclusions.

Edited March 23, 2012 by 3rdnlng

[ExiledInIllinois]

<br />Yeah.  And you must be the only person in the country that thinks "rainbow-farting unicorn" is literal, and not a metaphor.<br />

 

Spock you ignorant fool... It is okay to have some emotion!

 

<br />You listen to schit that happened 100 years ago (other than Jackie Robinson not getting to play in a spring training game) and assume that it's a racist community now? I heard that this guy Zimmermann had lacerations both on the front of his neck and the back. How true? Who knows? He could have done it to himself. All the people getting their panties all in a wad should just sit back and let it play out. As Darin said, remember the Duke lacrosse player f'up? How about Tawnya Brawley? Don't be so anxious to come to conclusions.<br />

 

WOW! Sweet mother of God... Where the heck did you come up with this schit? Tom giving you reading comp lessons again?

[birdog1960]

I'm sure the young boy with Skittles and iced tea would be thrilled to find out that his senseless murder is no longer about him, but about advancing a story of racism based on the possibility that somehow a Jackie Robinson story is relevant to his death.

 

Jesus.

racism is as relevant when it's metered out by david duke or louis farakhan. hate crimes happen. whether this was a hate crime or not is yet to be seen or even investigated but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. given the circumstances, i think the victim would agree if he were witness to a similar incident.

[3rdnlng]

Spock you ignorant fool... It is okay to have some emotion!

 

 

 

WOW! Sweet mother of God... Where the heck did you come up with this schit? Tom giving you reading comp lessons again?

 

I'm telling your simpleton mind that you might just want to step back and let all the facts come out. Tom, my protege, has nothing to do with this.

[ExiledInIllinois]

<br />I'm telling your simpleton mind that you might just want to step back and let all the facts come out. Tom, my protege, has nothing to do with this.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I was mostly referring to how you think I was saying Sanford was a racist town.  SURE let the grand jury rule... Shouldn't they have already?  If this stuff didn't hit the fan... Would a grand jury have even been called? Edited March 23, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois

[ExiledInIllinois]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/opinion/granderson-florida-shootings/

[3rdnlng]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/22/opinion/granderson-florida-shootings/

 

 

Do you really want to go there? Stop and think.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

Do you really want to go there? Stop and think.

 

Yeah, the fact that the city has a history of racism is not relative to the case at all. Ignore it.

[3rdnlng]

Yeah, the fact that the city has a history of racism is not relative to the case at all. Ignore it.

 

 

Fatty, you just don't get it. The article stated that the only perceived racism in the last 100 years was a boss that didn't touch a black guy and that they wouldn't let Jackie Robinson play ball there. Acceptable today, no. Do you think that was any different than any other southern city then? So, what happened 50-100 years ago is what caused this Spanish guy to shoot a black teenager? Who says to ignore it? Let the facts come out, and quit being a Bigfatstupidbillsfan.

[ExiledInIllinois]

<br />Fatty, you just don't get it. The article stated that the only perceived racism in the last 100 years was a boss that didn't touch a black guy and that they wouldn't let Jackie Robinson play ball there. Acceptable today, no. Do you think that was any different than any other southern city then? So, what happened 50-100 years ago is what caused this Spanish guy to shoot a black teenager? Who says to ignore it? Let the facts come out, and quit being a Bigfatstupidbillsfan.<br />

 

You are way off base in your analysis. Do not take this story so personal. The facts should have been out by now. Unfortunately one critical fact: testing Zimmerman for being under the influence will never be. The facts are forever tainted.

[Rob's House]

Yeah, the fact that the city has a history of racism is not relative to the case at all. Ignore it.

After the schooling you got earlier I thought you'd wise up, but apparently I was wrong. The article he was referring to in the post you're responding to didn't mention dick **** about the history of racism in the city. It's possibly the most poorly written piece I've ever seen published by a major media outlet, and that's quite a statement. It's a bunch of emotionally charged conjecture with the conclusion that there is an epidimic of racist white cops victimizing blacks which is supported by listing four such instances that occurred over a 21 year span across a nation of 300+ million people.

 

I assume you thought he was referring to the article Birddog posted. It had a little more pertinent evidence. Apparently 65 years ago a clerk in a store didn't want to touch black people and Jackie Robinson was "run out of town", whatever that means. I'm not sure what to derive from that, but I'm sure in your mental construct of the world this is a prima facie case that the racist police force is engaged in a conspiracy to enable Hispanics to kill black kids with impunity.

[Alaska Darin]

Yeah, the fact that the city has a history of racism is not relative to the case at all. Ignore it.

Just when we think we've seen the absolute bottom of your stupidity well, you start digging again.

[ieatcrayonz]

Yeah, the fact that the city has a history of racism is not relative to the case at all. Ignore it.

I'm confused. You usually like mocking dead people like my Uncle Geno but in this thread you aren't. It is a step in the right direction. Would you like to apologize about Geno?

[Juror#8]

The fact is, there are still some outstanding issues that need to be brought to light.

 

I tend to think that, at least presumptively, Zimmerman is culpable for an illegal act because:

 

-He appears to have ignored the admonitions of police during the 911 phone call

-He had a weapon and appeared to have adjudicated the matter in his mind (based on his comments to 911 dispatcher)

-He couldn't point to anything that Martin was doing wrong during the call. Martin wasn't encroaching on someone else's property, nor was he randomly looking into vehicles. In fact, there was nothing said that indicated that he was doing anything that would even justify a simple Terry stop.

 

So based on these CIRCUMSTANTIAL things, and without the benefit of any additional info, Zimmerman is gonna be on the hook for some kind of criminal offense.

 

On the civil side, and with respect to the Equal Protection Clause, it is somewhat difficult to bring against a municipality. Also, there needs to be some kind of pattern and practice or an articulated policy to show disparate treatment or metrics to demonstrate disparate impact. And....(check my facts on this cause I'm not sure), I think that the only remedy in an EP action is injunctive relief. That is fantastic so that other folks don't have to go through the same problems, but it wouldn't provide much in the way of financial compensation for the family.

 

EPCs are not impossible, just difficult.

 

The better play is to use 1983 civil action to enforce a due process claim against Zimmerman. They don't have to rely on issues of protected classifications and race. If they can demonstrate that Zimmerman was somehow acting under color of law (which is gonna be a doozy of a creative argument - but not impossible if the local and state police somehow recognized his community watch group as a "partner" in combatting crime or something to that effect), they can hang the "deprivation of life, liberty, property" clause around his neck, and by extension, the neck's of the munipical authorities, via 1983.

 

1983 is complicated legislation and doesn't confer any substantive legal claim. It just kind of makes other laws broader. If you know how to use it right, though, it has some punch. I also don't remember how 1983 operates in conjunction with common law tort and contract actions. So if his attorney's can find SOME precedent for using common law respondeat superior claims in 1983 actions, it could be a windfall for Martin's family because they can use Zimmerman to get into the municipality's pockets. Otherwise, their claims for damages are going to hit a wall after Zimmerman files Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

The first instance of injustice surrounding the Trayvon Martin tragedy occurred February 26, the night George Zimmerman decided to pursue, confront and ultimately shoot and kill Martin.

 

George Zimmerman? Isn't he the guy in the Men's Wearhouse commercials?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

After the schooling you got earlier I thought you'd wise up, but apparently I was wrong. The article he was referring to in the post you're responding to didn't mention dick **** about the history of racism in the city. It's possibly the most poorly written piece I've ever seen published by a major media outlet, and that's quite a statement. It's a bunch of emotionally charged conjecture with the conclusion that there is an epidimic of racist white cops victimizing blacks which is supported by listing four such instances that occurred over a 21 year span across a nation of 300+ million people.

 

I assume you thought he was referring to the article Birddog posted. It had a little more pertinent evidence. Apparently 65 years ago a clerk in a store didn't want to touch black people and Jackie Robinson was "run out of town", whatever that means. I'm not sure what to derive from that, but I'm sure in your mental construct of the world this is a prima facie case that the racist police force is engaged in a conspiracy to enable Hispanics to kill black kids with impunity.

 

The schooling I got earlier? Are you talking about your giant rant of drivel? If that's the kind of schooling you recieved you may want to ask for you money back.

 

Just when we think we've seen the absolute bottom of your stupidity well, you start digging again.

 

You are a !@#$ing retard. 'nough said.

[RkFast]

!@#$ Al Sharpon. !@#$ the media who LOVES these stories and stokes the flames to sell papers. !@#$ Jesse Jackson. !@#$ Obama for sticking his nose in the situation AGAIN. !@#$ white guilt-ridden !@#$s who feel the need to pat black people on the head to show how "not racist" they are. !@#$ black people for getting all "outraged" over this while stepping over the bodies on their own sidewalks littered with bullet holes put in them by other black people, !@#$ Eric Holder that incompetent shitbag for getting involved in this, but ignoring worse criminal cases and !@#$ lybob and other liberal !@#$s just on general principal.

[IDBillzFan]

!@#$ Al Sharpon. !@#$ the media who LOVES these stories and stokes the flames to sell papers. !@#$ Jesse Jackson. !@#$ Obama for sticking his nose in the situation AGAIN. !@#$ white guilt-ridden !@#$s who feel the need to pat black people on the head to show how "not racist" they are. !@#$ black people for getting all "outraged" over this while stepping over the bodies on their own sidewalks littered with bullet holes put in them by other black people, !@#$ Eric Holder that incompetent shitbag for getting involved in this, but ignoring worse criminal cases and !@#$ lybob and other liberal !@#$s just on general principal.

Did I just hear the President say that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon?

 

Jesus, this guy has a really bad habit of putting a bunch of gunpowder out there while handing out complimentary matches. You just know someone is going to say something stupid in response to this, and it will be the headlines for the next three weeks while no one pays attention to the real problems this idiot is ignoring.

[Rob's House]

The schooling I got earlier? Are you talking about your giant rant of drivel? If that's the kind of schooling you recieved you may want to ask for you money back.

Great, so now you're stealing my lines. That's okay, you can have them. And if it makes you feel better to refer to the evisceration of your feeble attempt at an argument "drivel" then far be it from me to deny you the comfort you get from that.

 

What's genuinely humorous is watching you arrogantly parading around genuinely oblivious to how absurd your positions are. It's like watching dumb and dumber.

 

The fact that you think placing the label of "racial killing" on this incident somehow opens the door to Eric Holder proceeding with an official investigation is great. What makes it great is that you come with it as though you've just laid down a trump card no one else saw coming, when unbeknownst to you all you did was remove all doubt. Would you be so kind as to indulge me and explain how "racial killing" is a game changer here?

 

Did I just hear the President say that if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon?

 

Jesus, this guy has a really bad habit of putting a bunch of gunpowder out there while handing out complimentary matches. You just know someone is going to say something stupid in response to this, and it will be the headlines for the next three weeks while no one pays attention to the real problems this idiot is ignoring.

Are you serious? I thought the Sandra Flake think was a shameless ploy but this takes the cake.

[meazza]

Are you serious? I thought the Sandra Flake think was a shameless ploy but this takes the cake.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

 

Obama said Trayvon Martin's death particularly resonated with him as an African-American parent.

 

"If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon," Obama said in brief remarks outside the White House.

 

 

[GG]

!@#$ Al Sharpon. !@#$ the media who LOVES these stories and stokes the flames to sell papers. !@#$ Jesse Jackson. !@#$ Obama for sticking his nose in the situation AGAIN. !@#$ white guilt-ridden !@#$s who feel the need to pat black people on the head to show how "not racist" they are. !@#$ black people for getting all "outraged" over this while stepping over the bodies on their own sidewalks littered with bullet holes put in them by other black people, !@#$ Eric Holder that incompetent shitbag for getting involved in this, but ignoring worse criminal cases and !@#$ lybob and other liberal !@#$s just on general principal.

 

The saddest commentary about Sharpton is that his mother just passed away... yet he's still on his way to Florida.

[IDBillzFan]

The saddest commentary about Sharpton is that his mother just passed away... yet he's still on his way to Florida.

Not to mention, he likely will have a harder time saying this is racial considering the guy who killed him is Hispanic.

 

I suspect Sharpton heard "Zimmerman" and immediately assumed Trayvon was killed by a cracka. So to recap; it's bad for a white person to kill a black person, and it's bad for a Hispanic to kill a black, but blacks can kill themselves each and every day, and that's okay with Sharpton since he never pays it any mind.

 

Got it.