Outside Linebackers

[gobillsinytown]

Not really sure what you're saying? College defenses adjust their fronts just like the pros do especially with all of the spread offenses. Do you think USC is going to stay in their base cover 2 when they're playing Oregon? No. The 43 over is going to be the Bills base D and their fronts will be dictated by the offensive personnel on the field...that's football.

 

Sorry I got off on a tangent a little....the point being that whether a team is running a 43 or 34 is almost becoming immaterial. And while college defenses do make adjustments, it's not to the same level that NFL defenses do. NFL defenses adjust not only based on the offense on the field, but also on down and distance. And NFL defenses are much more sophisticated in terms of disguising coverages, pre snap movement, blitzing, etc. So related to the topic at hand, linebackers are no longer static in terms of where they play on the field, especially with elite athletes. So if the Bills' were to draft one of the top linebackers in this draft, they're likely to move him around to try to exploit his athleticism. For example, the Broncos put Vonn Miller all over the field last year, because his athleticism and smart play enabled them to move him around to exploit weaknesses. This draft is going to be very interesting, because signing Mario gives the team a whole new look at their draft board.

[Estro]

Imo Lavonne David is a top 40 prospect.....especially considering the need for LB's to be good in coverage in todays NFL. So I think there's a 50/50 shot he'll be on the board when we pick at #42, my gut is telling me he'll be picked before then though.

 

If you believe all the mock drafts though, they typically have him going mid 2ndround round to mid 3rd round.

 

The more I look into him, they more I want him to be a Buffalo Bill

[NewEra]

1332017099[/url]' post='2412805']

Which is why we need to draft a LB who excels in nickel/passing situations, ala, Lavonte David. He can contribute immediately, and Nick Barnett is getting older. so he'll eventually take over his spot.

 

Agreed. He'd be the perfect addition in rd2 or 3. While I love Irvin's athleticism, he's a pass rusher. Maybe his game can grow into more than that, but we don't need a pass rushing LB. we need guys that can cover and tackle. I'd be happy if we took Irvin, as I think he's an interesting player with tremendous burst, but he really doesn't fit what we're looking for at OLB (unless he improves his coverage)

[Matt in KC]

Sorry I got off on a tangent a little....the point being that whether a team is running a 43 or 34 is almost becoming immaterial. And while college defenses do make adjustments, it's not to the same level that NFL defenses do. NFL defenses adjust not only based on the offense on the field, but also on down and distance. And NFL defenses are much more sophisticated in terms of disguising coverages, pre snap movement, blitzing, etc. So related to the topic at hand, linebackers are no longer static in terms of where they play on the field, especially with elite athletes. So if the Bills' were to draft one of the top linebackers in this draft, they're likely to move him around to try to exploit his athleticism. For example, the Broncos put Vonn Miller all over the field last year, because his athleticism and smart play enabled them to move him around to exploit weaknesses. This draft is going to be very interesting, because signing Mario gives the team a whole new look at their draft board.

I'd love for any of those to accurately describe the Bills defense!

• sophisticated
  
• disguised coverages
  
• pre-snap movement
  
• blitzing
  
• elite athletes
  

We haven't even hit the draft yet and I'm already really excited to see our new defense!

[Kelly the Dog]

I'd love for any of those to accurately describe the Bills defense!

• sophisticated
• disguised coverages
• pre-snap movement
• blitzing
• elite athletes

We haven't even hit the draft yet and I'm already really excited to see our new defense!

From what I have read and heard, it's just the opposite. Wanny wants to simplify the defense, and let players play rather than think. They even told Mario, for example, that he wouldn't have to drop back in coverage much on zone blitzes. They want to just line up and go after the quarterback, and let the plays have simple distinct duties and run to the ball.

[Reed83HOF]

I think we will look at LBs in the draft and of their value is rated higher than anyone else they will take them. Buddy, Chan and Wanny on are record saying they like our LBs and they see everyone being able to fit in the new system. I honestly think they are more than willing to ride with what have, provided we can't find good value in FA or the draft that is an upgrade. Although our base is a 43, that does NOT mean that there will be 3 LBs on the field that often. We could have 5-1-5 on the field a lot if it is the Jets or Phins (who will most likely be running teams this season) or a 4-2-5 or even a 4-1-6 against the Pats*. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if we took an LB or 2 in the mid-rounds (3-5).

[JPS]

Dont underestimate Sheppard, or count him out just yet. Kid was a force on LSU's defense, and the emotional leader. Im interested to see what he can do with Wanny at the helm (and Williams-Dareus-Williams-Merriman in front of him).

I hear you. I dunno. I just wonder if he's as good as Kuechly or Hightower....and whether that will make a difference on draft day.

 

The D Line is the key to this defense. Up field pressure and 1 gap schemes that lead to lots of TFLs and backfield havoc. Dareus will thrive playing 3 tech. 3 tech alignment alone will always give him the advantage to the strong side. I remember hearing Warren Sapp, who played 3 in this defense, say that Dareus's best position would be the 3...I'll take Sapp's word for it. KW is going to look a lot like the guy from 2 years ago because he's back in a 1 tech with a tilt which again gives him the advantage playside. I expect Bills opponents to running a lot of misdirection this year and then we'll see how good those LBs are. A guy like Keuckly would dominate in this defense and is a true Mike. His instincts are off the charts and he doesn't miss tackle. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if Buddy picks him.

 

 

Wanny ran the same defense at Pitt and has always run this defense. He's from the JJ/Butch Davis tree and they all run the same defense. He's not changing. Maybe we'll draft Coples to be "our" Tony Tolbert.

Maybe. Before the Williams signing, I knew their priorities, now I'm cloudy. I could see Hightower, Kuechly or Coples.

[ndirish1978]

Kuechly comes in, where does he play and what does that do to Shep. Can one of them shift over to SAM?

[JPS]

Jeez, if Kuechly runs a 4.55, why couldn't he be a SAM?

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Jeez, if Kuechly runs a 4.55, why couldn't he be a SAM?

 

Because the draft profiles list him as a middle linebacker. Other than that, there is no reason...

[DrDawkinstein]

While I was looking at film on Kluechy today, I assumed we would bring him in as an OLB. Leave Shep in the middle to thud, or hang out in the middle of the field. Let Kluechy cover and roam. JMO.

 

Kluchy at Sam, Sheppard at Mike, David at Will; sounds good to me.

Edited March 18, 2012 by DrDareustein

[ndirish1978]

Because the draft profiles list him as a middle linebacker. Other than that, there is no reason...

 

Yeah that's why I asked. His measurables are in line with a SAM linebacker or MIKE, but I think he's a better player than Shep and I would rather Shep, who is a bit slower, move outside

[boyst]

Sorry a little late to this but the Nickel was touched on quite a bit already.

 

A defense in this league is different then it used to be. You have 6 guys who can rotate in on a 4 man front, mostly the same skillset but some better then others at certain aspects, such as Merriman on pass rushing or Kelsay on runstuffing.

 

On the DB's you have guys who play the same skillset every down nearly only adjusting their priorities based on downs, distances, and who they match up against. A SS is going to do what he does, FS, CB, etc. too.

 

The LB's are the biggest variables, whether guys who can move sideline to sideline, guys who can backpedal and drop to coverage, or guys that bullrush the line. These guys are the most skilled athletes on the defensive side of the field directly matching up with the highest priority guys on offense. Regardless to the 3-4 or 4-3 you have to understand that any change in their attributes directly impacts what happens on the field.

 

With only 3 LB's on the field this year we have a lot more to cover. Speed in the middle will be important as well as CB's who can cover man to man this year, and safeties who can hold their own. The 4-3 in my eyes can expose the defense to long pass plays. However, due to the pressure created by the line the time it takes to develop that play might not be enough to let it mature.

 

Either way, getting back to my big bad drum; we need to sign Bryan Scott. To believe a rookie can come in to this league and play with the knowledge of whats going on is scary. He will get burned, if we make the playoffs he will get exposed in a play at least one time that could be costly. Scott brings to the table the experience, maturity and assets needed to fill this role for likely another 2 to 3 seasons. Until Welker is gone, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Lloyd, Sanchez weak arm that throws 10 yards or less even on 3rd down, and Miami's popgun offense...well, yeah, we need to be able to stop the plays that happen in the short game. I don't think NE will be able to play the long ball this year, even with Lloyd. His routes too irregular, the line too weak, Lloyd is a luxury pick that likely will only draw coverage on particular plays.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Yeah that's why I asked. His measurables are in line with a SAM linebacker or MIKE, but I think he's a better player than Shep and I would rather Shep, who is a bit slower, move outside

Sorry, just being sarky. I think he would be a great addition, because he could play all any LB spot, and stay on the field for all 3 downs.

[RealityCheck]

Scott has received an offer and thus far has declined. He is not the "answer" to anything we are doing on D. He is a good player in the right down and distance situations but he has limitations as a LB.

[mob16151]

Sean Spence from Miami in the second or Keenan Robinson from Texas in the 4th would both be good pickups.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Sorry a little late to this but the Nickel was touched on quite a bit already.

 

A defense in this league is different then it used to be. You have 6 guys who can rotate in on a 4 man front, mostly the same skillset but some better then others at certain aspects, such as Merriman on pass rushing or Kelsay on runstuffing.

 

On the DB's you have guys who play the same skillset every down nearly only adjusting their priorities based on downs, distances, and who they match up against. A SS is going to do what he does, FS, CB, etc. too.

 

The LB's are the biggest variables, whether guys who can move sideline to sideline, guys who can backpedal and drop to coverage, or guys that bullrush the line. These guys are the most skilled athletes on the defensive side of the field directly matching up with the highest priority guys on offense. Regardless to the 3-4 or 4-3 you have to understand that any change in their attributes directly impacts what happens on the field.

 

With only 3 LB's on the field this year we have a lot more to cover. Speed in the middle will be important as well as CB's who can cover man to man this year, and safeties who can hold their own. The 4-3 in my eyes can expose the defense to long pass plays. However, due to the pressure created by the line the time it takes to develop that play might not be enough to let it mature.

 

Either way, getting back to my big bad drum; we need to sign Bryan Scott. To believe a rookie can come in to this league and play with the knowledge of whats going on is scary. He will get burned, if we make the playoffs he will get exposed in a play at least one time that could be costly. Scott brings to the table the experience, maturity and assets needed to fill this role for likely another 2 to 3 seasons. Until Welker is gone, Gronk, Hernandez, Brady, Lloyd, Sanchez weak arm that throws 10 yards or less even on 3rd down, and Miami's popgun offense...well, yeah, we need to be able to stop the plays that happen in the short game. I don't think NE will be able to play the long ball this year, even with Lloyd. His routes too irregular, the line too weak, Lloyd is a luxury pick that likely will only draw coverage on particular plays.

 

I agree, they should resign Scott. They need more than just him though.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

He'd (David) be the perfect addition in rd2 or 3. While I love Irvin's athleticism, he's a pass rusher. Maybe his game can grow into more than that, but we don't need a pass rushing LB. we need guys that can cover and tackle. I'd be happy if we took Irvin, as I think he's an interesting player with tremendous burst, but he really doesn't fit what we're looking for at OLB (unless he improves his coverage)

I think Irvin will be one of the best players from this draft.

 

Almost every play I've watched of Irvin (about 175-200 snaps) has been maximum-effort, full-speed football. You watch some players, even good ones like Andre Branch and Dontari Poe and you can see them cruising from time to time. With Irvin he plays every play as if it's his last one. He is a hardcore football player.

 

For some dumb reason, West Virginia played Irvin as a DE in 3-4 and 3-3 fronts. He's 6'3" and 245 pounds and was playing mostly a 5-technique against 300-pound OTs. On obvious passing downs he would split out to a 7-technique. He was totally miscast as a DE and yet had 22.5 sacks (not including the 2 in Bowl Games) over the last two seasons. In spite of being miscast he more than held his own physically by showing great hand use, combativeness and explosion to match up against much larger men.

 

Irvin will be an OLB in the NFL and is probably perfectly suited as a 3-4 rushbacker but I think he'd be an awesome 4-3 backer too.

 

He shows great sense and instincts and his agility scores were by far the best at the combine.

 

Bruce Irvin had the best times in all of the drills among DEs, ILBs, and OLBs.

 

He outperformed Luke Keuchly and Lavonte David in almost every drill and blew away the entire field in the short shuttle and 3-cone drill where he had historically significant scores on top of 4.50 forty time which was also the best against every OLB, ILB, and DE… one of the best times ever.

 

I loved Von Miller last year but personally I think Irvin is a better prospect than Von MIller (he's as elite an athlete and much more physical) and will start rocketing up draft boards.

 

Bruce Irvin's best use would be as a pass rusher but with his speed, quickness, agility, and instincts, he could play any linebacker position easily. He could easily blanket tight ends and running backs and he'd be effective playing in zone coverages IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

[Geno Smith's Arm]

I think there are plenty of guys in this draft that can fit the bill, I just hope they draft one.

 

It's hard for me to get a feel for how well Irvin reads plays because he is always rushing from the line. In the Lavonte David footage, you can see how well he reads plays.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Matthews' Bag

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

I don't know if any of the Perry/Curry types have the change of direction skills needed. They might, but I'm just sayin I don't know for sure. I believe Branch tested well in those types of drills if I recall.......

Agree. Neither one of them showed great change of direstion at the combine. Perry did great in the athletic speed drills. I still have all the combine shows Tivoed. Irvin would seem a better fit but I would love to see Dont'a Hightower in the middle rather than Sheppard. Another guy who looked real athletic for OLB was Bobby Wagner from Utah St. And Andre Branch from Clemson looked like more of a "change of direction" guy than Curry.... by far. But I imagine Branch will be long gone before pick #41. Curry looks like a rush the passer only type.

I think Ronnell Lewis from Oklahoma would be a great pick up in round 2 if he makes it that far. Mean SOB.

And Zach Brown looks great but doesn't seem to have great fundamentals. I like what Mayock said about him.. Great athlete, very fast but I'm waiting to see on tape that first strong sound fundamental tackle. Don't know if we should pick someone that still needs to learn how to play properly.