95altima12 Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorry for the multiple posts about the Bills Cap but I am bored and tring to figure this out. http://www.nyjetscap.com/Bills/bills2012.php This site seems to make it sound like it's a no brainer to cut SM. Over 5 mil in cap savings but I read in a few places that there is no point in cutting SM that they might as well keep him around and see if he can get healthy? What does dead money mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 dead money counts against the cap but has already been actually paid in past years. (signing bonus that is paid at once, but hits the cap as a split over time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95altima12 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 dead money counts against the cap but has already been actually paid in past years. (signing bonus that is paid at once, but hits the cap as a split over time) So with only 1/2 mil in dead money and over 5 mil agaist the cap? Shouldn't Merriman be cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBD Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) As I understand it, could be wrong, the Bills use a cash to the cap system. Which I don't believe the linked website is using to determine the Bills cap numbers. I believe in that system any money paid out to the player will be applied to their cap. Merrimans contract according to rotoworld: 1/1/2011: Signed a two-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $5 million guaranteed, including a $1.5 million signing bonus, $1 million worth of first-year workout and reporting bonuses, and $3 million of his second-year base salary. Another $8 million is available through incentives, although $1 million is considered http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3171/player?r=1 So $3M of his 2nd year base salary is guaranteed, so they're going to be paying him $3M this year regardless. Which in their system would be applied to their cap, so whether he is on the team or not that $3M is going to be hitting their cap. As I said, this is how I think they work things, I could be wrong. Edited February 17, 2012 by Carey Bender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
95altima12 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 As I understand it, could be wrong, the Bills use a cash to the cap system. Which I don't believe the linked website is using to determine the Bills cap numbers. I believe, In that system any money paid out to the player will be applied to their cap. Merrimans contract according to rotoworld: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3171/player?r=1 So $3M of his 2nd year base salary is guaranteed, so they're going to be paying him $3M this year regardless. Which in their system would be applied to their cap, so whether he is on the team or not that $3M is going to be hitting their cap. As I said, this is how I think they work things, I could be wrong. That makes sense... like I said I have read a few times that is doesn't make sense to cut him so I was sure there is a reason somewhere in there. Let's just hope he can play for more then 1/2 a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sorry for the multiple posts about the Bills Cap but I am bored and tring to figure this out. http://www.nyjetscap.com/Bills/bills2012.php This site seems to make it sound like it's a no brainer to cut SM. Over 5 mil in cap savings but I read in a few places that there is no point in cutting SM that they might as well keep him around and see if he can get healthy? What does dead money mean? "dead money" for NFL cap purposes is money counted against the salary cap for players who are no longer on your team (they were cut prior to the end of their contract, but were paid large bonuses in the early years that must still go against some cap year, depending on when the cut is made. example if cut made before june 1st dead money counts for 2012. if made after june 1st dead money can be pushed into 2013). lets take two examples assuming the salary cap information in the link is correct. if the bills released shawn merriman today, he would still count $500,000 of cap towards our 2012 season (actually not alot). if the bills cut QB Ryan Fitzpatrick today, the bills would still have to count $13,000,000 towards the cap (a high number). as you can see from that link the bills have $8.6 million of dead money for 2012 (mostly from Maybin & Lee Evans). So, with the salary cap set at $120 mil for 2012, the bills must count/deduct $8.6 mil of dead money from that $120 mil leaving them with $111.4 mil to spend. this is where the bills are cheap crowd will say the spending floor is only $108 mil so they really have $99.4 mil to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Why would you want Merriman, Shawne to explain the NFL salary cap to you? He is (was) a football player not a CPA. You really need to think about who you go to for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) dead money counts against the cap but has already been actually paid in past years. (signing bonus that is paid at once, but hits the cap as a split over time) That is a choice that the team makes whether to amortize the bonus over the length of the contract or pay it all up front in the signing year's cap number. The Bills as many other low budget teams take the hit all up front which always makes our cap number look like we are spending more than we really are. Edited February 17, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) That is a choice that the team makes whether to amortize the bonus over the length of the contract or pay it all up front in the signing year's cap number. The Bills as many other low budget teams take the hit all up front which always makes our cap number look like we are spending more than we really are. no matter the amount of bonus money upfront...the "cap" hit is exactly the same every year for the length of the contract, evenly divided....unless performance bonuses achieved raise the number or is ended sooner by cutting the player, which then creates "dead money". the "cash to cap" system (not to be confused with a new term "carry over cash")the bills employ is a "cash flow" system...whereby, the bills run a seperate set of books where they try NOT to spend more in cash (all bonuses and salaries) in any given year that would exceed the "cap" limit for that same year. that cash system does not trump or is lieu of the cap system...they still must follow all cap rules. Edited February 17, 2012 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Considering our current talent level at DE I don't see a reason to get rid of Merriman before camp unless he is injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Considering our current talent level at DE I don't see a reason to get rid of Merriman before camp unless he is injured. He is a LB not a DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Cut him to clear cap? Why? Would be prudent to keep him on and see if that preventative surgery he had last year did any good. If he still can't stay healthy and contribute, he'll be gone soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He is a LB not a DE. LB = Lia Bility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 He is a LB not a DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason423 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 As I understand it, could be wrong, the Bills use a cash to the cap system. Which I don't believe the linked website is using to determine the Bills cap numbers. I believe in that system any money paid out to the player will be applied to their cap. Merrimans contract according to rotoworld: http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3171/player?r=1 So $3M of his 2nd year base salary is guaranteed, so they're going to be paying him $3M this year regardless. Which in their system would be applied to their cap, so whether he is on the team or not that $3M is going to be hitting their cap. As I said, this is how I think they work things, I could be wrong. I had a source that told me the 3M guarantee is guaranteed for injury and cap purposes but not for skill. That was the assumption I worked on with the dead money on the site. If that is true then the Bills owe him nothing for when he is cut. If they do owe him money Id imagine they would never cut him. His roster bonus is due the first week of the league year so that is the timeframe. If he is still on the Bills roster the week of March 20th he is going to stay the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T master Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) I failed math at least once so it's all greek to this boy !!!! Besides these numbers are so high it makes my nose bleed !!! And then these folks on here say Ralphs cheap -------- s*** lets see them pony up that kind of cash & see who's cheap then !! It's way easy when your spending some one elses money to call them cheap !!!!! Edited February 18, 2012 by T master Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 no matter the amount of bonus money upfront...the "cap" hit is exactly the same every year for the length of the contract, evenly divided....unless performance bonuses achieved raise the number or is ended sooner by cutting the player, which then creates "dead money". the "cash to cap" system (not to be confused with a new term "carry over cash")the bills employ is a "cash flow" system...whereby, the bills run a seperate set of books where they try NOT to spend more in cash (all bonuses and salaries) in any given year that would exceed the "cap" limit for that same year. that cash system does not trump or is lieu of the cap system...they still must follow all cap rules. Which is why they tend to use roster bonuses instead if signing. Hits in one year on each set of books. Jacks our cap for that year but frees up space for the next 4. Over a 5 year period the same amount of dollars hit our books but we shouldn't get stuck with dead money like some teams when trying to make roster choices. If rub right it actually gives you a ton of financial flexibility and doesn't actually keep an extra penny in your pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 he will be lining up as a pass rushing DE and our only one on the team right now. uh oh! But hopefully for longer than training camp and pre season. If he is healthy he has some run stop skills too. he should be a wait and see imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 he will be lining up as a pass rushing DE and our only one on the team right now. uh oh! But hopefully for longer than training camp and pre season. If he is healthy he has some run stop skills too. he should be a wait and see imo. How do you know this? Did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 How do you know this? Did I miss something? A great deal, apparently. We're running a 4-3 this year. Our DC is Dave Wannstedt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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