beast34 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 any thoughts could it be kelsey williams darius carrington merriaman sheppard barnett looks like dwan edwards might be out of a job this might be a good thing for moats and bannon. with troupe and spencer johnson they are very deep at tackle If the first round pick is coples then carrington becomes the top back up In the end it was a smart move, when you are starring at williams and daruis they should be the focal part of your d. Plus I agree with Chan's points in regards to finding 4/3 players is easier . i agree somewhat. Once healthy likely starters -FA and draft LDE Kelsey LDT Darius RDT Williams RDE Merriman 6'4" 260Lbs 6'3" 340lbs 6'1" 301Lbs 6'4" 264Lbs Will Mike Sam Barnett Sheppard Moats 6'2" 230Lbs 6'2" 248 Lbs 6'2" 249 Lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I can't believe that I'm the only one pissed off by this comment: We want to utilize our personnel to the best and we feel like this will allow us to do that What was different 2 years ago when they switched to the 3-4? Our personnel were better suited for a 4-3 at that time but they had to switch to a 3-4. What a waste of 2 seasons on the defensive side of the ball. He should have made this comment 2 years ago and left the alignment alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed? PTR This was mostly from people who conflated the base 4-3 scheme with the ineffective Cover 2 that Jauron ran quite ineffectively. The abject failure of the 3-4 experiment notwithstanding, I embrace this news. The Bills simply didn't have the pass rushing LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 This was mostly from people who conflated the base 4-3 scheme with the ineffective Cover 2 that Jauron ran quite ineffectively. The abject failure of the 3-4 experiment notwithstanding, I embrace this news. The Bills simply didn't have the pass rushing LBs. That and this years draft class apparently doesn't have the stud 3-4 outside linebackers either. A change mostly out of necessity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That and this years draft class apparently doesn't have the stud 3-4 outside linebackers either. A change mostly out of necessity? I never really study the draft in-depth, so I'll take your word for it. A bigger reason though, I'm sure, is that Wannstedt's specialty is the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I've talked about good teams being opportunistic. 2 years ago we didn't have dareus or DW. 2 years ago we didn't know we were going to miss some key 34 holes getting filled. The longterm still might work that way. A big 43 is kind of the middle ground between Tampa 2 and a standard 34. If a great coach or player hits us and steers us towards 34 I say go for it. In the mean time talent is driving us towards a big 43 look. We got the opportunity to add a great inside player, and resign Williams while adding a good 43 coach our HC trusts... Take advantage of those opportunies. Edited January 31, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Other than the interior of our dline being good. Both Dareus/Williams should excell in a 4-3 defense. We still need dends and a we still need olb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanCity Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not me man - gonna call "I told you so" on that one - sorry! At the time I believe I said "don't be the last team to go with the 'popular' system - be the first team to catch the next wave", and for precisely the reason Gailey is hinting at: If more teams are going 3-4 you have more teams to compete with for the same types of players from a fixed talent pool. There are like 3 or 4 legitimate defensive styles out there - the smart play is to use which ever one is the least popular. Maybe that's part of why the Pats* switched to 4-3. Sadly, I fear the Bills may be a little late on this wave too. I like this school of thought. I was considering this when examining the FA list and the upcoming draft. With most every team focusing on 3-4, why not put together the best group of defenders suited to the 4-3? The demand is going to be lower, but the quality will be superior. Logic: not a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ha! That implies this front office has a plan. They don't. As they made clear today. Nix is impotent and unable (or unwilling) to make the changes necessary to elevate this team. Year 3 of a rebuild and they're starting over on a SCHEME level. That's not a bad thing, it's a disaster. This franchise was a joke before. It's a goddamn trainwreck after today. No more Kelsay running around out in space, stumbling around! This was mostly from people who conflated the base 4-3 scheme with the ineffective Cover 2 that Jauron ran quite ineffectively. The abject failure of the 3-4 experiment notwithstanding, I embrace this news. The Bills simply didn't have the pass rushing LBs. ... what HE said. I give credit to Gailey, Wannstedt and Nix for adjusting to the personnel they got and what's out there in the draft and free agency. I thought the 3-4 was the way to go. It wasn't. Glad they stopped doing what they weren't doing well. Yeah, the problem is, it took them 2 years to finally figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ha! That implies this front office has a plan. They don't. As they made clear today. Nix is impotent and unable (or unwilling) to make the changes necessary to elevate this team. Year 3 of a rebuild and they're starting over on a SCHEME level. That's not a bad thing, it's a disaster. This franchise was a joke before. It's a goddamn trainwreck after today. Look on the bright side, at least the draft picks(and the few free agents) they spent on 3-4 personnel haven't panned out very well. So who is made obsolete now? Dwan Edwards? Torrel Troup? Alex Carrington? Kelvin Shepard? Kellen Heard? Danny Batten? Arthur Moats? Merriman was a washout anyway but this probably clarifies that as well. Some of those guys will stay and have to play a lot of snaps, but usually you can go into a season looking for some breakout performers and it's hard to have any confidence in those guys finding their stride as oversized sideline-to-sideline LB's and one gap, pass rushing DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think we will look for DE more than OLB. The question is do we cut Merriman or switch him to DE? Switch him... I got him at LE in Madden n I get a sack guaranteed every game... Madden never lies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So who is made obsolete now? Dwan Edwards? Torrel Troup? Alex Carrington? Kelvin Shepard? Kellen Heard? Danny Batten? Arthur Moats? Well, in his interview Chan stated the only thing he could say for certain was that Sheppard was going to be the starting MLB. Which means Barnett will slide over to OLB (he played a fair amount of OLB toward the second half of last season). So you can definitely pencil in: DL: ?????, Williams, Dareus, Kelsey LB: Barnett, Sheppard, ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuSeYiN1978 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 In case you didn't get the memo, I made this announcement as soon as Wanny was promoted. How does it affect things? A lot. 1) Bills have at least 3 LBS that should be able to play MLB. They have one that might be able to play OLB... and then a huge dropoff. No one has ever played OLB in a 43 on the current roster. So, there needs to be at least 2-3 43 OLBs brought in. No ands, ifs, or buts. 2) All of the Bills Defensive lineman (except Kelsay)(not counting the two street FAs the Bills pickeup toward the end of the season) are all 300 and above. Well, DEs in the 43 usually weigh in anywhere from 240 lbs. to 275 lbs. Jenny Craig ain't running the strength and conditioning program and neither is nutrisystem. So, do the math... a few of them will be sent packing and new and competent ones brought in. In other words, one step forward 2 steps backwards. I aint saying the Bills won't improve significantly on defense. But by the time that happens will the Bills still be in Buffalo? Your words sound like they're coming out the wrong hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thud Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ha! That implies this front office has a plan. They don't. As they made clear today. Nix is impotent and unable (or unwilling) to make the changes necessary to elevate this team. Year 3 of a rebuild and they're starting over on a SCHEME level. That's not a bad thing, it's a disaster. This franchise was a joke before. It's a goddamn trainwreck after today. Come on dude take a hike then. This is what we needed all along small tweaks and we will be doing much better. Our strengths are 4-3 anyways with our Williams\ Dareus. Hate to see what happens when the toast gets burned at your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Great news!! Im glad it only took them a year to figure out they don't have the personel for a decent 3/4. Kyle Williams and Dareus are the anchors on defense and they need to utilize them accordingly. Having Dareus play LDE was just idiotic. But nonetheless great news. They now just need to find a good every down end, then make merriman a situational pass rushing end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamOnDan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I would bet that Merriman if healthy will be the starting RDE with Kelsay the starting LDE. I know it is a stretch but If Merriman, Williams, Dareus, and Kelsay all stay healthy- It could be a pretty decent front 4. Now for me the real questions are: Is Dwan Edwards worth keeping as a penetrating 2 gap DT? Answer: Yes, unless they feel that Carrington is better fit at DT than DE. Next question is Carrington a DE or DT? Answer: I believe he has a good enough burst to play DE and with the fact that Buffalo insisted on lining him up as OLB, I would say he is now looked at as a DE, also Edwards and Carrington give the line a nice look in a BIG front or goaline at DE. Next Question I have is will Spencer Johnson be worth keeping? Answer: Yes, Until they have the luxury of drafting another DT which I don't believe will happen this year, We are looking at Williams, Dareus, Edwards, Johnson, and Troupe at DT. It should be a very strong point of this team, perhaps the best rotation in the league, Heard may beat one of those guys out. Next question I raise is how we stack up at 4-3 DE as a whole? Well Merriman could be the answer, and I have a feeling he will be a great RDE if he recovers. Kelsay is aging and at best is a great swing backup DE that can play both sides, more than likely for lack of a better option he will be starting again and I see that as a weak spot although if it was our weakest spot that is ok. Carrington ideally would progress into the starting LDE role this season and I really hope he does. I say he does by the end of the season, and this will be Kelsays last year here. I see Moats as a tweener but he lands on the roster as a pass rush specialist at DE. Batten is done, As of now he looks like the 5th DE but there will def be someone brought in to compete for a starting position and/or backup injury prone Merriman. On to the LB position. Well, Chan said Shep is the Mike so that is that. Barnett is too good to sit and he fits on either side in a 4-3. Originally, I thought he is weak side, but either or is fine with Barnett. He will be an every down player for sure. Expect Sheppard to really take a jump and be a force in the middle, White will back him up and he fits the bill as a middle backer in 4-3, although I could see bringing Morrison back as I feel he is better suited to play 4-3 mike. Buddy will Need to bring in at least 3 OLB and that is mandatory. I would not bring back Scott. He is not the solution. It won't be hard or expensive to get 1 4-3 OLB to start in free agency. Who? I don't have any idea. But It doesn't seem hard to figure out that the biggest need no matter what defense we ran was going to be OLB. So, Now we don't need to get the best pash rushing OLB anymore and that is a good thing because there seems to be too much competition out there for those guys and the top guys are going to cost a fortune, where the top 4-3 LB will be reasonable. It puts us more in the game come Free Agency. Now If Merriman is not going to be on the team, DE is just as big a need as OLB, and with Merrimans history, a lot of you will feel justified in saying that DE is the biggest need now, and I agree with that stance, but the optimistic thing to do is hope he recovers cause he is good when healthy. The secondary doesn't change but I do feel that we have a great secondary for a 4-3 alignment. Byrd and Wilson have very good ball skills and are sure enough tacklers to play any type of defense but it is worth noting that Byrd had his most impressive season in a 4-3. I personally think Wilson is very Good and Searcy will be a great backup to both of them. Williams and Florence form a tough physical duo at CB next year and Rogers and McKelvin will be fine at nickel and dime. With the Lineup looking like Florence, Byrd, Wilson, and Williams- they could be one of the largest most physical secondaries in the league as well. McGee is done, he has no bonus and costs 6 million per season. He is done. There will be at least 1 CB and 1 Safety drafted along with 2 OLB, and at least 1 DE. They will have at least 10 selections in the draft this year with the comp pick(s) from losing Poz and Whitner. We already have 9 due to baltimore trading us a 4th and Seattle trading a conditional 6th or 5th. So in my opinion, it is a wise decision to switch to a 4-3 based on who is on the team. Merriman fits the bill just fine at RDE, our DT rotation will be amazing, Kelsay is at least adequate if Carrington doesn't progress to start, & they need another guy drafted high(rd 1-3) to compete and insure against another Merriman injury. The pressure generated from Dareus and Williams should be enough to free up our DE to be in one on one scenarios. OLB is a mess, but now at least it is affordable and likely that we can get a good starter with experience to come in right away and make an impact. I expect a couple mid rd picks to add to the LB core, and most likely they will be OLB. The secondary is in great shape and will benefit from the draft as usual. I expect a early to mid rd pick(2-4) will be made on CB, and a late rd selection of a safety with speed and ball skills will be made as well. For some reason, safety is a position that lasts in the NFL draft. The defense should improve vastly! All they need to do is continue to draft well and add a starting OLB through free agency... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Great move for Kelsay and Carrington. Troup probably still gets a chance to compete for a DT spot especially if Kyle Williams health is not known. I just can't see Shepard being a MLB in the 4-3. He isn't big enough. He and Ray Lewis are listed basically the same size 6'1-2" and 250. Lewis looks at least 20 if not 25 lbs bigger. Moats/Batten are as good as gone. Huge holes at OLB, back up MLB, and back up DE's. They will need to draft/add in FA no less than four front seven players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I can't believe that I'm the only one pissed off by this comment: What was different 2 years ago when they switched to the 3-4? Our personnel were better suited for a 4-3 at that time but they had to switch to a 3-4. What a waste of 2 seasons on the defensive side of the ball. He should have made this comment 2 years ago and left the alignment alone. You're not the only one pissed off. A lot of people on this board have said from day one that Nix and Chan were nothing but the same ol' same ol' at OBD -- and that statement proves it. It's an absolute joke the way this franchise is run. An absolute shame too. I cannot believe how many people on here are DEFENDING this ... they're so blinded by trees they're forgetting to see the forest. We deserve the ****ty team that is put out on the field week in and week out for over a DECADE. Come on dude take a hike then. This is what we needed all along small tweaks and we will be doing much better. Our strengths are 4-3 anyways with our Williams\ Dareus. Hate to see what happens when the toast gets burned at your house. That statement is everything that is wrong with the Buffalo Bills as a franchise and a fan base. ... And if the toast was burning for 12 years without anyone saying "hey, your toast is burning" I'd be pretty pissed off. Edited January 31, 2012 by tgreg99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I for one like the switch, we have the front line solidified with rotational backups, and barnett, shep, and dont count out batten/moats. Do we have some holes to fill, yeah of course, but atleast now guys like troup and carrington will be back to their native positions. This is esp great for carrington, Im sure hes thrilled. As far as FA and thet draft goes, Id make a big push for williams or C Campbell to replace kelsay opposite carrington, maybe look for some lbs. Draft wise, its a great time to go talent, talent talent, and trade back if the offer is right. No need to get crazy about filling certain positions in rd 1-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I for one like the switch, we have the front line solidified with rotational backups, and barnett, shep, and dont count out batten/moats. Do we have some holes to fill, yeah of course, but atleast now guys like troup and carrington will be back to their native positions. This is esp great for carrington, Im sure hes thrilled. As far as FA and thet draft goes, Id make a big push for williams or C Campbell to replace kelsay opposite carrington, maybe look for some lbs. Draft wise, its a great time to go talent, talent talent, and trade back if the offer is right. No need to get crazy about filling certain positions in rd 1-3 Stop thinking about what the change means for 2012 ... think about what it SAYS about the way the team has been run since Nix and Chan "took over". Does it REALLY say, "Nix is a good guy, he admits when he's wrong and will do what's right to change it even if it means admitting a mistake"? Or does it say, "it took us TWO YEARS to realize something everyone's been saying since we got here"? And if it's the later, doesn't that PISS YOU OFF? This organization is incapable of winning -- it doesn't matter what product they put on the field. They are flawed at a very fundamental level at the front office level. It's either due to complete and total incompetence by Nix (a guy who thus far has done NOTHING to elevate the overall talent level on the roster in 2 years of running the team -- instead he's just moved the pieces around) or it's due to Ralph not allowing Nix and company the control they need. It's one or the other ... And the Bills aren't going to start winning until that flaw is fixed. 12 years of utter **** on the field is enough proof for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts