Current Roster better for a 4-3 or 3-4?

[NoSaint]

I like a 43 over, 34 yes it gives one less LB for coverage but it gives you one more pass rusher & if you get pressure it makes up it

I think we should play the 43 & totally drop the 34, you can go out & find good pass rusher in the mid to late rounds of the draft LB is a different story

Well, the obvious answer being you can always blitz a lb and you don't know where that extra pressure will be in a 34, without sacrificing coverage. It's a more versatile scheme.

 

I think for a 34 they have 3 Dlinemen and 2 ILBs, their main need is at both OLB spots. Need 2, maybe 3 players (Depending on your opinion of Edwards/Carrington/Troup).

 

I think for a 43 they have 2 Dlinemen (regardless of Kelsay's play he's getting old and will need a replacement soon) and 1 MLB (Barnett) and no OLBs. Likely need 4 players.

 

Therefore I think they're closer to being at least average at all 7 "front 7" spots in a 34.

 

 

I don't know what his responsibilities are, but the defense has been terrible, and he has a hand in it. I wouldn't blame them for not wanting to give him more responsilibity and wouldn't mind if he's also replaced.

 

That's roughly my assessment. The same people complaining about Kelsay at OLB will be griping about carrington or Edwards at end. I think we are one player closer to a good 34 but have the elite difference maker for either missing. If we had fhe merriman of preseason, we aren't having this talk at all.

 

Last - chan and buddy chose the 34 and then installed Edwards which I think is an important difference seemingly lost on some people. It's not like they said "let's hire George- what do you think he'd run? Let's let him figure that out on his own" It seems they want a 34 at the top, and are working to get there. Id expect another coach to fit that vision if hes replaced. Switching from the cover2 is about as tough a transition as possible.

[Chris in Syracuse]

I believe that Chan basically tells Edwards we will get killed if we run a 34 without the players. We have to teach them the 34 because we will eventually use it full time. In the meanwhile we have enough players to run a poor mans 43 so lets do that quite a bit just to give us a chance.We have to sprinkle in the 34 as well. We can't really blitz too much because our players are NOT good enough to get through to the qb and our very weak and heavily injured secondary are NOT to be trusted with avoiding giving up the big play. And by the way most of your good players have to play out of their natural position because we have no depth. Teams that hire hot shot DC's are usually successful because the owner and GM are willing to make the commitment to give them what they need to succeed. Edwards does not have that clout. He basically has to turn tap water into rainbows with no sunlight. Good luck with that.

 

 

I wouldn't say he's a scape goat necessarily. But who's idea do you think it was to move Kelsay and Johnson to OLB? Who's idea was it to go 34 43 hybrid? Who's idea is it not blitz when we obviously can't bring pressure on the QB and our DBs can't cover forever? We have some for sure NFL talent on the defense like Byrd, Wilson, Florence, Barnett, Dareus, Kelsay (at DE). Williams and Sheppard seem to be decent and Searcy and Rogers are doing well also. I also believe Leodis can be a player when there is some pass rush and QB can't sit back and take his time to put in the perfect throw. Why are we this bad? Is it on the players? Somewhat probably.

 

When I see other teams go from one of the worst Ds to top half after hiring a decent DC like Houston and Green Bay and Miami and the 49ers did, it leads me to believe it's not only on the players but in large part to their fearless leader.

 

Coach Gailey says the same thing. He says we have good players but it ain't working.

 

I'm hoping Edwards is told to clean out his locker on 1/2/2012.

[jjmac]

Finally, some people who agree with me. I have a hard time understanding how we can fault Edwards when we have so many players on IR or have missed a significant number of games. We do need a significant upgrade in talent, which I believe will happen when our injured players return, through the draft, and maybe a FA or two.

[Gray Beard]

Does anyone know the truth about Wannstedt making the calls in the Miami game? The defense was slightly better than usual in that game, other than not being able to wrap up Bush as he ran through several tackles.

 

I feel that some of the fundamentals are lacking, and that could be more due to poor position coaches. Nobody wraps up low, which is why Bush was able to get through what seemed like five or six guys all at the same time. The DBs don't jam the receivers at the line, and there are several other observations that have been made by people on this board throughout the season.

 

The lack of imagination with almost no disguised blitz packages, along with 300 pound guys in pass coverage are a couple of other aspects of the defense that don't add up. Edwards has certainly been dealt a poor hand, and I don't think he is playing it very well.

 

I don't see humiliating Edwards as a good answer. There was talk of him going back to a college job for next season. I hope he is able to find a graceful way out. Buffalo doesn't need to get a reputation for treating coaches with a lack of respect (although it may be too late for that).

[Best Player Available]

you are not wrong. I feel like this is the offseason they finally get all the pieces in place. I can not imagine tha Buddy goes into next season with kelsy and johnson on the roster at olb's.

I can't believe we go into next season with kelsay on the roster.

 

just sayin

[Chris in Syracuse]

Gailey said that no changes had been made with play calling. I really don't blame the coaching. The players all say that the calls are right. They just can't execute because they are hurt and or playing out of their natural position. You can disguise a blitz anyway you want but if you can't beat the man in front of you at the POA no exotic package is going to make up for that. I am sure there are some things Edwards could do to better but to place the blame on his shoulders and read post after post demanding his firing seems absurd.

 

Does anyone know the truth about Wannstedt making the calls in the Miami game? The defense was slightly better than usual in that game, other than not being able to wrap up Bush as he ran through several tackles.

 

I feel that some of the fundamentals are lacking, and that could be more due to poor position coaches. Nobody wraps up low, which is why Bush was able to get through what seemed like five or six guys all at the same time. The DBs don't jam the receivers at the line, and there are several other observations that have been made by people on this board throughout the season.

 

The lack of imagination with almost no disguised blitz packages, along with 300 pound guys in pass coverage are a couple of other aspects of the defense that don't add up. Edwards has certainly been dealt a poor hand, and I don't think he is playing it very well.

 

I don't see humiliating Edwards as a good answer. There was talk of him going back to a college job for next season. I hope he is able to find a graceful way out. Buffalo doesn't need to get a reputation for treating coaches with a lack of respect (although it may be too late for that).

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

How about lack of adjustments during the game? Isn't that on the DC? Poor fundamentals? Not saying it's all on him, but if someone has to go, Edwards is the weakest link, especially with Wanny standing in the wings.

 

BTW, I will quickly agree that lack of talent is the prime suspect, and this goes on the FO for building on the cheap.

[dave mcbride]

Does anyone know the truth about Wannstedt making the calls in the Miami game? The defense was slightly better than usual in that game, other than not being able to wrap up Bush as he ran through several tackles.

 

I feel that some of the fundamentals are lacking, and that could be more due to poor position coaches. Nobody wraps up low, which is why Bush was able to get through what seemed like five or six guys all at the same time. The DBs don't jam the receivers at the line, and there are several other observations that have been made by people on this board throughout the season.

 

The lack of imagination with almost no disguised blitz packages, along with 300 pound guys in pass coverage are a couple of other aspects of the defense that don't add up. Edwards has certainly been dealt a poor hand, and I don't think he is playing it very well.

 

I don't see humiliating Edwards as a good answer. There was talk of him going back to a college job for next season. I hope he is able to find a graceful way out. Buffalo doesn't need to get a reputation for treating coaches with a lack of respect (although it may be too late for that).

Was the defense in the miami game really better? They gave up 258 yards rushing. On a related topic, Bryan Scott was a disaster in that game. He gave up two huge passing plays on that first drive - the first via an ill-timed decision to go for an INT, the second because he bit on play action and let Fasano get wide open in the end zone. A lot of people have criticized Stevie Johnsom without mentioning Scott despite the fact that Scott's miscues were far more egregious.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Was the defense in the miami game really better? They gave up 258 yards rushing. On a related topic, Bryan Scott was a disaster in that game. He gave up two huge passing plays on that first drive - the first via an ill-timed decision to go for an INT, the second because he bit on play action and let Fasano get wide open in the end zone. A lot of people have criticized Stevie Johnsom without mentioning Scott despite the fact that Scott's miscues were far more egregious.

 

Agreed--Scott was noticeably horrendous.

 

Even though he showed flashes against the Chargers, he was also abused many times during that game.

 

I actually think he's an okay player, but just constantly asked to do more than his skill set allows.

[Gray Beard]

Was the defense in the miami game really better? They gave up 258 yards rushing. On a related topic, Bryan Scott was a disaster in that game. He gave up two huge passing plays on that first drive - the first via an ill-timed decision to go for an INT, the second because he bit on play action and let Fasano get wide open in the end zone. A lot of people have criticized Stevie Johnsom without mentioning Scott despite the fact that Scott's miscues were far more egregious.

The thing that stuck in my mind was the Reggie Bush would run into a pile of five or six guys, and look like he was stopped with almost no gain. All of a sudden he would emerge from the other side and keep going. ??? He is not a power running back, he should be brought down in a pile, not emerge from the other side. This happened at least three times.

 

It seemed as though the defense was in the right position to make the stop, but they couldn't wrap up. Does coaching put them in position, but lack of ability prevent them from wrapping up?

 

I guess it seemed as though the Dolphins punted more than other teams in recent games, which makes it seem as though the defense must have played better. Maybe it is because the Dolphins really aren't that good.

 

I agree about Scott. He is a high motor guy who plays with a lot of heart (I chose those words because many people on this board feel as though a player described that way is doomed, but in his case I think it is actually appropriate).

[1B4IDie]

Let's say you go out for dinner and you order a Lobster.

 

And then they bring you a bunch of California Rolls and sushi mushed up into the shape of a Lobster.

 

When you ask the waiter, "what is this?"

 

The waiter responds, "It's a Lobster"

 

You respond "It is not a Lobster, it is sushi in the shape of a Lobster. Sushi is good, but I didn't order Sushi. Who decided to put this seafood in the shape of a Lobster? They should be fired!"

 

Did George Edwards decide to put the defense in a 3-4? Did Gailey? Did Nix?

 

Who ever made the crap made that piss poor decision should have their decision making powers revoked.

 

If it is Edwards then yes he is to blame.

[KD in CA]

Let's say you go out for dinner and you order a Lobster.

 

And then they bring you a bunch of California Rolls and sushi mushed up into the shape of a Lobster.

 

When you ask the waiter, "what is this?"

 

The waiter responds, "It's a Lobster"

 

You respond "It is not a Lobster, it is sushi in the shape of a Lobster. Sushi is good, but I didn't order Sushi. Who decided to put this seafood in the shape of a Lobster? They should be fired!"

 

Did George Edwards decide to put the defense in a 3-4? Did Gailey? Did Nix?

 

Who ever made the crap made that piss poor decision should have their decision making powers revoked.

 

If it is Edwards then yes he is to blame.

 

 

You can only do so much when you don't actually have any lobster meat to serve. The Bills talent level has been more like pogie the past few years.

[Buffalo Beeeews]

I can't believe how everyone believes that firing our DC will miraculously make our defense so much improved.

The real problem lies within the attempt to abandon a semi successful Tampa 2 (with noted flaws in run defense)

to a pure 34. It is like trying to turn fat Jared (pre subway) into Arnold Schwartzeneggar (sp). It ain't happening overnight.

It could of happened sooner if we got rid of everyone that didn't fit and draft and pay good money for players that did. We decided to build through the draft and run our hybrid 34 43 joke of a defense where we don't have the players to be successful at either. No DC can succeed with this situation (not even Wade Phillips). Until we have a true NT and at least 1 good OLB (I still hold out hope for Merriman) and quality depth we will never be successful. I am not totally against letting Edwards go at seasons end but he will sadly be a martyr to a front office and owner that are willing to let the team go a few more years without winning in the hopes to rebuild a long term foundation for success.

 

Flame away!

Have you watched this defense. I mean, even when we were winning they were bad. You are correct, it isn't all Edwards fault. Nix and Ralph are also responsible for not bringing in viable talent (ala-Pass Rusher(s), Defensive Backs, etc.) But, good coaches know how to compensate when they don't have the talent. They design different blitz schemes, they try to make the opposing QB check off at the line by disguising things (when's the last time you seen a QB do that against the Bills, John Beck maybe?) I watch this defense very, very closely every week, and every week its the same, base defense. Its quite simple, Edwards needs to be fired because he is not good, period. He is the worst EVER!

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Finally, some people who agree with me. I have a hard time understanding how we can fault Edwards when we have so many players on IR or have missed a significant number of games. We do need a significant upgrade in talent, which I believe will happen when our injured players return, through the draft, and maybe a FA or two.

The defense was terrible before all the players went on IR, and that includes last season. Edwards thinks the word "pressure" means artificial respiration, because the Bills' defense needs it.

[Chris in Syracuse]

Let's say you go out for dinner and you order a Lobster.

 

And then they bring you a bunch of California Rolls and sushi mushed up into the shape of a Lobster.

 

When you ask the waiter, "what is this?"

 

The waiter responds, "It's a Lobster"

 

You respond "It is not a Lobster, it is sushi in the shape of a Lobster. Sushi is good, but I didn't order Sushi. Who decided to put this seafood in the shape of a Lobster? They should be fired!"

 

Did George Edwards decide to put the defense in a 3-4?

 

Who ever made the crap made that piss poor decision should have their decision making powers revoked.

 

 

 

 

If it is Edwards then yes he is to blame.

 

 

The 34 is all Chan Gailey and possibly Nix. I remember Gailey saying he wants to run a 34. Edwards was hired and told what to run.

I am very certain of this.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2011 by Chris in Syracuse

[jjmac]

The defense was terrible before all the players went on IR, and that includes last season. Edwards thinks the word "pressure" means artificial respiration, because the Bills' defense needs it.

 

 

My mother, who is quite the baker, told me that the quality of the finished product is directly proportional to the quality of the ingredients. Have we given Edwards quality ingredients? Let's take OLB, which appears to be seen by most as the biggest problem on defense. We have Chris Kelsay, barely adequate as a 4-3 DE, Shawne Merriman, on IR (again), and two former late-round picks that have been replaced by defensive lineman. So, if you have nobody who can play the position decently, how is that his fault?

[CodeMonkey]

Where does the Stache fit into this puzzle?

"Assistant HC" is a title to appease him. At camp at least, and I have to believe all season as well, he was all about the D.

Anyone who demands Edwards be fired should be wanting Stache out as well IMO.

Edited December 21, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[jjmac]

Where does the Stache fit into this puzzle?

"Assistant HC" is a title to appease him. At camp at least, and I have to believe all season as well, he was all about the D.

Anyone who demands Edwards be fired should be wanting Stache out as well IMO.

 

That does seem to be the great mystery-what does he actually do?

[Mr. WEO]

I can't believe how everyone believes that firing our DC will miraculously make our defense so much improved.

The real problem lies within the attempt to abandon a semi successful Tampa 2 (with noted flaws in run defense)

to a pure 34. It is like trying to turn fat Jared (pre subway) into Arnold Schwartzeneggar (sp). It ain't happening overnight.

It could of happened sooner if we got rid of everyone that didn't fit and draft and pay good money for players that did. We decided to build through the draft and run our hybrid 34 43 joke of a defense where we don't have the players to be successful at either. No DC can succeed with this situation (not even Wade Phillips). Until we have a true NT and at least 1 good OLB (I still hold out hope for Merriman) and quality depth we will never be successful. I am not totally against letting Edwards go at seasons end but he will sadly be a martyr to a front office and owner that are willing to let the team go a few more years without winning in the hopes to rebuild a long term foundation for success.

 

Flame away!

 

I disagree. Maybe Wade Phillips would not have made this a top defense with all the injuries but the point you are missing is that Phillips is a top DC in this league and has been for years. George Edwards is a nobody--a glorified position coach. You simply cannot make these two guys equivalent and then say, essentially, that NO DC could do anything with this roster. That's not a logical conclusion.

 

It is much easier for me to believe that a veteran, intelligent defensive coordinator could have gotten better performance out of these guys than Edwards has. Chan picked Edwards becuase he wouldn't challenge Gailey's command and Nix is too simple to have asked why on Earth he was picking a guy like Edwards to totally revamp the defense with an entirely different scheme.

[bmur66]

That does seem to be the great mystery-what does he actually do?

Isn't he the inside backers coach? Edwards is responsible for getting the most out of what he has to work with. Has he done that? I am not sure.