To those who are anti-Toronto

[BillnutinHouston]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

[Scrappy]

Kill Canada.

[8-8 Forever?]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

Well said, however the Bills share of the TV contract money will be equal or greater than the salary cap. Therefore, they just hand the TV money over to their players (who generate it in the first place) and cover coaching and other expenses out of their share of gate receipts, merchandise, box revenuee etc. Ralph's problem is he has wanted it both ways, he wants the TV money but has not spent it all on player salaries (close, but not all) in the past. The Bills problem is whoever buys the team will have a $800million nut to cover that Ralph does not have today. And that means taking the team to a much larger market where enough non-TV contract money can be made to make a financial return on a $800million investment. That is where Toronto (and Canada in general as a merchandise and TV market) comes in. You are right.

[akm0404]

Nobody is against regionalizing the franchise. Many other teams do this without selling their home games.

 

It is shameful for an organization to sell home field advantage, which is a literal competitive advantage, for cash money.

 

This is only one step removed from selling the opposing team a field goal each game for a million bucks cash. Traditionally, home field advantage is considered roughly a 3 point edge.

 

Selling competitive advantage for cash is gross.

[Metal Man]

The strategy is sound.

 

However I'd like to see verifiable numbers that show giving Toronto those games actually brought in a lot of Canadian Bills fans that had never come to games here before, or a dramatic spike in Bills gear sold in the Toronto area.

 

If those numbers aren't impressive then the competitive advantage they sold away wasn't worth it.

[papazoid]

The strategy is sound.

 

However I'd like to see verifiable numbers that show giving Toronto those games actually brought in a lot of Canadian Bills fans that had never come to games here before, or a dramatic spike in Bills gear sold in the Toronto area.

 

If those numbers aren't impressive then the competitive advantage they sold away wasn't worth it.

 

does this impress you ?

 

The Buffalo Bills say their annual excursions to Toronto are helping to grow their fan base in Southern Ontario.

 

Bills Chief Executive Officer Russ Brandon told a crowd of fans Monday that the team continues to see concrete positive results from the five-year, eight-game deal it signed with Rogers Communications in 2008.

 

"After three years of that experience, we've had a 44 percent increase in season-ticket holders from Southern Ontario to One Bills Drive," Brandon said. "That's been the key, how the fans come from there, back to Ralph Wilson Stadium, come to our community and keep our organization viable and strong. That is the key to that relationship."

 

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/128503-toronto-deal-paying-off-for-bills/page__p__2133922__fromsearch__1#entry2133922

[Frostbelt City]

I'm down with Toronto and helping to spread the fanbase...

 

As long as we are the Buffalo Bills and always play 7 of our home games in BUFFALO. Toronto can have 1 or 2 home games a year. No biggie if it helps the Bills stay here.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Frostbelt City

[Armchair GM]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

 

Answer 1.) Yes...I can honestly disagree! We don't need to regionalize this team by playing "home" games in a stadium 2 1/2 hours away from The Ralph! We are the closest NFL Franchise to our northern neighbors, and they have, in the past, displayed a willingness to travel to Orchard Park and route for their team...well, the real Buffalo Bills fans anyway...The only thing that this Toronto series has done is give a destination vaca to the fans of the teams we play...Seriously, haven't you noticed that most of the fans at these games aren't cheering for the Bills?

 

Answer 2.) This wouldn't even be a relevant question is there were never a "Toronto series." YES! We have a "right" to the Bills FOREVER! There are one of the founding fathers of this league that is steeped in tradition with the most loyal fan base in the country. The NFL without the Buffalo Bills becomes one prong short of a fork.

 

Answer 3.) The most proven business strategy for generations..REINVESTMENT into your "product." When you reach a level of wealth, as Mr. Wilson has, there is no need to make money hand over fist year in and year out. The coin he has banked works for him and turns 7 figure profits. Reinvest into your team and give the fans what they deserve...the BEST POSSIBLE PRODUCT! Winning games & championships equates to regionalization!

[Mr. WEO]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

As others have said--no one is against regionalizing the team. The games in Toronto have been a PR embarrassment on gmae day for the Bills--by most accounts other than those of Brandon and Wilson.

 

Whatg legitimate business strategy would I propose? Hmm, if the goal of the business is to win games, I would focus my attention and money on hiring a competent staff who can produce wins--which Ralph is no longer capable of doing.

 

Win games and people will be coming from all over WNY (and sure, Ontario if you like) to fill your stadium. it's not a difficult concept.

 

Nobody is against regionalizing the franchise. Many other teams do this without selling their home games.

 

All other teams do it without selling out like the Bills have.

 

does this impress you ?

The Buffalo Bills say their annual excursions to Toronto are helping to grow their fan base in Southern Ontario.

 

Bills Chief Executive Officer Russ Brandon told a crowd of fans Monday that the team continues to see concrete positive results from the five-year, eight-game deal it signed with Rogers Communications in 2008.

 

"After three years of that experience, we've had a 44 percent increase in season-ticket holders from Southern Ontario to One Bills Drive," Brandon said. "That's been the key, how the fans come from there, back to Ralph Wilson Stadium, come to our community and keep our organization viable and strong. That is the key to that relationship."

 

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/128503-toronto-deal-paying-off-for-bills/page__p__2133922__fromsearch__1#entry2133922

Not this again. The Bills aren't selling out like they used to and their season ticket total plummetted by 20% in a single year, despite a few thousand Candadians signing up.

 

It's not working.

[UticaBill]

I'd rather see a new stadium be built on the north side of the city that make access easier for both Canadians and Rochester (and east) travelers. The current location needlessly add 45+mins drive for both those regions. Somewhere closer to the I-90 Tollbooths would be optimal....

 

If we want a regional strategy then we need a regional location for the stadium, not moving home games to alternate sites. There is no business sense in the Toronto move unless it was say a Thanksgiving day game or something special like that. NFL networks game are NOT special and are in fact the WORST possible venue IMHO.

[CodeMonkey]

Nobody is against regionalizing the franchise. Many other teams do this without selling their home games.

 

It is shameful for an organization to sell home field advantage, which is a literal competitive advantage, for cash money.

 

This is only one step removed from selling the opposing team a field goal each game for a million bucks cash. Traditionally, home field advantage is considered roughly a 3 point edge.

 

Selling competitive advantage for cash is gross.

You are making a common mistake. To you football is a passion. To the NFL and the players it is a business first and foremost. All you need do is look at the obscene amounts of cash involved and the current lockout swordfight between players and owners to see that. Of course Mr. Wilson would sell competitive advantage for cash. It is not gross, it is good profit maximizing business decision. And in his defense, I am pretty confident that Mr. Wilson thought the atmosphere in Toronto would be a strong Bills backing crowd when he first brokered the deal so he wouldn't be giving up as much of the homefield advantage as he did.

[Snorom]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

 

 

They are not Bills fans so I don't give a !@#$ about Toronto and their money.. That is ALL I CARE ABOUT... The Bills need eveyr home game they can get and Toronto is just a 9th away game.....

 

until the Bills raise ticket prices here to the point where people refuse to buy them the Toronto deal SUCKS

[bmur66]

1. It's the NFL. Not the IFL and I find it hard to believe the NFL even allowed it.

2. They are the Buffalo Bills and all home games should be played in BUFFALO, USA

3. The fans have been sold out

4. I ain't buying the regionalism crap. If you want to increase ticket sales then put a good product on the field.

5. Make the playoffs. I am sure a home playoff game pays big dividends.

6. Show us the baby. We have had enough and won't be played for fools any longer. Start winning or go ahead and move.

[JohnC]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

 

The 93 yr old onwer's business strategy is very simple: auctioning the team off to the highest bidder when he passes. Who wins the bid and where it is ultimately located is of no interest to him because he will not be around to hear the complaints. If the owner was fortifying the franchise so that it would be more stable for a designated local buyer that would be wonderful, but that is not what he has in mind.

Edited June 30, 2011 by JohnC

[Delete This Account]

once again, this topic brings out a polarized response, with too many unsteady assumptions to address.

these threads never work. they always bring out the same answers, no matter how well thought out the original post is. too many people have their minds made up on this and are unwilling to consider another point of view. hell, i don't even know why i'm posting here.

 

jw

[Jauronimo]

If we want a regional strategy then we need a regional location for the stadium, not moving home games to alternate sites. There is no business sense in the Toronto move unless it was say a Thanksgiving day game or something special like that. NFL networks game are NOT special and are in fact the WORST possible venue IMHO.

Giving away home games is tantamount to treason in my book, and thats on a GOOD day. But playing a game in Toronto on Thanksgiving? I can't think of a more offensive way to commemorate all those who gave their lives in the first French and Indian War. They fought for our independence from Canadian Indians and the tyrannical rule of Squanto, and you want remember their sacrifice by playing a football game on enemy soil? Disgraceful. They obviously don't teach history down there in Utica. I knew New Jersey public schools were bad but this is ridiculous.

 

In all seriousness, the Toronto experiment sounded OK on paper and did generate a lot of cash up front, which is always good. Three years later its obvious the experiment has failed to meet expectations, and the thought of moving even more games moving to Toronto seems absurd at this point. I wouldn't have as much of an issue with the Toronto games if they could match the excitement of other big time events like a wake or a briss. For a city which is supposedly trying out for an NFL franchise I expected a lot more public support.

[Homey D. Clown]

Not asking anyone to LIKE sharing our Bills with Toronto, but try to think with your head and not with your heart, just for a minute, and answer these questions:

 

Can you honestly say you disagree with a business strategy that calls for regionalizing the franchise?

 

Who are we to say "no" to regionalizing yet demand a payroll that rivals the big NFL markets? Do you really think you can have it both ways? Do we have a "right" to the Bills forever?

 

Say YOU buy the Bills. What legitimate BUSINESS strategy for the franchise will you pursue that keeps the team in WNY long term, and does NOT include regionalizing?

 

Discuss.

 

 

I am all for regionalizing the team, but unless you realize the actual population of the WNY area, you'd understand this is not a small farm town, but a moderately sized city with proximity to several large markets, such as Toronto. The city has supported the team with season ticket sales that exceeded any other era in the teams history despite a weakened local economy. Teams share revenue on several different levels, and the location of the team is almost a non issue.

 

The WNY area does lack a strong corporate presence, but playing a game or 2 in another city doesn't fix anything that getting partnerships from Toronto based business couldn't fix. How about selling some luxury suites and advertising or naming rights, instead of moving games away from the city? To me that's been the biggest black eye and flop than any other move in team history. It's simply dumb, and an easy cash grab, but it takes effort to actually sell things, and what could have been done was sell the idea of sponsoring the team in a great, historic and gothic old city where you could spend a weekend catching a game while benefiting from getting some national advertising. Funny how that didn't happen, but seems so logical to do.

 

This team operates in a stadium maintained by the county, is paid for, and has low operating costs with plenty of shared NFL money to spend each year. The fact that Ralph Wilson has been crying poverty for 40 years has really skewed the reality that this team is more than capable of operating very well right where it is.

 

I am all for regionalizing the teams fan base, just not playing games all over the place, that dilutes the team's identity. They are the Buffalo Bills, and there's nothing wrong with selling your product to other nearby cities. Ralph Wilson makes a truck-load of money every year, and it's very hard to think the team needs to play elsewhere to be profitable when they already are now.

[SouthernMan]

playing "home" games in a stadium 2 1/2 hours away

 

 

2½ hours?

Either somebody is driving very slow or they're taking at detour to the ballet.

[Mr. WEO]

once again, this topic brings out a polarized response, with too many unsteady assumptions to address.

these threads never work. they always bring out the same answers, no matter how well thought out the original post is. too many people have their minds made up on this and are unwilling to consider another point of view. hell, i don't even know why i'm posting here.

 

jw

Isn't that the point? The original post (which wasn't very original or timely) represents one 'pole'.

 

I think everyone responding has considered the "[other] point of view" on this topic and has picked a side. That's how it works.

[Zulu Cthulhu]

Buffalo already IS a regional team. They're the "Buffalo" Bills in name only. Patrons to RWS come from all over western and central NY and southern Ontario. I meet and speak with a different handful of Canadians every game I go to, and I've been to every game for the past 5 seasons.

 

The dip in season ticket sales isn't due to a failure to regionalize the team into Ontario. The dip is due to: 1) the overall economic downswing, and 2) more and more ticket-buying fans getting fed up with the ongoing piss poor team getting thrown out there year after year.

 

If the Bills want to get season ticket sales back up into the 55-60,000 range, they need only do 1 thing - stop sucking and make the playoffs. You'll see people from Buffalo, Roc, NF, St Catharines and everywhere in between buy tickets.