51 years without picking a QB first

[BADOLBILZ]

Offer some examples. Who would you have taken this year at #3? Gabbert? Locker?

 

Who would you have taken last year at #9? Tebow? Clausen?

 

2009 @ 11? No first round QBs after Sanchez @ 5.

 

2008 we picked 11, Flacco went 18 to Baltimore. Would you have taken a small school QB with the #11 pick without the aid of hindsight?

 

2007 we took Lynch at 12. Quinn went at 22. Would you prefer that pick? Kolb went 36, Beck 40. Prefer one of them at 12?

 

2006 we took Whitner. Leinart went a couple picks later, Cutler next. You might want Cutler...not me then, not me now.

 

2005 our first pick was Roscoe #55. Charlie Frye was the first QB taken after that selection at 67.

 

2004 we took Evansat 13, the next QB chosen was Losman. Was there another QB who should have been drafted ahead of Losman? Schaub is the next QB drafted, but not until pick 90. Should the Bills have picked him at 13?

 

2003 we took Willis at 23, Dave Ragone is the first QB I see after that pick. He was taken at 88.

 

2002 we took Williams at 4, Patrick Ramsey was taken at pick 32. Would he have made sense at 4?

 

In 2001 we had pick 21. Brees went at pick 33. That's a no brainer today. Was it then?

 

 

That's 11 examples and I see one hindsight pick (Brees) and 1 that I'm sure many would want (Cutler). What your asking for says easy, does hard.

 

Keep going, you have 40 more drafts to sift thru.

 

I'm talking about 51 years Beerball. The title of the thread wasn't "10 years and counting".

 

But let's go back to my other premise, which is that the Bills could have taken a QB with their first pick in each of the last 7 years and be no worse off. So, by your estimation the Bills could have had Flacco, Cutler, Schaub and Kolb and still have about the same team otherwise but you wouldn't go for that?

 

Here is the concept: the Bills keep repeating mistakes early in the draft because they take a shortsighted view to organization building. I'm not sure why I have to repeat this in every post.

[Beerball]

Keep going, you have 40 more drafts to sift thru.

 

I'm talking about 51 years Beerball. The title of the thread wasn't "10 years and counting".

 

But let's go back to my other premise, which is that the Bills could have taken a QB with their first pick in each of the last 7 years and be no worse off. So, by your estimation the Bills could have had Flacco, Cutler, Schaub and Kolb and still have about the same team otherwise but you wouldn't go for that?

 

Here is the concept: the Bills keep repeating mistakes early in the draft because they take a shortsighted view to organization building. I'm not sure why I have to repeat this in every post.

I did 20% of your research for you. You show me the Bills mistakes year by year.

[KD in CA]

I did 20% of your research for you. You show me the Bills mistakes year by year.

 

 

Oh no....he has his rock solid premise and he's sticking to it! No first pick QBs = losing franchise. And no examining the current needs of the team. It doesn't matter how bad the run defense is, addressing that need at the expense of keeping the no-first pick QB streak was a horrible, horrible decision.

 

 

Usually you have to go to PPP to see that level of simpleton logic.

[BADOLBILZ]

I did 20% of your research for you. You show me the Bills mistakes year by year.

 

Well, they clearly missed on Flacco, Cutler, Kolb, Schaub and Brees. Not sure why you couldn't do that yourself. Those guys are pretty good. Lotta' trade value too.

[ExWNYer]

As I stated at the outset of this thread, it is a mistake to view each draft as an isolated event. You are still talking about THIS year so we are arguing macro-management versus micro and you clearly don't see how the micro approach has been working out. I've said it about a dozen times in this thread, the Bills could have taken a QB with their first pick in the last 7 drafts and not be any worse off for it. Yet, in 51 years they haven't done that once. You are hung up on the idea that Dareus is the home run pick they've been waiting for. That remains to be seen. A year from now he could be the next Maybin and we couid be talking about the EIGHT years the Bills could have taken a QB first and not be worse off.

And hindsight is 20/20. Must be nice to look back and say "I told you so" without putting yourself out on a limb in advance. As has been stated numerous times by others in this thread, you've given no examples to support your position. Who did YOU want in those 51 years?? You're being argumentative for argument's sake and you clearly can't see the logic in anyone's position other than your own. Obviously, you're not relenting and just beating a dead horse now. Provide something other than hindsight GM-ing or move on...

[BADOLBILZ]

Oh no....he has his rock solid premise and he's sticking to it! No first pick QBs = losing franchise. And no examining the current needs of the team. It doesn't matter how bad the run defense is, addressing that need at the expense of keeping the no-first pick QB streak was a horrible, horrible decision.

 

 

Usually you have to go to PPP to see that level of simpleton logic.

 

 

 

Oh here we go, what's your explanation on why the Bills organization has been so anemic for the majority of the past 51 years? Please expound great critic.

 

And hindsight is 20/20. Must be nice to look back and say "I told you so" without putting yourself out on a limb in advance. As has been stated numerous times by others in this thread, you've given no examples to support your position. Who did YOU want in those 51 years?? You're being argumentative for argument's sake and you clearly can't see the logic in anyone's position other than your own. Obviously, you're not relenting and just beating a dead horse now. Provide something other than hindsight GM-ing or move on...

 

In the past 51 years I wanted a team owner who had an idea on how to build a winning organization. Every year, that's what I want. The data is just proof that he does not. You can work yourself up all you want in defense of Ralph, but his football team has been a stinker.

 

Furthermore, let me expound on why I don't relent to your arguments......I said from the start that I do not view the draft as an event, but a process. You guys want me to itemize each draft. I'm not going that route. It's a slippery slope filled with "that would have been a reach", "that's hindsight" etc. etc.

 

Edwards broke it down for you. They have drafted a combined 20 DB's and RB's with that same pick. What is wrong with this picture? According to you, nothing. It's just a series of random events that do not coincide with the Bills lack of success apparently.

 

I gave you a simple and powerful stat. 51 years, no QB's with their first selection.

Edited May 1, 2011 by Dick Drawn

[ExWNYer]

Oh here we go, what's your explanation on why the Bills organization has been so anemic for the majority of the past 51 years? Please expound great critic.

 

 

 

In the past 51 years I wanted a team owner who had an idea on how to build a winning organization. Every year, that's what I want. The data is just proof that he does not. You can work yourself up all you want in defense of Ralph, but his football team has been a stinker.

When the fug did I defend Ralph Wilson in this thread???! Way to try and deflect from your original premise because you can't support it. I tried being reasonable and respectful of your opinion but you just want to argue anything and everything whether salient to this thread or not...truly living up to the first part of your screen name, I see.

[BADOLBILZ]

When the fug did I defend Ralph Wilson in this thread???! Way to try and deflect from your original premise because you can't support it. I tried being reasonable and respectful of your opinion but you just want to argue anything and everything whether salient to this thread or not...truly living up to the first part of your screen name, I see.

 

Well why don't you explain the lack of success this franchise has had? Go ahead, I'm all ears.

[Beerball]

Well, they clearly missed on Flacco, Cutler, Kolb, Schaub and Brees. Not sure why you couldn't do that yourself. Those guys are pretty good. Lotta' trade value too.

So, regardless the number of picks between the Bills pick you want those? Schaub was picked 77 slots after Evans but the Bills FO should have picked him? Flacco 7 slots is within the realm. Kolb 14 picks later yet the Bills should have gobbled him up? Brees 12 picks? Leinart and Cutler you can keep.

 

Your logic is pick a QB come hell or high water. Don't consider needs. Don't consider how your scouting department has ranked players. Pick a QB.

 

Which one would you have taken this year at 3?

 

Well why don't you explain the lack of success this franchise has had? Go ahead, I'm all ears.

Depends on the era you're looking at. The current one? Lack of line play on both sides of the ball.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I would direct your attention to the 1983 draft where the Bills with their first selection selected Jim Kelly.

 

Nope. Kelly was their 2nd pick in the 1st round that year.

[Mr_Blizzard]

Your thesis has merit, but not for THIS particular draft. Dareus was the right choice.

+1. Even if our offense was scoring 28 pts a game, we aren't going anywhere withuot a strong "D". Dareus was the right choice at #3.

[ExWNYer]

So, regardless the number of picks between the Bills pick you want those? Schaub was picked 77 slots after Evans but the Bills FO should have picked him? Flacco 7 slots is within the realm. Kolb 14 picks later yet the Bills should have gobbled him up? Brees 12 picks? Leinart and Cutler you can keep.

 

Your logic is pick a QB come hell or high water. Don't consider needs. Don't consider how your scouting department has ranked players. Pick a QB.

 

Which one would you have taken this year at 3?

Beerball, logic has no place in this thread where the OP is concerned. He's proven that post after post after post and has no intention of giving you a straight answer as to who he would've taken at #3.

[Rob's House]

Well, they clearly missed on Flacco, Cutler, Kolb, Schaub and Brees. Not sure why you couldn't do that yourself. Those guys are pretty good. Lotta' trade value too.

Which one of those guys was available in a year we didn't already think we had our guy on the roster?

[nucci]

Well, they clearly missed on Flacco, Cutler, Kolb, Schaub and Brees. Not sure why you couldn't do that yourself. Those guys are pretty good. Lotta' trade value too.

Flacco and Cutler are Ok, nothing special but maybe better than Fitz. Kolb is a backup and Schaub and Brees, while very good, are not with the teams that drafted them. Both have been traded.

[Taro T]

So, regardless the number of picks between the Bills pick you want those? Schaub was picked 77 slots after Evans but the Bills FO should have picked him? Flacco 7 slots is within the realm. Kolb 14 picks later yet the Bills should have gobbled him up? Brees 12 picks? Leinart and Cutler you can keep.

 

Your logic is pick a QB come hell or high water. Don't consider needs. Don't consider how your scouting department has ranked players. Pick a QB.

 

Which one would you have taken this year at 3?

 

 

Depends on the era you're looking at. The current one? Lack of line play on both sides of the ball.

Back in '85 according to TBN polls, a lot of fans wanted the Bills to take Flutie w/ the #1 overall pick. (IIRC, Felser was pushing hard for that pick as well. I know somebody at the Snooze was in favor of it, my apologies to Larry if I have him confused w/ a different writer.) Having that #1 overall pick would have been much better than the guy they chose.

[Pondslider]

Back in '85 according to TBN polls, a lot of fans wanted the Bills to take Flutie w/ the #1 overall pick. (IIRC, Felser was pushing hard for that pick as well. I know somebody at the Snooze was in favor of it, my apologies to Larry if I have him confused w/ a different writer.) Having that #1 overall pick would have been much better than the guy they chose.

 

Ralph wanted Flutie too. So the owner wanted a QB with the first pick and the GM won. It's all Polian's fault.

[BADOLBILZ]

So, regardless the number of picks between the Bills pick you want those? Schaub was picked 77 slots after Evans but the Bills FO should have picked him? Flacco 7 slots is within the realm. Kolb 14 picks later yet the Bills should have gobbled him up? Brees 12 picks? Leinart and Cutler you can keep.

 

Your logic is pick a QB come hell or high water. Don't consider needs. Don't consider how your scouting department has ranked players. Pick a QB.

 

Which one would you have taken this year at 3?

 

You are trying to take this argument into a year by year analysis, and AGAIN, that is not the point. You have already illustrated that in hindsight there is probably a QB in every draft that they coulda' shoulda' taken. I know that, but that's an entirely different argument IMO.

 

Answer me one question, yes or no, do you think that not drafting a QB with their first pick in any draft in 51 years has any bearing on their failures as an organization?

 

Beerball, logic has no place in this thread where the OP is concerned. He's proven that post after post after post and has no intention of giving you a straight answer as to who he would've taken at #3.

 

Look at the first post.....I love the Dareus pick.......you just don't get it. This post is not about assessing this years draft.

 

It's about a sample size of 51 drafts. I love Dareus as a pick, it beats the hell out of a DB or a CB. I think you would be better off just reading the topic title and calling it a day. Take it for what it's worth. If you don't see a problem in not using a first selection on a college QB in any draft in 51 years, just say so, but stop trying to press your agenda. I stated a simple fact. I believe organizational failure is reflected by this strange repulsion to drafting and QB's with their prime pick. I let Beerball lay it out......clearly they have made individual mistakes by not taking QB's in recent drafts(10 years). That's not my point here though, it's his.

[Pondslider]

You are trying to take this argument into a year by year analysis, and AGAIN, that is not the point. You have already illustrated that in hindsight there is probably a QB in every draft that they coulda' shoulda' taken. I know that, but that's an entirely different argument IMO.

 

Answer me one question, yes or no, do you think that not drafting a QB with their first pick in any draft in 51 years has any bearing on their failures as an organization?

 

Not being able to pick the right QB in most of those years has more to do with the Bills' failures than whether or not they used their 1st pick, 7th pick, or 12th pick.

[BADOLBILZ]

Ralph wanted Flutie too. So the owner wanted a QB with the first pick and the GM won. It's all Polian's fault.

 

Yes, that would have been fitting if the only QB they ever selected with their first pick in 51 years had been Flutie instead of Bruce Smith or Ray Childress, who was a fine player in his own right. Ralph typically hires unexceptional talent for his front office, Polian was a rare gem, but I like my chances better without Bruce than without Jim Kelly. Polian didn't pick Kelly, but he did go on to pick Kerry Collins and Peyton Manning with his first pick in his next two jobs. Worked out ok.

[Pondslider]

Sure but how many times have the Bills picked 1st overall in those 51 years?

Edited May 1, 2011 by Pondslider