Investigation into rising gas prices

[Chef Jim]

I live 33 miles from where I work. Walking is not an option. I already carpool with my father-in-law. Mass Transit is not an option either. Sooo, I wish I could stop buying so much gas... but that's not an option.

 

 

 

 

There is no doubt that fuel prices going up affects other industries. I don't drink coffee so no idea about that.

 

So you're only concerned about things that directly affect you. How progressive of you.

Edited April 28, 2011 by Chef Jim

[Kevbeau]

Don't forget to pay your state "Reading Atlas Shrugged" tax, as well as your federal "Quoting Atlas Shrugged" tax.

 

Popeye Shrugged?

 

The Tax Man: You just docked?

Popeye: I has.

The Tax Man: Ah ha, let's see here, that'll be 25¢ docking tax.

Popeye: What for?

The Tax Man: Where's your sea craft?

Popeye: It ain't no sea craft, it's me dinghy and it's under the wharf.

The Tax Man: Ah ha. ahh-ha. This your goods?

Popeye: They is.

The Tax Man: Yeah. You're new in town right?

Popeye: If you call this a town, yes.

The Tax Man: Well, first of all, there's 17¢ new-in-town tax, and there's 45¢ rowboat-under-the-wharf tax, and one dollar leaving-your-junk-lying-around-the-wharf tax, so all together, you owe the Commodore $1.87.

Popeye: Uh, who's this Commodore?

The Tax Man: Is that the nature of question? There's a nickel question tax.

[pBills]

So you're only concerned about things that directly affect you. How progressive of you.

 

 

Simply saying that MANY people have commutes like mine. To say, "don't buy as much gas" is not a valid idea

[TPS]

A financial treatise in Artvoice? I guess Rolling Stone ran out of space with Taibbi's rants. And yes, we can shoot the meesenger on this one.

 

Are you seriously saying that the Wall Street lobby is more powerful than the farm & food lobby? I'm sure that Obama's blue ribbon panel will be far more effective than the investigative panels that were convened in the last decade? And just how does a 15%-20% premium that speculators apparently add to the price equate to a 100% increase in the price of gas in 1 year?

Are you seriously saying the Wall STreet lobby is not as powerful? Is there any lobby more powerful than finance? There certainly isn't one that spends more.

As for the %, it's actually a conservative estimate--something I saw on Yahoo finance and the quote was "adding $25-30/barrel."

AS for AV, it's a nice little outlet when I want to put my thoughts down without having to do a journal piece that will be read by even less people...

[GG]

Are you seriously saying the Wall STreet lobby is not as powerful? Is there any lobby more powerful than finance? There certainly isn't one that spends more.

As for the %, it's actually a conservative estimate--something I saw on Yahoo finance and the quote was "adding $25-30/barrel."

 

Even though they spend more does not translate into having carte blanche, espdecially in the current era of blaming finance for all ills. If there was a direct link to Wall Street causing the price spikes, trust me there would be no shortage of politicians lining up at the gallows.

 

There's no argument that speculators will amplify & accelerate the price movements. But they don't have as much effect on the ultimate market clearing price once that's settled.

 

As for your dubious contention that Goldman & Morgan Stanley own storage facilities, you hvae to clarify whether the assets are owned by the merchant bank or the trading floor. AFAIK, traders can't own the physical assets. If they did, they would be limited in their trades. But if those storage facilities are owned by the equity investment arms of the two companies, then there's a full separation between the traders and the facility owners, and traders can't benefit from those assets.

 

AS for AV, it's a nice little outlet when I want to put my thoughts down without having to do a journal piece that will be read by even less people...

 

Depends on which journal. I'm guessing your're not referring to the WSJ.

[truth on hold]

Bogus window dressing by Obama to act like he's doing something. We won't key on the real reasons saudis are showin what they can do if we challenge them in Bahrain. And bernanke keeps printing money which is causing inflation. But Obama needs big Ben to print to keep the false recovery going until election day b

[Chef Jim]

Are you seriously saying the Wall STreet lobby is not as powerful?

 

If it's so powerful why do we have to jump throug hoops just to get someone to buy a mutual fund? The financial services industry is probably the most regulated industry there is. You wouldn't believe what it takes to hire someone, advertise a seminar, switch someone's investment etc, etc. I'm not saying the lobby is weak but to say it's powerful is a stretch.

[DC Tom]

I live 33 miles from where I work. Walking is not an option. I already carpool with my father-in-law. Mass Transit is not an option either. Sooo, I wish I could stop buying so much gas... but that's not an option.

 

Move closer to work.

[TPS]

Even though they spend more does not translate into having carte blanche, espdecially in the current era of blaming finance for all ills. If there was a direct link to Wall Street causing the price spikes, trust me there would be no shortage of politicians lining up at the gallows.

We were arguing over who has more influence, no one said anything about carte blanche.

There's no argument that speculators will amplify & accelerate the price movements. But they don't have as much effect on the ultimate market clearing price once that's settled.

"The ultimate market clearing price"....can you define exactly what you mean by that? Is that the price that would be determined if there were no speculators/investors?

As for your dubious contention that Goldman & Morgan Stanley own storage facilities, you hvae to clarify whether the assets are owned by the merchant bank or the trading floor. AFAIK, traders can't own the physical assets. If they did, they would be limited in their trades. But if those storage facilities are owned by the equity investment arms of the two companies, then there's a full separation between the traders and the facility owners, and traders can't benefit from those assets.

It's not a dubious claim. It's a fact as reported by Business Week and the Wall Street Journal...unless you don't trust them?

That last statement was funny...."full separation"....yeah, they've always made sure there was a wall....hahahahhahaha!

 

The grain merchants have taken advantage of their position for years, having the capability to store and sell in contango markets. It's not a crime, it's a riskless profit opportunity. As I stated, nothing that's being done is illegal, which is why any taskforece won't find manipulation--the rules have simply changed to favor investors.

 

Most of the "harm" is caused by "investment instruments" which are based on futures contracts. Joe Shmoe buys an ETF to "invest" in commodities, the more shmoes who buy etfs, the more demand for futures contracts, and that demand directly influences futures prices and therefore the underlying commodity price.

[Joe Miner]

I live 33 miles from where I work. Walking is not an option. I already carpool with my father-in-law. Mass Transit is not an option either. Sooo, I wish I could stop buying so much gas... but that's not an option.

 

 

 

Move closer to work.

 

Just go on strike until work gives you a free ride. It's your right.

[DC Tom]

Just go on strike until work gives you a free ride. It's your right.

 

When gas gets to $5/gal or so, I expect MD will pass a law requiring me to buy his gas. Because if I don't, I'll be killing grandma.

[TPS]

Even though they spend more does not translate into having carte blanche, espdecially in the current era of blaming finance for all ills. If there was a direct link to Wall Street causing the price spikes, trust me there would be no shortage of politicians lining up at the gallows.

 

There's no argument that speculators will amplify & accelerate the price movements. But they don't have as much effect on the ultimate market clearing price once that's settled.

 

As for your dubious contention that Goldman & Morgan Stanley own storage facilities, you hvae to clarify whether the assets are owned by the merchant bank or the trading floor. AFAIK, traders can't own the physical assets. If they did, they would be limited in their trades. But if those storage facilities are owned by the equity investment arms of the two companies, then there's a full separation between the traders and the facility owners, and traders can't benefit from those assets.

 

 

 

Depends on which journal. I'm guessing your're not referring to the WSJ.

You'll enjoy this GG:

Go Bernie!

[Adam]

Is he really looking at the gas prices or oil prices or is this just a joke?

I did. They took down the $3.79 sign in our town and put up pictures of an arm and a leg

[GG]

You'll enjoy this GG:

Go Bernie!

 

Isn't this supporting my point that there's no shortage of politicians waiting to put Wall Street in front of the firing squad? If there was more evidence that speculators account for 25%-50% of the price of whatever commodity you choose - oil/gas, then nothing gets the electorate more pumped up than a bunch of fat cat bankers in handcuffs. Unless you also believe that Obama's FTC is in Wall Street's back pocket?

 

And yes, I believe that the Chinese Wall between trading & banking is real, because the penalties for breaching that wall are a bit harsh.

 

As to my definition of a clearing price - it's the trade settlement price.

 

In order for markets to continue rising absent a fundamental supply/demand driver, you need a patsy at the table who will absorb the loss. In your case that's the investor in the ETF. But the only way funds will continue to flow into ETFs is if they continue to book gains. So how can they make money, and the guys who feed off of them make money?

 

Plus, if betting on a one way commodity trajectory was easy pickins, Amaranth would still be in business.

[/dev/null]

I did. They took down the $3.79 sign in our town and put up pictures of an arm and a leg

 

At least The Benbernank is keeping interest rates artifically low. Soon we'll have to take out a home loan to fill up

[DrFishfinder]

Is he really looking at the gas prices or oil prices or is this just a joke?

 

And IF he looks, exactly WHAT is he going to do? Tell all the producers, refineries, distributors and gas stations to lower their prices?

 

Yeah, wake me when THAT happens. (see Obamacare)

 

Spin it any way you want to regarding high gas prices.....

 

They do because they can.

 

 

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Laugh all you want... I think the prices are influenced at the local level... Really. It is easy to look around your market and see other stations raising prices... Yet, nobody dares lower them!

 

I was in New York State for the last couple of weeks... Gas prices there are drastically lower than even conservative love child states like Indiana! Who would have thunk! Did NYS suspend any taxes on gas?

 

I can't explain it... But something is going on at the local level.

 

I agree with Dr.:

 

"Spin it any way you want to regarding high gas prices.....

 

They do because they can."

 

I said the same thing when Bush was in as prez.

 

Anyway... I am not really concerned for me personally until it gets around 8-10 bucks a gallon. Aren't many more people driving better mpg vehicles than 3 years ago? Me, mine get 15 mpgs per gallon, the vehicles are 6 years old and I will still have them 10 years from now. The thing with me is that in the last 10 years or so, I haven't taken on any more debt... So I guess they can milk me of my free money. I do drive less as I am getting older.

 

 

 

[Jim in Anchorage]

Laugh all you want... I think the prices are influenced at the local level... Really. It is easy to look around your market and see other stations raising prices... Yet, nobody dares lower them!

 

I was in New York State for the last couple of weeks... Gas prices there are drastically lower than even conservative love child states like Indiana! Who would have thunk! Did NYS suspend any taxes on gas?

 

I can't explain it... But something is going on at the local level.

 

I agree with Dr.:

 

"Spin it any way you want to regarding high gas prices.....

 

They do because they can."

 

I said the same thing when Bush was in as prez.

 

Anyway... I am not really concerned for me personally until it gets around 8-10 bucks a gallon. Aren't many more people driving better mpg vehicles than 3 years ago? Me, mine get 15 mpgs per gallon, the vehicles are 6 years old and I will still have them 10 years from now. The thing with me is that in the last 10 years or so, I haven't taken on any more debt... So I guess they can milk me of my free money. I do drive less as I am getting older.

So you live a subsistence life style and buy nothing trucked or flown in? How do those Illinois oranges taste?

[ExiledInIllinois]

So you live a subsistence life style and buy nothing trucked or flown in? How do those Illinois oranges taste?

 

What did they do in the old days before all this globalization? Then there is alwys frozen concentrate... Ship it at their leisure. Or eat only locally and what is in season... One can get vitamin C another way.

One way to lose weight!! Less choice is better... To be damn with scurvy! We don't need oranges all the time.

Edited April 30, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois

[Chef Jim]

What did they do in the old days before all this globalization? Then there is alwys frozen concentrate... Ship it at their leisure. Or eat only locally and what is in season... One can get vitamin C another way.

One way to lose weight!! Less choice is better... To be damn with scurvy! We don't need oranges all the time.

 

So your local produce walks itself to the market?