Cameron Jordan

[Kurt Warner]

would love to trade back to about 8-11 and take him there and pickup a nice 2nd rounder in the process where we take a right tackle.

 

Yes, I agree. I keep saying we need to find someone in love with Newton or Gabbert (who won't make good qbs in the nfl) and trade down. I like Heywood more than Fairly, Darius or Miller for some reason anyway. This year is weird for me in that there's not a lot of separation between the early picks and I don't like the guys the media i hyping for the first five picks. Carolina has really gotten hurt this year as ordinarily the top pick does something for you but I don't think it matters this year. This would be perfect.

[1B4IDie]

Cameron Jordan is a sure thing at a position of need.

 

He will be a top 10 pick. I will bet any amount of money on that.

 

I keep seeing him at #17 to the Pats. That would be horrible

 

For a franchise that needs a sure thing why not take the sure thing. Its not a reach when you draft a sure thing.

 

I think come April the draft will work out.

1. Cam Newton

2. Marcell Dareus

3. Cam Jordan.

 

This is what a Top 5 pick looks like:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e8001e/Cameron-Jordan-talks-to-press

[Beerball]

NFLN interview

 

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but it looks like he would attend the draft if invited.

[Bob in STL]

Jordan had a mediocre short shuttle time and a subpar vertical leap (allegedly, the two most important measures for DEs):

 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/combine/de.html

 

 

We will never ask him to "short shuttle" in a game. Contain the end on running plays and abuse the QB on passing plays. That is his job. How you play in the game is more important than those tests.

[bobobonators]

The problem a 3-4 team faces taking a DE this high is return on the investment. KC took Tyson Jackson 3rd a few years ago, and while's he's OK, what kind of impact does a really good 3-4 DE make? Considering the salary, it's not worth it unless you're getting a Bruce Smith. Third is too high for a rush LB, and there aren't any top OT's going third either (not that Nix likes taking OT's).

 

Nix/Gailey/Wannstedt know they don't have the horses to be a 34, nor can they rush the passer with their existing 43 DE's. And as much as Nix says they're drafting for a 34, they used 2 top 75 picks last year on players to fit that scheme. Taking a DE this high is using premium resources on a position they've theoretically already drafted for.

 

This is not an anti-Cam Jordan thing as much as it is a staffing issue. It'd be nice if the Bills were a 4-3 defense and/or there was a QB worthy of the third pick. They might be the former, but there isn't any QB to fit the latter.

 

good post. so what are your thoughts? Try and trade down and grab an extra 2nd? Or would you go for a Cam Newton/Gabbert/Peterson pick at 3?

 

Cameron Jordan is a sure thing at a position of need.

 

He will be a top 10 pick. I will bet any amount of money on that.

 

I keep seeing him at #17 to the Pats. That would be horrible

 

For a franchise that needs a sure thing why not take the sure thing. Its not a reach when you draft a sure thing.

 

I think come April the draft will work out.

1. Cam Newton

2. Marcell Dareus

3. Cam Jordan.

 

This is what a Top 5 pick looks like:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e8001e/Cameron-Jordan-talks-to-press

 

I like Cam Jordan.

 

But this is what a top 5 pick hits like:

[1B4IDie]

good post. so what are your thoughts? Try and trade down and grab an extra 2nd? Or would you go for a Cam Newton/Gabbert/Peterson pick at 3?

 

 

 

I like Cam Jordan.

 

But this is what a top 5 pick hits like:

youtube.com/watch?v=L-99CuEwY2A&NR=1

1.) Look at my #2

2.) Laying out Dexter McCluster is not impressive. . I started the Dareus bandwagon and I think that video us weak sauce.

Edited March 19, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[NoSaint]

1.) Look at my #2

2.) Laying out Dexter McCluster is not impressive. . I started the Dareus bandwagon and I think that video us weak sauce.

Not awful.... Helped push it back inside by controling the outside blocker and disengages to cut in and make the tackle.... Can't complain too much.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Dareus is a DT though

 

Can we please stop with this? Dareus played as a 3-4 DE at Alabama. He can play DT on passing downs. But he is a 3-4 DE.

Edited March 19, 2011 by BEAST MODE BABY!

[bobobonators]

1.) Look at my #2

2.) Laying out Dexter McCluster is not impressive. . I started the Dareus bandwagon and I think that video us weak sauce.

 

lol. ok

[seq004]

At #3 I'd yes yes he's a reach and the Bills have done plenty of that in the past 10 years or so. I'd say if we trade back and take him around #15 I'd be OK with it.

[Dragonborn10]

Jordan, Quinn or Watt would be my choice in any trade down scenario that drops the Bills to 7-12. There may be two QB's, two WR's, and two CB's taken along with the Fairley, Bowers, Miller, Dareus(not guaranteeing the previous three won't be drafted before this group) in the top 10. There are so many front 7 defenders that are all basically the same it screams for a trade down with some team dumb enough to want Newton at 3.

[Orton's Arm]

Jordan had a mediocre short shuttle time and a subpar vertical leap (allegedly, the two most important measures for DEs):

 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2011/combine/de.html

Good article! It makes a very convincing case. While players who meet their criteria aren't guaranteed to succeed, players who don't meet their criteria are almost guaranteed to fail. They've clearly created a useful tool for evaluating would-be draft picks.

[Nanker]

No, his numbers weren't very good. He ran a 4.38. Schobel ran a 4.03! This is worth checking out:

 

http://www.footballo...ducing-sackseer

 

 

Good article! It makes a very convincing case. While players who meet their criteria aren't guaranteed to succeed, players who don't meet their criteria are almost guaranteed to fail. They've clearly created a useful tool for evaluating would-be draft picks.

 

Yes, it is a very good article. Thanks Dave. You're generous with sharing your research and it helps to elevate the level of discussion on the board.

 

From that article, clearly the edge rusher to go after is JJ Watt who has the best numbers - at least until Bowers runs at his Pro day on April 1.

PLAYER 	WT 	HT 	40 	BP 	VERT 	20Y 	10Y 	BROAD 	SHUT 	CONE 
Bowers 	6-3 	280 	4.64 	22 	- 	- 	- 	- 	- 	-
Quinn 	6-4 	265 	4.62 	22 	34 	2.67 	1.61 	9'8" 	4.40 	7.13
Jordan 	6-4 	287 	4.74 	25 	31 	2.72 	1.64 	9'9" 	4.37 	7.07
Watt 	6-5 	290 	4.81 	34 	37 	2.71 	1.64 	10'0" 	4.21 	6.88

 

Watt's 290 and his vertical leap is 37 - far better than those of the lighter position players listed above him. The article suggests that this is a huge factor in ranking the potential sack-mastership of a candidate. Also extremely telling is their statement that "No elite edge rusher has emerged from any round of the NFL Draft since at least 1999 with a short shuttle slower than 4.42 seconds."

Interesting read Dave. Thanks.

[Nanker]

Found numbers for Maybin here, but they don't have his Shuttle and Cone times. The thing is he's SMALL. Weighs 15 - 40 lbs lighter than this year's crop of DEs, so he should be faster and be able to jump higher and farther than guys that weigh that much more. Plus, did anyone ever mention that he was a one year wonder at PS?

 

PLAYER 		WT 	HT 	40 	BP 	VERT 	20Y 	10Y 	BROAD 	SHUT 	CONE
Maybin(combine)	249	6-4 	4.78 	22 	38 	2.69 	1.57 	10'4" 	- 	- 
Maybin(proday) 	249 	6-4 	4.64 	- 	40 	2.66 	1.54 	10'10" 	- 	-

[bobobonators]

Found numbers for Maybin here, but they don't have his Shuttle and Cone times. The thing is he's SMALL. Weighs 15 - 40 lbs lighter than this year's crop of DEs, so he should be faster and be able to jump higher and farther than guys that weigh that much more. Plus, did anyone ever mention that he was a one year wonder at PS?

 

PLAYER 		WT 	HT 	40 	BP 	VERT 	20Y 	10Y 	BROAD 	SHUT 	CONE
Maybin(combine)	249	6-4 	4.78 	22 	38 	2.69 	1.57 	10'4" 	- 	- 
Maybin(proday) 	249 	6-4 	4.64 	- 	40 	2.66 	1.54 	10'10" 	- 	-

 

here are the results for Maybin:

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=65825&draftyear=2009&genpos=OLB

 

combine: 4.38 shuttle; 7.52 cone

pro day: nothing on there; he probably didn't do it again.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Dave McBride, Sirebors and someone else had posted this link earlier.

 

It is the closest thing to a complete set of data for all the combine results. The great thing is that if you change the year in the address bar, it will give you the results from previous year's combines.

http://footballsfutu...combine/ot.html

 

I guess this topic has evolved to using statistical filters (short shuttle and vertical jump) to evaluate the likelihood of NFL success. So this link might come in handy to those who want to dig a bit deeper.

 

Keep in mind that there will always be exceptions to these kind of evaluations. Chad Henne was drafted by Bill Parcell's because he perfectly fit Parcell's QB criteria. I'd be real surprised if Henne ever becomes a good NFL QB. I watched him start for 4 years at Michigan and could have told Parcells to throw his criteria out the window as far as Henne goes.

 

FWIW, when I see JJ Watt play (regardless of what his measurables say), he seems to lack explosion and fluidity. He looks, as the scouts would say, "robotic" and stiff.

 

When I see Cameron Jordan play, I see explosion, fluidity, and athleticism that exceeds, to my eye, that of Watt.

 

What are the possible explanations? One would be that some players train for specific combine drills more than others do.

 

Anyways, I know a lot of people have changed their view of players based on combine measurables. I would caution against putting too much weight on measurables. Robert Quinn's numbers were a big disappointment to a lot of people but there's no doubt in my mind that he's gonna be a great pass rusher in the NFL.

Edited March 20, 2011 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

There are so many options at pick 3 that it makes my head spin some times but I really think one guy who gets overlooked is Cameron Jordan. With all the attention Dareus, Fairley, and Bowers get, Jordan arguably was the most impressive at the combine and he has great size, a giant wingspan, and huge hands. I know a lot of people's heads will explode if we passed up Fairley or Dareus and picked Jordan but I don't think its out of the realm of possibilities that he becomes the best D-lineman out of this great group. I'm a Fairley guy myself but I'm starting to warm up to the idea of taking Cameron Jordan at 3.

Jordan would be a reach at 3, If Dareus is there then take him then Quinn, But Gabbert overall.

[John from Riverside]

He would be a good pick in a trade down that allows us to pick up more picks.

 

An additional 2nd rounder in this draft would allow us a good backup QB/grooming QB and still be able to go defense again in the 2nd round.

[Orton's Arm]

Dave McBride, Sirebors and someone else had posted this link earlier.

 

It is the closest thing to a complete set of data for all the combine results. The great thing is that if you change the year in the address bar, it will give you the results from previous year's combines.

http://footballsfutu...combine/ot.html

 

I guess this topic has evolved to using statistical filters (short shuttle and vertical jump) to evaluate the likelihood of NFL success. So this link might come in handy to those who want to dig a bit deeper.

 

Keep in mind that there will always be exceptions to these kind of evaluations. Chad Henne was drafted by Bill Parcell's because he perfectly fit Parcell's QB criteria. I'd be real surprised if Henne ever becomes a good NFL QB. I watched him start for 4 years at Michigan and could have told Parcells to throw his criteria out the window as far as Henne goes.

 

FWIW, when I see JJ Watt play (regardless of what his measurables say), he seems to lack explosion and fluidity. He looks, as the scouts would say, "robotic" and stiff.

 

When I see Cameron Jordan play, I see explosion, fluidity, and athleticism that exceeds, to my eye, that of Watt.

 

What are the possible explanations? One would be that some players train for specific combine drills more than others do.

 

Anyways, I know a lot of people have changed their view of players based on combine measurables. I would caution against putting too much weight on measurables. Robert Quinn's numbers were a big disappointment to a lot of people but there's no doubt in my mind that he's gonna be a great pass rusher in the NFL.

A lot of times when you come up with some measurement system, it's better at weeding out potential busts than it is at telling you which player is likely to succeed. For example, you might weed out a player with a slow short shuttle time/poor vertical jump. But if a player looked unimpressive on the field, you shouldn't take him on the basis of a good vertical jump + fast short shuttle!

 

Similarly at QB, you might weed a guy out if his Wonderlic was too low, and if other factors seemed to point to an inadequate ability to grasp the mental aspects of the game. But I can't imagine taking a QB early because of a high Wonderlic score.

 

To address the two players in question: you start with player grades based on what you see on the field. Your grade for Jordan would obviously be a lot higher than that for Watt. But then you should adjust for what a player does at the combine. But that's usually more a case of downgrading a player's grade if he didn't get the key measureables you'd expected, than upgrading a player whose measureables exceeded your expectations.

[1B4IDie]

Here is that video:

 

 

Jake Locker, Barkley, Foles, and Andrew Luck all make guest appearances.

 

This is also a good one:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/09000d5d81e8001e/Cameron-Jordan-talks-to-press

 

Wouldn't you love hearing how "he loved hitting Brady and hearing the wind come out of his chest" after the first Bills win over the Pats in almost a decade.

 

He is a top 10 player no doubt. Yes it will be a "reach" but he just seems like a Buddy Nix kind of guy to me. This guy can be the face of the franchise.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Why So Serious?