thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think Jordan would be a reach at 3, yes, for a few reasons. One is that I think there are better 5-tech DEs in this draft; I personally prefer JJ Watt to Jordan (I think Dareus will be gone at 2). Mostly though, I don't think there's a big dropoff between a guy like Jordan and some of the 5-tech prospects the team could draft in the 2nd round. There's sure to be one of the following available at pick 34, all of whom I feel can be almost as effective as Jordan: Cameron Heyward Muhammad Wilkerson Adrian Clayborn Marvin Austin Jurrell Casey Steven Paea Christian Ballard Allen Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think Jordan would be a reach at 3, yes, for a few reasons. One is that I think there are better 5-tech DEs in this draft; I personally prefer JJ Watt to Jordan (I think Dareus will be gone at 2). Mostly though, I don't think there's a big dropoff between a guy like Jordan and some of the 5-tech prospects the team could draft in the 2nd round. There's sure to be one of the following available at pick 34, all of whom I feel can be almost as effective as Jordan: Cameron Heyward Muhammad Wilkerson Adrian Clayborn Marvin Austin Jurrell Casey Steven Paea Christian Ballard Allen Bailey I have to run out quickly, so I dont have time to analyze your entire list. However, from a first glance, you have a few players listed who most certainly will NOT play the 5-tech in a 3-4. Marvin Austin and Steven Paea are the first two to jump out. Back in a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABills08 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I think Jordan would be a reach at 3, yes, for a few reasons. One is that I think there are better 5-tech DEs in this draft; I personally prefer JJ Watt to Jordan (I think Dareus will be gone at 2). Mostly though, I don't think there's a big dropoff between a guy like Jordan and some of the 5-tech prospects the team could draft in the 2nd round. There's sure to be one of the following available at pick 34, all of whom I feel can be almost as effective as Jordan: Cameron Heyward Muhammad Wilkerson Adrian Clayborn Marvin Austin Jurrell Casey Steven Paea Christian Ballard Allen Bailey That's essentially my point. I mean, as I just posted in another thread, I literally have no clue who the Bills will pick, and to be honest, I'm not even sure I know who I'd WANT them to pick. The lack of free agency made this draft 10x more difficult to predict, and I'm sure it made planning by the FO of each team 20x harder (for example, if the Bills added depth at linebacker via FA and re-signed Poz, would we even be talking about Miller). I imagine each team is going to leave FA out of the equation and just assume that whoever they don't have under contract for 2011, can't be accounted for as a member of the team. That is why I THOUGHT the Bills would go hard for defense, until I realized that there aren't many teams with a top 3 pick and no long term QB, who skip over having a chance to draft a high grade QB. But at least in terms of Jordan, with so many options for the Bills later in the draft, they better see a huge difference between him and say, Adrian Clayborn, for the Bills to take that risk. Id you're the Bills, I honestly think you need to swing for the fences. That wouldn't mean picking Jordan at 3. Edited April 25, 2011 by Union2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I think we can all agree that the game of Football is won and lost in the trenches. Everything starts and stops at the line of scrimmage. Control the line, control the game. Last year, the Bills decided to take a "behind the line" player instead of addressing their trenches. Specifically, the glaring hole at OT. They were afraid of "reaching" for an OT and instead took "the most talented Running Back". What we quickly found out was simple, even the most talented RB cant run the ball through the OLine when they suck. It's something we've been seeing in Buffalo for the past decade. Meanwhile, the OT we were "afraid to reach for" went on to start the entire season for the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS. This year, the experts and most fans want us to take ANOTHER "behind the line" player instead of addressing the obvious needs in the trenches. Von Miller, as a speed specialist is almost a perfect defensive analogy for CJ Spiller. His play will be directly effected by our Line in front of him, and our DLine is no where near complete. Miller will only be successful if our DLine already poses a greater threat than even he does, and they simply do not. Now Im hearing that we are "afraid of reaching" for a DLineman in one of the best DL drafts in recent history. This blows my mind. I would much rather take Jordan at #3 overall than Von Miller. Miller may be the more talented player. Miller may go on to have a great career somewhere else. But I simply do not think he'll be able to translate his game to the NFL without a TOP NOTCH DLine in front of him. I also do not think taking a DL in the 2nd or 3rd will be the answer needed for creating that Top Notch DL. Get one of the top 5 ranked DLinemen at #3 and go from there. They will singlehandedly make our LBs better. Much like a good OLine making good RBs "great" (see: Emmitt Smith, Thurman Thomas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If a guy is good enough to be taken at 10, he's good enough to be taken at 3. The jags "reached" for Alualu last year and look how that turned out. I dont think you can go wrong with Jordan. If Dareus is gone, i've got no problem with Miller/Jordan at #3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I have to run out quickly, so I dont have time to analyze your entire list. However, from a first glance, you have a few players listed who most certainly will NOT play the 5-tech in a 3-4. Marvin Austin and Steven Paea are the first two to jump out. Back in a bit... I don't necessarily mean that's where each of those guys will end up, but rather that I think they could play the position. The only downside I could see to a guy like Austin or Paea playing 5-tech is that they both lack ideal arm length, but I think that's splitting hairs. Either could make a good oustide run defender on 1st/2nd down, and could kick inside on 3rd downs or when we move to a 4-3 alignment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABills08 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) I think we can all agree that the game of Football is won and lost in the trenches. Everything starts and stops at the line of scrimmage. Control the line, control the game. Last year, the Bills decided to take a "behind the line" player instead of addressing their trenches. Specifically, the glaring hole at OT. They were afraid of "reaching" for an OT and instead took "the most talented Running Back". What we quickly found out was simple, even the most talented RB cant run the ball through the OLine when they suck. It's something we've been seeing in Buffalo for the past decade. Meanwhile, the OT we were "afraid to reach for" went on to start the entire season for the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS. This year, the experts and most fans want us to take ANOTHER "behind the line" player instead of addressing the obvious needs in the trenches. Von Miller, as a speed specialist is almost a perfect defensive analogy for CJ Spiller. His play will be directly effected by our Line in front of him, and our DLine is no where near complete. Miller will only be successful if our DLine already poses a greater threat than even he does, and they simply do not. Now Im hearing that we are "afraid of reaching" for a DLineman in one of the best DL drafts in recent history. This blows my mind. I would much rather take Jordan at #3 overall than Von Miller. Miller may be the more talented player. Miller may go on to have a great career somewhere else. But I simply do not think he'll be able to translate his game to the NFL without a TOP NOTCH DLine in front of him. I also do not think taking a DL in the 2nd or 3rd will be the answer needed for creating that Top Notch DL. Get one of the top 5 ranked DLinemen at #3 and go from there. They will singlehandedly make our LBs better. Much like a good OLine making good RBs "great" (see: Emmitt Smith, Thurman Thomas). I definitely hear and respect that logic. I've been arguing for years that the biggest problem facing the Bills' rebuilding efforts has been the lack of emphasis they've placed on rebuilding the defensive/offensive lines. So, in so far as THAT should be given focus, I agree. And I actually concur with the Miller/Spiller comparison, in that both of their respective successes will depend on the ability of both the D-Line/O-Line to hold up their end of the bargain (though I think this is much more of an issue with a RB than with a linebacker). At the same time, I have no problem with the Spiller pick, bc there were no offensive lineman worth reaching for at his slot (look back in the draft and tell me who'd you prefer, its easy to criticize the choice, but who would have been the better pick in retrospect? There is no clear cut better choice). And regarding this current draft, I completely disagree with the notion that if a guy is good enough to take at 10, he is good enough to take at 3. What!? Having a top 3 choice is not the same as having the number 10 overall pick. A number 3 draft choice is not the time to follow a pre-set methodology that says: "No matter who is on the board, we are going to take defensive/offensive lineman". If you have a number 3 draft pick, you better strongly consider taking the best player on your board, regardless of position. Hell, I'd prefer Peterson or AJ Green over Cameron Jordan. I think that is what you need to focus on when you pick that high. Not "who's going to fix a problem", but rather "who are we not going to have the chance to pick again". And I know that AJ Green and Peterson would be the epitome of luxury picks! But, this is just the beginning of whats going to be a 2-3 year rebuilding process. So I'm okay with the Bills taking the best guy out there for the time being. Edited April 25, 2011 by Union2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I think we can all agree that the game of Football is won and lost in the trenches. Everything starts and stops at the line of scrimmage. Control the line, control the game. Last year, the Bills decided to take a "behind the line" player instead of addressing their trenches. Specifically, the glaring hole at OT. They were afraid of "reaching" for an OT and instead took "the most talented Running Back". What we quickly found out was simple, even the most talented RB cant run the ball through the OLine when they suck. It's something we've been seeing in Buffalo for the past decade. Meanwhile, the OT we were "afraid to reach for" went on to start the entire season for the SUPER BOWL CHAMPS. This year, the experts and most fans want us to take ANOTHER "behind the line" player instead of addressing the obvious needs in the trenches. Von Miller, as a speed specialist is almost a perfect defensive analogy for CJ Spiller. His play will be directly effected by our Line in front of him, and our DLine is no where near complete. Miller will only be successful if our DLine already poses a greater threat than even he does, and they simply do not. Now Im hearing that we are "afraid of reaching" for a DLineman in one of the best DL drafts in recent history. This blows my mind. I would much rather take Jordan at #3 overall than Von Miller. Miller may be the more talented player. Miller may go on to have a great career somewhere else. But I simply do not think he'll be able to translate his game to the NFL without a TOP NOTCH DLine in front of him. I also do not think taking a DL in the 2nd or 3rd will be the answer needed for creating that Top Notch DL. Get one of the top 5 ranked DLinemen at #3 and go from there. They will singlehandedly make our LBs better. Much like a good OLine making good RBs "great" (see: Emmitt Smith, Thurman Thomas). During WWII, an American general in what would later become the U.S. Air Force said (not an exact quote), "I will not go so far as to say we can win the war with air superiority alone. But I will say that the war will not be won without it." I think a similar argument can be made about the trenches. If your offensive line fails to provide decent pass protection or run-blocking, your offense as a whole is likely to collapse. Similarly, if you can't get a decent pass rush from your front-4 (in a 4-3) or your front 3 + 1 (3-4), you're setting your defense up to have a lot of problems. But once your front lines are playing at least as well as those of the other team, the skill positions begin to matter considerably more than they otherwise would have. Consider the Ravens of 2000. It's safe to say that their lines were good to dominant on both sides of the ball. But their offense went five straight games without scoring a touchdown. They had a very good OL led by a Hall of Fame-level LT in Jon Ogden. Unfortunately for them, they also had Tony Banks at quarterback for the first few of those touchdown-less games. Even after Trent Dilfer provided an upgrade at QB, their QB situation still wasn't anything to write home about. If you have an offense with a good OL--which the Ravens did--and if you add good weapons, it's like building a high quality Ferrari. But then, if you put a Tony Banks in at quarterback, it's like handing the keys to that Ferrari to someone's grandmother. You're not going to win too many races with her in the driver's seat, no matter how good a job you did in building that Ferrari in the first place! The better your car, the better the driver it deserves to have. An offensive line which can give the QB five seconds to throw is a thing of beauty. Giving all that pass protection to a Tony Banks or a Trent Dilfer is a squandering of your offense's great potential. You are much better off giving those five seconds of pass protection to a Kurt Warner or an Aaron Rodgers. Trust me--a Kurt Warner with five seconds of pass protection will do much more damage to the defense than Tony Banks or Trent Dilfer would have! Also--while I agree your WRs are less important than your OL or your QB, they still do matter. If nothing else, you at least want WRs who are reasonably good at avoiding dropped passes. Not to mention a TE who's a good outlet receiver for a QB that's in trouble. Obviously you want a receiving corps that can do more than just that. But you at least need that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts