SoggyHog Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 J.J. Watt (6'5"-290)is a prime candidate to play the five-technique position in the 3-4 base defense. Relentless rushing the passer yet active against the run, he flashes quickness off the snap and willingness to pop and knock back blockers. He has the strength to shed blocks and bull through double teams. A high-effort tackler with long arms combined with excellent character and work ethic, he's a perfect fit for a team that loves "Lunch-pail" blue-collar types. After a STRONG combine, he has secured himself in the middle of the first round, however not worthy of a number 3 pick, there is a way to draft him in the first round and secure more picks in this years draft. Here is a scenario: Bills/Vikings trade: Vikings receive #3(Cam Newton?) Bills receive #12-#43-#105 and a 2nd/3rd in 2012 #12 - J.J Watt, DE34, Wisconsin (start from day 1, play for 10 years) #34 - Brooks Reed, OLB34, Arizona (powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush, nice one-two punch in rounds 1 and 2!) #43 - Marcus Cannon, ROT, TCU (ready to step-in to the weakest position on the team) #68 - Ben Ijalana, OG, Villanova (Wood slides to Center, nice interior line-up) #99 - Mark Herzlich, SILB, Boston College (Cancer survivor falls to this pick. See character/work ethic for Watt 2.0) #105 - Orlando Franklin, LOT, Miami(FL) (Competition for undersized Bell) #121 - DeJon Gomes, SS, Nebraska (bye bye Whitner, hello Gomes) #130 - Julius Thomas, TE, Portland St. (nice hands, big target, needs work on blocking) #164 - Chris Rucker, CB, Michigan St. (bpa, need) #195 - Anthony Gray, DT34, Southern Miss (bpa, need depth) Does not address the QB situation (franchise/depth), however other than Ponder or Mallet, I don't see a QB worthy of a pick, IMO. Thoughts....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 forget lunch pail guys who work hard, this team needs ELITE talents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 J.J. Watt (6'5"-290)is a prime candidate to play the five-technique position in the 3-4 base defense. Relentless rushing the passer yet active against the run, he flashes quickness off the snap and willingness to pop and knock back blockers. He has the strength to shed blocks and bull through double teams. A high-effort tackler with long arms combined with excellent character and work ethic, he's a perfect fit for a team that loves "Lunch-pail" blue-collar types. After a STRONG combine, he has secured himself in the middle of the first round, however not worthy of a number 3 pick, there is a way to draft him in the first round and secure more picks in this years draft. Here is a scenario: Bills/Vikings trade: Vikings receive #3(Cam Newton?) Bills receive #12-#43-#105 and a 2nd/3rd in 2012 #12 - J.J Watt, DE34, Wisconsin (start from day 1, play for 10 years) #34 - Brooks Reed, OLB34, Arizona (powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush, nice one-two punch in rounds 1 and 2!) #43 - Marcus Cannon, ROT, TCU (ready to step-in to the weakest position on the team)#68 - Ben Ijalana, OG, Villanova (Wood slides to Center, nice interior line-up)#99 - Mark Herzlich, SILB, Boston College (Cancer survivor falls to this pick. See character/work ethic for Watt 2.0) #105 - Orlando Franklin, LOT, Miami(FL) (Competition for undersized Bell) #121 - DeJon Gomes, SS, Nebraska (bye bye Whitner, hello Gomes) #130 - Julius Thomas, TE, Portland St. (nice hands, big target, needs work on blocking) #164 - Chris Rucker, CB, Michigan St. (bpa, need) #195 - Anthony Gray, DT34, Southern Miss (bpa, need depth) Does not address the QB situation (franchise/depth), however other than Ponder or Mallet, I don't see a QB worthy of a pick, IMO. Thoughts....... Yeah, with all this defensive talent in this draft lets waste two of our first four picks on OL....NOT. Our line isn't that bad, and the way to fill that need is a solid vet free agent and get loaded on the D side of the ball this draft. I would like to see all Defensive players and maybe 1 Offensive player (TE) in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geno Smith's Arm Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is a special draft, definitley not the right draft to trade away picks to get more picks for NEXT years draft. There are more juniors declaring for this draft than ever before because of the CBA situation. To trade away picks, and receive picks for next years draft would really be foolish. This is a VERY strong draft, and for that reason I wouldn't mind if they traded down in return for more pick in THIS years draft. The Bills need to get a game changing talent from this draft. How they do it, I don't care. But DO it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 J.J. Watt (6'5"-290)is a prime candidate to play the five-technique position in the 3-4 base defense. Relentless rushing the passer yet active against the run, he flashes quickness off the snap and willingness to pop and knock back blockers. He has the strength to shed blocks and bull through double teams. A high-effort tackler with long arms combined with excellent character and work ethic, he's a perfect fit for a team that loves "Lunch-pail" blue-collar types. After a STRONG combine, he has secured himself in the middle of the first round, however not worthy of a number 3 pick, there is a way to draft him in the first round and secure more picks in this years draft. Here is a scenario: Bills/Vikings trade: Vikings receive #3(Cam Newton?) Bills receive #12-#43-#105 and a 2nd/3rd in 2012 #12 - J.J Watt, DE34, Wisconsin (start from day 1, play for 10 years) #34 - Brooks Reed, OLB34, Arizona (powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush, nice one-two punch in rounds 1 and 2!) #43 - Marcus Cannon, ROT, TCU (ready to step-in to the weakest position on the team) #68 - Ben Ijalana, OG, Villanova (Wood slides to Center, nice interior line-up) #99 - Mark Herzlich, SILB, Boston College (Cancer survivor falls to this pick. See character/work ethic for Watt 2.0) #105 - Orlando Franklin, LOT, Miami(FL) (Competition for undersized Bell) #121 - DeJon Gomes, SS, Nebraska (bye bye Whitner, hello Gomes) #130 - Julius Thomas, TE, Portland St. (nice hands, big target, needs work on blocking) #164 - Chris Rucker, CB, Michigan St. (bpa, need) #195 - Anthony Gray, DT34, Southern Miss (bpa, need depth) Does not address the QB situation (franchise/depth), however other than Ponder or Mallet, I don't see a QB worthy of a pick, IMO. Thoughts....... I like the idea of more depth for OL, but this team needs defense and more picks, if anything. Any trade should involve more picks this year, in early rounds; otherwise, get an elite d-lineman with the number 3 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Our line isn't that bad, and the way to fill that need is a solid vet free agent and get loaded on the D side of the ball this draft. What do you base this on, the huge holes they open up for the ground game, their ability to muscle out third down and short yardage plays, or the abundance of time Fitz has to throw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 What do you base this on, the huge holes they open up for the ground game, their ability to muscle out third down and short yardage plays, or the abundance of time Fitz has to throw? Without looking at the #'s, I can tell you that a) their YPC was at least middle of the pack last year, b) their third down conversion rate was extremely good w/ Fitzpatrick and c) Fitzpatrick was definitely sacked a below average # of times after taking over last year relative to the rest of the league. No one is saying that their offensive line is elite, but if you don't think that it's a young, up-and-coming offensive line, then I don't know what to tell ya. They have a C/LG combo that will be here for the next ten years, a LT that, whether Bill from NYC likes it or not, the staff believes in and is gonna be there and yes, they could use a RT. But it's certainly not a top area of concern. Which isn't to say they won't take a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round, but don't mock the OL as if it's a complete joke (which it was in '09- although Edwards undoubtedly made it look worse). I think you need to watch more football besides the Bills to gain some perspective. Not every QB can just drop back and chill out for five seconds and then make a throw unscathed. Even the Colts had OL problems last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Without looking at the #'s, I can tell you that a) their YPC was at least middle of the pack last year, b) their third down conversion rate was extremely good w/ Fitzpatrick and c) Fitzpatrick was definitely sacked a below average # of times after taking over last year relative to the rest of the league. No one is saying that their offensive line is elite, but if you don't think that it's a young, up-and-coming offensive line, then I don't know what to tell ya. They have a C/LG combo that will be here for the next ten years, a LT that, whether Bill from NYC likes it or not, the staff believes in and is gonna be there and yes, they could use a RT. But it's certainly not a top area of concern. Which isn't to say they won't take a RT in the 2nd or 3rd round, but don't mock the OL as if it's a complete joke (which it was in '09- although Edwards undoubtedly made it look worse). I think you need to watch more football besides the Bills to gain some perspective. Not every QB can just drop back and chill out for five seconds and then make a throw unscathed. Even the Colts had OL problems last year. How were their numbers on third and short? Can they be counted on to grind out a yard or 2? And wrt Bell, he does have an upside. He is agile enough to play LT but he is a small, comparatively weak developmental project, one who has been our starter. This fact alone should make one see that the Bills have neglected this important area. An btw, the Bills believed a lot of guys were "gonna be there." Hardly a ringing endorsement, ya know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yeah, with all this defensive talent in this draft lets waste two of our first four picks on OL....NOT. Our line isn't that bad, and the way to fill that need is a solid vet free agent and get loaded on the D side of the ball this draft. I would like to see all Defensive players and maybe 1 Offensive player (TE) in this draft. Our OL is horrible. Where have you been the last 10 seasons? We need at least a RT to field a below average line, and a RG if we want to be above average. That is assuming Bell plays better than he did last year, the FO figures out that Hangartner is a career backup, and we have no injuries. The only problem I have with those picks is that they will likely need to be made a round earlier. Ijelana is an early 2nd type prospect and wont last until the 4th. PS: Our O was just as bad as our D last year. You don’t thinka dding 3 starting caliber players in one draft (Watt, Reed, Herzlich) is enough? We also had Carrington, Troup, Moats, and Batten last year. Overkill much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoggyHog Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is a special draft, definitley not the right draft to trade away picks to get more picks for NEXT years draft. There are more juniors declaring for this draft than ever before because of the CBA situation. To trade away picks, and receive picks for next years draft would really be foolish. This is a VERY strong draft, and for that reason I wouldn't mind if they traded down in return for more pick in THIS years draft. The Bills need to get a game changing talent from this draft. How they do it, I don't care. But DO it. Well, that's what I have. They move back 9 spots and pick-up 2 picks THIS year and maybe one next year. IMO, no team is giving a 2nd, 3rd and 4th pick this year to move up 9 spots. That's why, typically, teams give a pick in the next years draft as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Nix has already said that he doesn't believe in trading down because you run the risk of the guy you want being taken before you're up to pick. He said that they're going to take the guy that they like regardless. Nix has been pretty up front up until this point so I have no reason to not believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 forget lunch pail guys who work hard, this team needs ELITE talents You mean BLACK talent? Watt is a monster. Make no mistake about it. Nix has already said that he doesn't believe in trading down because you run the risk of the guy you want being taken before you're up to pick. He said that they're going to take the guy that they like regardless. Nix has been pretty up front up until this point so I have no reason to not believe him. If a team drafting in the top 10 comes knocking and offers a 1st, 2nd and another pick, i think he'd pull the trigger.... Unless he wants newton or gabbert bafly Our OL is horrible. Where have you been the last 10 seasons? We need at least a RT to field a below average line, and a RG if we want to be above average. That is assuming Bell plays better than he did last year, the FO figures out that Hangartner is a career backup, and we have no injuries. The only problem I have with those picks is that they will likely need to be made a round earlier. Ijelana is an early 2nd type prospect and wont last until the 4th. PS: Our O was just as bad as our D last year. You don’t thinka dding 3 starting caliber players in one draft (Watt, Reed, Herzlich) is enough? We also had Carrington, Troup, Moats, and Batten last year. Overkill much? I'd have to disagree with your "PS". We are the WORST in the league at stopping the run. That in itself makes our defense worse than our offense, IMO. The WORST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 (edited) Yeah, with all this defensive talent in this draft lets waste two of our first four picks on OL....NOT. Our line isn't that bad, and the way to fill that need is a solid vet free agent and get loaded on the D side of the ball this draft. I would like to see all Defensive players and maybe 1 Offensive player (TE) in this draft. This seems an absurd criticism. He has us taking defense with the first 2 picks and a 3rd defensive pick inside the top 100. I don't see the wisdom in neglecting the Oline just because we've finally got most of it looking at least adequate. We still have a huge gaping hole at RT. And I hate to burst everyone's bubble but for all the interior depth, we only have 2 that are currently starting caliber players to fill 3 positions. Edited March 21, 2011 by Rob's House Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 What do you base this on, the huge holes they open up for the ground game, their ability to muscle out third down and short yardage plays, or the abundance of time Fitz has to throw? From what I saw last year, we are set with wood and levitre. Bell showed another year of improvement. Is he a stud LT? No, but I'm encouraged by his progress and think he has a chance to develop into a very solid player. I loved what I saw from Urbik. I'm hoping he can man RG while wood shifts to C. Urbik could be a beast, he might not, just like every guy we could possibly draft. That leaves RT. I Thought Wrotto did an admirable job coming in and starting from his first week with the team. I don't think he'll ever amount to an upper tier RT and he should be the first OL upgraded. To answer your question, no, there weren't many huge holes or 5 second dropbacks. I feel part of the reason is due too the previous season, when teams had all the success in the world bringing the heat with blitzes against us. We faced a good amount of blitzes last year a well, and no matter how good your OL is, when they bring more people than you have blocking, you're not gonna have much time. Is our OL great? NO. Is it good? Not right now. I feel adding a good RT, our OL can develop into a line that we're happy with. I should say us....you won't be happy til bell is gone. I don't feel it's as bad as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 J.J. Watt (6'5"-290)is a prime candidate to play the five-technique position in the 3-4 base defense. Relentless rushing the passer yet active against the run, he flashes quickness off the snap and willingness to pop and knock back blockers. He has the strength to shed blocks and bull through double teams. A high-effort tackler with long arms combined with excellent character and work ethic, he's a perfect fit for a team that loves "Lunch-pail" blue-collar types. After a STRONG combine, he has secured himself in the middle of the first round, however not worthy of a number 3 pick, there is a way to draft him in the first round and secure more picks in this years draft. Here is a scenario: Bills/Vikings trade: Vikings receive #3(Cam Newton?) Bills receive #12-#43-#105 and a 2nd/3rd in 2012 #12 - J.J Watt, DE34, Wisconsin (start from day 1, play for 10 years) #34 - Brooks Reed, OLB34, Arizona (powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush, nice one-two punch in rounds 1 and 2!) #43 - Marcus Cannon, ROT, TCU (ready to step-in to the weakest position on the team) #68 - Ben Ijalana, OG, Villanova (Wood slides to Center, nice interior line-up) #99 - Mark Herzlich, SILB, Boston College (Cancer survivor falls to this pick. See character/work ethic for Watt 2.0) #105 - Orlando Franklin, LOT, Miami(FL) (Competition for undersized Bell) #121 - DeJon Gomes, SS, Nebraska (bye bye Whitner, hello Gomes) #130 - Julius Thomas, TE, Portland St. (nice hands, big target, needs work on blocking) #164 - Chris Rucker, CB, Michigan St. (bpa, need) #195 - Anthony Gray, DT34, Southern Miss (bpa, need depth) Does not address the QB situation (franchise/depth), however other than Ponder or Mallet, I don't see a QB worthy of a pick, IMO. Thoughts....... What is Watt, Reed and Herzlich going to do for us? You can't really rush the passer under the new rules. We need weapons in the passing game and guys to create passing lanes. Teams will be averaging around 40 points under the new rules, maybe 50 or 60 for the good teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8-8 Forever? Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 J.J. Watt (6'5"-290)is a prime candidate to play the five-technique position in the 3-4 base defense. Relentless rushing the passer yet active against the run, he flashes quickness off the snap and willingness to pop and knock back blockers. He has the strength to shed blocks and bull through double teams. A high-effort tackler with long arms combined with excellent character and work ethic, he's a perfect fit for a team that loves "Lunch-pail" blue-collar types. After a STRONG combine, he has secured himself in the middle of the first round, however not worthy of a number 3 pick, there is a way to draft him in the first round and secure more picks in this years draft. Here is a scenario: Bills/Vikings trade: Vikings receive #3(Cam Newton?) Bills receive #12-#43-#105 and a 2nd/3rd in 2012 #12 - J.J Watt, DE34, Wisconsin (start from day 1, play for 10 years) #34 - Brooks Reed, OLB34, Arizona (powerful bull rush and a quality speed rush, nice one-two punch in rounds 1 and 2!) #43 - Marcus Cannon, ROT, TCU (ready to step-in to the weakest position on the team) #68 - Ben Ijalana, OG, Villanova (Wood slides to Center, nice interior line-up) #99 - Mark Herzlich, SILB, Boston College (Cancer survivor falls to this pick. See character/work ethic for Watt 2.0) #105 - Orlando Franklin, LOT, Miami(FL) (Competition for undersized Bell) #121 - DeJon Gomes, SS, Nebraska (bye bye Whitner, hello Gomes) #130 - Julius Thomas, TE, Portland St. (nice hands, big target, needs work on blocking) #164 - Chris Rucker, CB, Michigan St. (bpa, need) #195 - Anthony Gray, DT34, Southern Miss (bpa, need depth) Does not address the QB situation (franchise/depth), however other than Ponder or Mallet, I don't see a QB worthy of a pick, IMO. Thoughts....... If Dareus is gone, I agree on the trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'd have to disagree with your "PS". We are the WORST in the league at stopping the run. That in itself makes our defense worse than our offense, IMO. The WORST. Yea I know what you mean Watching the games it look like our D was worse, but statistically we were ranked 24th our of 32 in both O and D. It’s all relative really. Even though our D was worse than our O “head to head”, our O was just as bad when compared to the rest of the league. I absolutely wouldn’t say we should ignore two very good OL prospects, that would fix the worst unit on the Offense other than TE, while drafting 3 starters on D, because our D was that much worse (going back to my riginal comment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 How were their numbers on third and short? Can they be counted on to grind out a yard or 2? And wrt Bell, he does have an upside. He is agile enough to play LT but he is a small, comparatively weak developmental project, one who has been our starter. This fact alone should make one see that the Bills have neglected this important area. An btw, the Bills believed a lot of guys were "gonna be there." Hardly a ringing endorsement, ya know? Here ya go Bill: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol 11th in the NFL in "Power Success", which FO defines as "Percentage of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown. Also includes runs on first-and-goal or second-and-goal from the two-yard line or closer." So I guess, in regard to your question, yes. I personally think that with Wood moving to center, and the contingent of Urbik, Hangartner, Pears, and Rinehart fighting it out for the RG spot, the team is probably set with the exception of RT. That is, of course, assuming that a full, healthy offseason will benefit Bell and help him develop into an average LT, of which I will admit I am hopeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yea I know what you mean Watching the games it look like our D was worse, but statistically we were ranked 24th our of 32 in both O and D. It’s all relative really. Even though our D was worse than our O “head to head”, our O was just as bad when compared to the rest of the league. I absolutely wouldn’t say we should ignore two very good OL prospects, that would fix the worst unit on the Offense other than TE, while drafting 3 starters on D, because our D was that much worse (going back to my riginal comment) I agree that adding a RT in round 1-3 would be a great idea depending on who's available, but I don't think adding 2 OL in our first 3 or 4 picks would be a good idea considering the defensive talent that may be available in this draft. We def need to upgrade RT, but we have 4 guys, all with considerable upside manning LT-LG-C-RG. I think our OLine has MUCH more upside than our LBs currently do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 What is Watt, Reed and Herzlich going to do for us? You can't really rush the passer under the new rules. We need weapons in the passing game and guys to create passing lanes. Teams will be averaging around 40 points under the new rules, maybe 50 or 60 for the good teams What rule change did I miss that will turn the NFL into the Arena League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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