3rdnlng Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 (edited) http://blog.energytomorrow.org/2011/01/the-impacts-of-delay.html?gclid=CJXokZq6vacCFQhy5Qod7Bk52Q http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/15/first-gulf-of-mexico-drilling-company-seahawk-files-bankruptcy-because-of-offshore-drilling-moratorium/ I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. Edited March 7, 2011 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. The 26 people who bought a Volt are laughing at you right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Where are all the hysterical Op-Ed pieces calling for the release of our Strategic Reserves and questioning oil company contributions to the President's campaign? Also, are they planning to rerun that made-for-TV movie about the entire country collapsing into chaos when gas hits $10/gallon?? I recall that one getting a lot of attention a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Where are all the hysterical Op-Ed pieces calling for the release of our Strategic Reserves and questioning oil company contributions to the President's campaign? Tomorrow's papers. I heard quite a few talking heads this morning saying "Here's what I'll be writing..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 The 26 people who bought a Volt are laughing at you right now. The 100M of us whose tax dollars subsidized the Volt aren't laughing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 I have never spent below 60 dollars to fill up my vehicles in the last 6 years. Shoouldn't we all be complaining about the "free" market? What is causing gas prices to rise? Oh yeah... "Democracy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 There is no shortage of oil. Hence demand can't be driving the prices. Is it more expensive for the producers? And why do gas prices rise immediately when oil prices rise, yet when they fall, it takes a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 There is no shortage of oil. Hence demand can't be driving the prices. Is it more expensive for the producers? And why do gas prices rise immediately when oil prices rise, yet when they fall, it takes a week? It has to be free market collusion at the filling station level. Just a casual observer notices the strange dynamics that go on in a given area... I mean come on, gas goes up on Friday? When everybody gets their pay check and their ride is on fumes? Stations have to go around and compare what other's are doing... Then everthing just slides one way or the other. Even if there are strange dynamics at play... What can be done... Absolutely nothing. Really boils down to human greed and opportunism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It has to be free market collusion at the filling station level. Just a casual observer notices the strange dynamics that go on in a given area... I mean come on, gas goes up on Friday? When everybody gets their pay check and their ride is on fumes? Stations have to go around and compare what other's are doing... Then everthing just slides one way or the other. Even if there are strange dynamics at play... What can be done... Absolutely nothing. Really boils down to human greed and opportunism. Buy your gas on Thursday. Come on, who the hell waits for payday to get gas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Buy your gas on Thursday. Come on, who the hell waits for payday to get gas? Day labor's. But they don't have cars, so its a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Buy your gas on Thursday. Come on, who the hell waits for payday to get gas? Not me... But I am in a working class town and notice it. I usually fill up when the tank is low... And it sucks when it is Friday or later in the week. Sometimes I don't like filling up on say Wednedday night after work at midnight... I may be off on Thurs and then drag the children around for a few mile... If I stall and wait til Friday... You usually get burned 5 or more cents a gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Blaming Obama for the high gasoline prices is about as idiotic as blaming Bush for the collapse of the economy. It's a straw man's argument. Obama's decision on the moratorium may have impacted short-term prices by a $2-4 a barrel and possibly a little more going out further than 3 years from now. That's it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It has to be free market collusion at the filling station level. Just a casual observer notices the strange dynamics that go on in a given area... I mean come on, gas goes up on Friday? When everybody gets their pay check and their ride is on fumes? Stations have to go around and compare what other's are doing... Then everthing just slides one way or the other. Even if there are strange dynamics at play... What can be done... Absolutely nothing. Really boils down to human greed and opportunism. Maybe if the government would let the oil companies drill in our own country the prices would lower and we wouldn't have to rely on the religious wacko middle east. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US since the mid 80s. We aren't allowed to use coal. Can't use nuclear power. wtf? But the green crew are as happy as pig in ****. Meanwhile, $4 a gallon is really going to help the already putrid economy. Obama is either retarded or evil. What a joke. Blaming Obama for the high gasoline prices is about as idiotic as blaming Bush for the collapse of the economy. It's a straw man's argument. Obama's decision on the moratorium may have impacted short-term prices by a $2-4 a barrel and possibly a little more going out further than 3 years from now. That's it!! Of course its not all his fault. THis has been going on for years. He's just the king of the dip ***** right now. His shutting the rigs down is just a indicator of really how clueless he is. Or he really does want to see the downfall of this country. Either way he's beyond useless. He's dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Maybe if the government would let the oil companies drill in our own country the prices would lower and we wouldn't have to rely on the religious wacko middle east. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US since the mid 80s. We aren't allowed to use coal. Can't use nuclear power. wtf? But the green crew are as happy as pig in ****. Meanwhile, $4 a gallon is really going to help the already putrid economy. Obama is either retarded or evil. What a joke. Of course its not all his fault. THis has been going on for years. He's just the king of the dip ***** right now. His shutting the rigs down is just a indicator of really how clueless he is. Or he really does want to see the downfall of this country. Either way he's beyond useless. He's dangerous. It was an idiotic economic move, but you have to understand who his donating constituents are, he was the great _____ hope of the progressive movement, they thought he was going to fulfill their entire agenda, and when he pushed through things that for most rational centrist thinking people were considered too far to the left then he pissed off many people, but of course there are the loons from the left that believe he hasnt gone far enough *cough cough* (lybob), so he HAS to throw these monkeys a banana once in a while or support will drop for him heading into the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Not me... But I am in a working class town and notice it. I usually fill up when the tank is low... And it sucks when it is Friday or later in the week. Sometimes I don't like filling up on say Wednedday night after work at midnight... I may be off on Thurs and then drag the children around for a few mile... If I stall and wait til Friday... You usually get burned 5 or more cents a gallon. Yeah that extra dollar really sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Not me... But I am in a working class town and notice it. I usually fill up when the tank is low... And it sucks when it is Friday or later in the week. Sometimes I don't like filling up on say Wednedday night after work at midnight... I may be off on Thurs and then drag the children around for a few mile... If I stall and wait til Friday... You usually get burned 5 or more cents a gallon. It's not your five cents anyway, it's a national resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) Snowballing effect? Why would suppliers and station owners drop their prices after getting high prices? At least it would take a slower time to lower prices. They hear the bad news overseas and then react. It doesn't have the same effect at lowering prices. Negative news is opportunistic news... People are leary. Just saying. Why all the wisecracks with my comments? I said, basically nothing can be done... How do you prove this type of petty gouging... It is when the gouging goes off the scale that it can sorta be proven... But small time collusion acting on the whole picture barely turns a blind eye. What gives? I am not saying the extra dollar sucks... I could care less... I drive 5 years old cars that get 15 miles per gallon... I really wouldn't feel the squeeze on the family budget till gas hits about 10 bucks a gallon. Anyway... When it rises... It is just some other product I am not buying in lieu of getting petrol and to work. Something always has to give... And Americans should start accepting that... Maybe en masse, the consumers can turn the tide back in their favor... Ha! Highly unlikey... Think they will give up their Snickers Bar® and soda while filling up? Edited March 8, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Snowballing effect? Why would suppliers and station owners drop their prices after getting high prices? At least it would take a slower time to lower prices. They hear the bad news overseas and then react. It doesn't have the same effect at lowering prices. Negative news is opportunistic news... People are leary. Just saying. Why all the wisecracks with my comments? I said, basically nothing can be done... How do you prove this type of petty gouging... It is when the gouging goes off the scale that it can sorta be proven... But small time collusion acting on the whole picture barely turns a blind eye. What gives? I am not saying the extra dollar sucks... I could care less... I drive 5 years old cars that get 15 miles per gallon... I really wouldn't feel the squeeze on the family budget till gas hits about 10 bucks a gallon. Anyway... When it rises... It is just some other product I am not buying in lieu of getting petrol and to work. Something always has to give... And Americans should start accepting that... Maybe en masse, the consumers can turn the tide back in their favor... Ha! Highly unlikey... Think they will give up their Snickers Bar® and soda while filling up? Looks like you got your computer back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Looks like you got your computer back Again... Why the wisecracks? Can you actually comment on the topic of tacit collusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Again... Why the wisecracks? Can you actually comment on the topic of tacit collusion? Between whom? Or is this just a "the man" is stepping on us opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Between whom? Or is this just a "the man" is stepping on us opinion? :rolleyes: No. That must be a double no... You really can't answer my question two posts up without wisecracks or simple ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 :rolleyes: No. That must be a double no... You really can't answer my question two posts up without wisecracks or simple ideas. What's there to answer. I'd rather here your proof of collusion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Yeah that extra dollar really sucks. that always cracks me up. People who drive halfway across San Antonio because the other Costco has gas 5 cents cheaper. I feel like I'm the only one that understands it costs more in gas to get there than what you save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) What's there to answer. I'd rather here your proof of collusion.. How convienent of you to leave out a very important word. I said it is hard to prove... Next to impossible... But then again, you aren't reading. And it isn't just the word collusion... The word tacit is very important here. Do you know the meaning of that word? that always cracks me up. People who drive halfway across San Antonio because the other Costco has gas 5 cents cheaper. I feel like I'm the only one that understands it costs more in gas to get there than what you save. Same here. I only buy gas in my town between the three of them offered... Citgo, Shell, and Speedway. Citgo... I don't go to because of the Venezuela thing... So it is really Shell and mostly Speedway... All within a half mile of each other. They do have quite and equillibrum between the three. Usually, Citgo is the price leader and the other two follow. Neither really undercuts the others knowing that they can't service all the cars that would be coming unless they expand... And that can't happen... Just no extra room/real estate in town... And anyway... Down the other side about a mile is another Shell. So usually all four are in the mix. Prices drop at the start of the week and go high starting Thursday night into Saturday... About 4 miles east near the expressway (394 to 94 to Chicago) there is another Shell... Their prices sometimes match... But usually not and are higher being near the expressway. Edited March 8, 2011 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 How convienent of you to leave out a very important word. I said it is hard to prove... Next to impossible... But then again, you aren't reading. And it isn't just the word collusion... The word tacit is very important here. Do you know the meaning of that word? Oh so now you're the board wordsmith. Did you ever stop to think WHY the collusion is near impossible to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 http://blog.energytomorrow.org/2011/01/the-impacts-of-delay.html?gclid=CJXokZq6vacCFQhy5Qod7Bk52Q http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/15/first-gulf-of-mexico-drilling-company-seahawk-files-bankruptcy-because-of-offshore-drilling-moratorium/ I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. Hmmm...so if we had increased domestic production does that mean the growing crude inventories at Cushing would be even higher? There's a glut of oil sitting in OK, yet prices are rising and it's Obama's fault...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 Hmmm...so if we had increased domestic production does that mean the growing crude inventories at Cushing would be even higher? There's a glut of oil sitting in OK, yet prices are rising and it's Obama's fault...? Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. BTW, did you read the articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. Sorry, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Gas prices have doubled in two years. We are more dependent on foreign oil than ever. If we had a stable domestic source of oil and abundant refinery capacity gasoline would be cheap. The money not being spent on gas would be spent on something else. Maybe by purchasing that something else jobs would be created. Next lesson after recess. BTW, did you read the articles? I guess I should've simply said "Obama bad." Oil prices have doubled from the bottom of a severe economic collapse--even Magox could predict that one! Why are you now throwing in refinery capacity? Who's fault is that? Again, maybe you can explain why oil inventories are growing and prices are rising? It's Obama's fault, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Again, maybe you can explain why oil inventories are growing and prices are rising? It's Obama's fault, right? Isn't this the time of year when they have to shut down capacity to clean equipment in anticipation of the summer blends? Just sayin'...again...annually... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Drilling either on shore or off shore would only lower prices if 1. you produced enough oil to produce slack in the world oil supply or 2. the government stepped in and controlled the price and selling point. I'd be shocked if either of those things happened, oil is a global commodity and sells where the price is highest. The United States would collect revenues (royalty fees) (sometimes shockingly little)the company may provide employment and if it's an American oil company they may pay extra taxes (Exxon paid near zero U.S. taxes 2009). The point is while some oil producing countries like Iran or Venezuela subsidizes gas and heating oil others like Great Britain with the North Sea oil never did- being that we are a free market country unless there were riots or a major war I would not expect our government to tell the oil companies to who and at what price they must sell their oil. On the refinery side it's mostly a problem of Nimby- refineries are most useful near water but that's where the most valuable land and wealthiest people hang out - another issue is many of the smaller refineries have been shut down and occasionally you read where the major oil companies won't sell to a smaller player or the bigs using government connections will stop smaller refineries from being built- and lastly there have been times when many refineries have been down for maintenance at the same time driving up gas prices but while many suspect collusion I don't think it's ever been proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Isn't this the time of year when they have to shut down capacity to clean equipment in anticipation of the summer blends? Just sayin'...again...annually... yup, march april is usually when refinery utilization rates drop to their lowest levels of the year and also investors usually start buying futures in anticipation of the summer driving season. Typically in a normal year, gasoline futures hit peaks right before and the beginning of the summer and towards the end of the summer, depending on actual demand vs. expectations. Of course, it is hurricane season and those disruptions or fear of it impacts prices. Drilling either on shore or off shore would only lower prices if 1. you produced enough oil to produce slack in the world oil supply or 2. the government stepped in and controlled the price and selling point. I'd be shocked if either of those things happened, oil is a global commodity and sells where the price is highest. The United States would collect revenues (royalty fees) (sometimes shockingly little)the company may provide employment and if it's an American oil company they may pay extra taxes (Exxon paid near zero U.S. taxes 2009). The point is while some oil producing countries like Iran or Venezuela subsidizes gas and heating oil others like Great Britain with the North Sea oil never did- being that we are a free market country unless there were riots or a major war I would not expect our government to tell the oil companies to who and at what price they must sell their oil. On the refinery side it's mostly a problem of Nimby- refineries are most useful near water but that's where the most valuable land and wealthiest people hang out - another issue is many of the smaller refineries have been shut down and occasionally you read where the major oil companies won't sell to a smaller player or the bigs using government connections will stop smaller refineries from being built- and lastly there have been times when many refineries have been down for maintenance at the same time driving up gas prices but while many suspect collusion I don't think it's ever been proved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whateverdude Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 (edited) This really is an easy fix. Most of the rise in oil is all about perception and speculation in the oil market. Make plans to open up the reserve and start making noise about tripling the oil drilling permits with talk of "environmental sound" drilling methods for oil extraction in area that are off limits now. You don't even have to follow through with it. Edited March 8, 2011 by whateverdude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 yup, march april is usually when refinery utilization rates drop to their lowest levels of the year and also investors usually start buying futures in anticipation of the summer driving season. Typically in a normal year, gasoline futures hit peaks right before and the beginning of the summer and towards the end of the summer, depending on actual demand vs. expectations. Of course, it is hurricane season and those disruptions or fear of it impacts prices. Every single frickin' year for something like eight years. And it's obvious enough that even I, with almost no industry knowledge, was able to figure it out. And it's still Bush's/Obama's fault. People are !@#$ing idiots. (But let me tell you...if Obama decides to release oil from the SPR, you're going to see a major Sheentastic wig-out from me. I don't think he will...but still, major Sheentastic wig-out territory.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 This really is an easy fix. Most of the rise in oil is all about perception and speculation in the oil market. Make plans to open up the reserve and start making noise about tripling the oil drilling permits with talk of "environmental sound" drilling methods for oil extraction in area that are off limits now. You don't even have to follow through with it. It is ridiculous with the amount of reserves that the U.S has that we are importing well over half of our oil. This country could do much to create jobs, lower gas prices and in turn use that money elsewhere to create more jobs, just by tapping our own resources. It is true that the rise in the price of oil is due to speculation. What do you think the speculators would do if our government announced that it was going to loosen the regs and put us on a path to energy independence? What would a reduction of 12,000,000 barrels of oil demand do to the price of oil worldwide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 http://blog.energytomorrow.org/2011/01/the-impacts-of-delay.html?gclid=CJXokZq6vacCFQhy5Qod7Bk52Q http://dailycaller.com/2011/02/15/first-gulf-of-mexico-drilling-company-seahawk-files-bankruptcy-because-of-offshore-drilling-moratorium/ I spent $55 to fill my sedan up today. IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Drill now baby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 Every single frickin' year for something like eight years. And it's obvious enough that even I, with almost no industry knowledge, was able to figure it out. And it's still Bush's/Obama's fault. People are !@#$ing idiots. (But let me tell you...if Obama decides to release oil from the SPR, you're going to see a major Sheentastic wig-out from me. I don't think he will...but still, major Sheentastic wig-out territory.) Yeah, I dont believe that would work, the market isn't concerned with Cushing Oil supplies (and usually never is unless it's in what I call "Bear-mode"), it's focused on supply disruptions and fear of it escalating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Drill now baby!!! What administration is not giving permits out? Giving permits out will not solve today's problem today. It will help to solve it down the road. Giving permits out will also set a tone that eventually will lead to less speculation that the price will stay high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 8, 2011 Share Posted March 8, 2011 It is ridiculous with the amount of reserves that the U.S has that we are importing well over half of our oil. This country could do much to create jobs, lower gas prices and in turn use that money elsewhere to create more jobs, just by tapping our own resources. It is true that the rise in the price of oil is due to speculation. What do you think the speculators would do if our government announced that it was going to loosen the regs and put us on a path to energy independence? What would a reduction of 12,000,000 barrels of oil demand do to the price of oil worldwide? probably would have a one day $2-3 dollar effect on the news of opening up more land for drilling and then would have a much larger 4-10 year tangible impact on more supplies hitting the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2011 Author Share Posted March 8, 2011 probably would have a one day $2-3 dollar effect on the news of opening up more land for drilling and then would have a much larger 4-10 year tangible impact on more supplies hitting the market. We have to start somewhere. I read a quote from John Kerry the other day from April 2001. When asked about opening up more land for drilling he said something like "it'll take ten years before that oil will ever hit the market". Time flies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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