How far are we from GB? do we need a QB?

[JohnC]

I just don't get how Bills fans, after watching elite quarterbacks lead their teams, often depleted, to championship after championship still rail against the utterly obvious notion that the Bills need to improve their qb play at all costs.

 

A few years ago Miami had the first pick in the draft. They were debating between LT Jake Long and qb Matt Ryan. Miami under Parcells took Long and Atlanta took Matt Ryan. Jake Long is an all-pro LT. Ryan, playing the most important postion, has lifted his prior struggling franchise to a playoff and upper level team. I'm confident that if Parcells could have a do over he would make a different decision.

 

You are right. There are so many people who believe that the less than mediocre Fitz is an adequate starter. I just don't understand the reaoning.

[The Senator]

How far are we from GB?

A quick search indicates Buffalo is 471 miles from Green Bay by air, approximately 745 miles if you're driving.

 

do we need a QB?

Probably, but it's not our biggest need this season - agree completely with your comments about Fitz, and any QB we draft in April will not be as good as Fitz will be this coming season. Furthermore, given more playing time and experience, Fitz may develop into an elite QB under Gailey's tutelage - especially if the supporting cast (o-line/receivers/running game) around him also improves.

 

Therefore, best to focus on drafting/signing a cast of angry, nasty, fire-snorting, run-stuffing, QB-maiming, 'I'm gonna rip your head off and crap down your neck'-types for our defensive front seven while we see what Fitz does with a full compliment of OTAs, camp, and preseason with the entire team and coaching staff knowing he's our starting QB in 2011. We may be pleasantly surpised - shocked, even.

 

And yes, if there's a Ryan Mallett or Christian Ponder still available at the #34-pick and 6' 7" 325 lb. animal LT Gabe Carimi and/or 6' 6" 290 lb. DE JJ Watt are also still available, then Nix will have to think hard about that choice - it would not be a choice I'd want to have to make.

 

Again, JMO.

 

GO BILLSSS!!!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

.

Edited February 7, 2011 by The Senator

[LabattBlue]

We have a rabid, diehard fanbase just like Green Bay....after that we're pretty far away.

While Bills fans deserve credit for shelling out money over the last decade to watch a crap product, they are far from the best fans in the league. Green Bay which is a much smaller market sells out Lambeau regardless of the product on the field.

 

I'm not saying all these cities(see link below) have better fans than the Bills(market size has a lot to do with many of the sellout streaks), but Green Bay is head and shoulders above most of them in my eyes...

 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_NFL_team_has_the_longest_sell_out_streak

[KOKBILLS]

The Bills are light years from the Packers, Steelers, Jets, Ravens, etc., etc. because the Bills can't rush the passer and can't stop the run.

 

Until that is fixed, it doesn't matter if Otto Graham is the QB.

 

Yes it does...

 

Teams that start their building with the Franchise QB Win Super Bowls...Teams that try to build other ways are moving upstream without a paddle...Not that it can't be done...But getting that Franchise QB first is definitely the easier, more efficient, and in the long-run more effective approach...

 

You can say that there may not be a QB available that is going to be a Franchise QB this Off Season...And that's fair enough...But to say The Bills need to build away from QB before they get their QB because somehow some way it's going to make things easier for that QB...Well...That's not the way it works...The Buffalo Bills were not a very good Franchise when they finally Signed Jim Kelly...The Cowboys went 1-15 in Troy Aikman's first year...They were TERRIBLE! The Colts were 3-13 in Manning's first year...Think they had some holes to fill? The Packers were 6-10 in Rodgers 1st Year as a Starter...The Steelers were 7-9, and 6-10 the 2 years prior to Drafting Big Ben...The Giants were 4-12 before Drafting Eli, and 6-10 in his Rookie Year...Is there really any reason to go on?

 

The Bills need a Franchise QB...They may or may not find that QB this off season...But they can build around the QB position all they want...It will NEVER have the overall effect that a Franchise QB will give them...EVER...

[KOKBILLS]

A few years ago Miami had the first pick in the draft. They were debating between LT Jake Long and qb Matt Ryan. Miami under Parcells took Long and Atlanta took Matt Ryan. Jake Long is an all-pro LT. Ryan, playing the most important postion, has lifted his prior struggling franchise to a playoff and upper level team. I'm confident that if Parcells could have a do over he would make a different decision.

 

You are right. There are so many people who believe that the less than mediocre Fitz is an adequate starter. I just don't understand the reaoning.

 

Bingo!!!

 

Of coarse the Year prior Jamarcus Russell went #1, Calvin Johnson went #2, and Joe Thomas went #3...So the idea is get the RIGHT QB...And that's on the Scouting Department, Gailey, and in the end it's Nix call...And no question that makes me a bit nervous... ...It's definitely a gamble no matter...But all things being equal (ie overall Draft Grade) you HAVE to take the QB...Because there simply is no Position on the Field that can improve your Team as much as having a Franchise QB can...You just have to get it right...

[T master]

I agree with a lot of what your post has to say . After the SB yesterday watching Big Ben throw 2 INT's he and fitz have a lot of similarities to there game , as you said i would like to see him given the team for the whole season !!!!

 

But the one thing that both teams had in common in yesterdays game is top notch defenses !! Both were rated 1st & 2nd in defense against the pass & run which leads to the old adage ,

 

Defense wins championships !!! And again has proven to be right !! GB scored 14 in the first and at least 7 in the second half of the game off of turn overs and they came from the D & with out that they would have lost plain & simple .

 

I hope we go Defense with our first 2 picks in the draft . D front or LB in the first & second which ever way it works i'll be happy .

 

Fairly , Dareus, or Miller are my picks . Any way we can get them they would help our D . Every body says Miller is to small to work in the 3-4 D but the guy is 6' 3" 237 . Most good LB's are around 250 lbs i don't see it being that hard for him with that frame to add 18 lbs , or hey we could just wait for Mabin to develop ????

[The Senator]

Yes it does...

 

Teams that start their building with the Franchise QB Win Super Bowls...Teams that try to build other ways are moving upstream without a paddle...Not that it can't be done...But getting that Franchise QB first is definitely the easier, more efficient, and in the long-run more effective approach...

 

You can say that there may not be a QB available that is going to be a Franchise QB this Off Season...And that's fair enough...But to say The Bills need to build away from QB before they get their QB because somehow some way it's going to make things easier for that QB...Well...That's not the way it works...The Buffalo Bills were not a very good Franchise when they finally Signed Jim Kelly...The Cowboys went 1-15 in Troy Aikman's first year...They were TERRIBLE! The Colts were 3-13 in Manning's first year...Think they had some holes to fill? The Packers were 6-10 in Rodgers 1st Year as a Starter...The Steelers were 7-9, and 6-10 the 2 years prior to Drafting Big Ben...The Giants were 4-12 before Drafting Eli, and 6-10 in his Rookie Year...Is there really any reason to go on?

 

The Bills need a Franchise QB...They may or may not find that QB this off season...But they can build around the QB position all they want...It will NEVER have the overall effect that a Franchise QB will give them...EVER...

While I agree that the Bills need what folks generally refer to as a " Franchise QB " , I would submit that a ' franchise QB ' is one that puts up awesome stats and wins games, and that ' franchise QB ' can be found in the late rounds of the draft, or bagging groceries at a Hy-Vee store, or may even already exist on the Bills roster.

 

Since we're more than just a ' franchise QB ' away from the Superbowl, we don't know Fitz's full potential yet, and there is no obvious ' can't-miss ' franchise QB available in this draft, I'd stick to shoring-up our biggest weakness - get that nasty, fire-snorting, defensive front seven in place. Our offense has shown they can put points on the board - let's get a D that can keep the opposing offense off the field. JMO.

[NoSaint]

While I agree that the Bills need what folks generally refer to as a " Franchise QB " , I would submit that a ' franchise QB ' is one that puts up awesome stats and wins games, and that ' franchise QB ' can be found in the late rounds of the draft, or bagging groceries at a Hy-Vee store, or may even already exist on the Bills roster.

 

Since we're more than just a ' franchise QB ' away from the Superbowl, we don't know Fitz's full potential yet, and there is no obvious ' can't-miss ' franchise QB available in this draft, I'd stick to shoring-up our biggest weakness - get that nasty, fire-snorting, defensive front seven in place. Our offense has shown they can put points on the board - let's get a D that can keep the opposing offense off the field. JMO.

 

The funny part is after watching that, people still think fitz is good enough. Look at what Rodgers did without his #1 receiver, #1 TE, #1 rb.... His accuracy was amazing and is a huge part of why he wins that game and we don't.

 

That said we need to assemble D talent and if our qb doesn't exist at 3, then he doesn't but that game was won by a qb playing a great game against a great defense no matter how many weapons were gone.

 

Whether you run, pass, wco, run n shoot, bend but don't break, cause turnovers or are a steel curtain can be dictated by the talent that falls to you. Take advantage of the opportunities that come to you in the draft and FA. The one constant, is a qb.

[aristocrat]

Yes it does...

 

Teams that start their building with the Franchise QB Win Super Bowls...Teams that try to build other ways are moving upstream without a paddle...Not that it can't be done...But getting that Franchise QB first is definitely the easier, more efficient, and in the long-run more effective approach...

 

You can say that there may not be a QB available that is going to be a Franchise QB this Off Season...And that's fair enough...But to say The Bills need to build away from QB before they get their QB because somehow some way it's going to make things easier for that QB...Well...That's not the way it works...The Buffalo Bills were not a very good Franchise when they finally Signed Jim Kelly...The Cowboys went 1-15 in Troy Aikman's first year...They were TERRIBLE! The Colts were 3-13 in Manning's first year...Think they had some holes to fill? The Packers were 6-10 in Rodgers 1st Year as a Starter...The Steelers were 7-9, and 6-10 the 2 years prior to Drafting Big Ben...The Giants were 4-12 before Drafting Eli, and 6-10 in his Rookie Year...Is there really any reason to go on?

 

The Bills need a Franchise QB...They may or may not find that QB this off season...But they can build around the QB position all they want...It will NEVER have the overall effect that a Franchise QB will give them...EVER...

 

solid post

[BuffaloWings]

The funny part is after watching that, people still think fitz is good enough. Look at what Rodgers did without his #1 receiver, #1 TE, #1 rb.... His accuracy was amazing and is a huge part of why he wins that game and we don't.

 

I think that's because Fitz was better than Trent, who may or may not have been better than JP. Either way, it's like saying your uncooked meat tastes better than the rancid stuff.

 

That said we need to assemble D talent and if our qb doesn't exist at 3, then he doesn't but that game was won by a qb playing a great game against a great defense no matter how many weapons were gone.

 

Whether you run, pass, wco, run n shoot, bend but don't break, cause turnovers or are a steel curtain can be dictated by the talent that falls to you. Take advantage of the opportunities that come to you in the draft and FA. The one constant, is a qb.

Spot on. I've been saying this for years - a team should draft the best player available at the position of their greatest need...the only possible exception to that is if there is a QB you think is the next Joe Montana. Otherwise, get the best DL, LB, RB, WR, or CB that's available.

[iinii]

127 to 1

if you can upgrade a position, especially quarterback, then yes.

[KD in CA]

Yes it does...

 

Teams that start their building with the Franchise QB Win Super Bowls...Teams that try to build other ways are moving upstream without a paddle...Not that it can't be done...But getting that Franchise QB first is definitely the easier, more efficient, and in the long-run more effective approach...

 

You can say that there may not be a QB available that is going to be a Franchise QB this Off Season...And that's fair enough...But to say The Bills need to build away from QB before they get their QB because somehow some way it's going to make things easier for that QB...Well...That's not the way it works...The Buffalo Bills were not a very good Franchise when they finally Signed Jim Kelly...The Cowboys went 1-15 in Troy Aikman's first year...They were TERRIBLE! The Colts were 3-13 in Manning's first year...Think they had some holes to fill? The Packers were 6-10 in Rodgers 1st Year as a Starter...The Steelers were 7-9, and 6-10 the 2 years prior to Drafting Big Ben...The Giants were 4-12 before Drafting Eli, and 6-10 in his Rookie Year...Is there really any reason to go on?

 

The Bills need a Franchise QB...They may or may not find that QB this off season...But they can build around the QB position all they want...It will NEVER have the overall effect that a Franchise QB will give them...EVER...

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. If Luck was in the draft and available there isn't any question, so yes, my comments are within the context of the current draft/FA realities.

 

Notice how your list is made up of guys who all started as rookies (other than Rodgers who had a HOFer in front of him). Far too many people here seem to think any one-year wonder in college = franchise saving NFL QB, and then say they'd be happy if he sat on the bench for two years!

 

 

And I'm also saying that finding a QB without fixing the rest of the team won't bring much success, so fix what is most readible fixable now based on available talent.

Edited February 7, 2011 by KD in CT

[2003Contenders]

I just don't get how Bills fans, after watching elite quarterbacks lead their teams, often depleted, to championship after championship still rail against the utterly obvious notion that the Bills need to improve their qb play at all costs.

 

I agree.

 

The only problem is that there isn't (IMHO) a QB like that in this year's draft class, and other teams rarely make elite QBs available.

[BuffOrange]

How far away is Rosanne Barr from Angelina Jolie?

[JohnC]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If Luck was in the draft and available there isn't any question, so yes, my comments are within the context of the current draft/FA realities.

 

Notice how your list is made up of guys who all started as rookies (other than Rodgers who had a HOFer in front of him). Far too many people here seem to think any one-year wonder in college = franchise saving NFL QB, and then say they'd be happy if he sat on the bench for two years!

 

 

And I'm also saying that finding a QB without fixing the rest of the team won't bring much success, so fix what is most readible fixable now based on available talent.[/font[

 

When the Colts drafted Manning were all their other deficiencies addressed? Of course not. When Atlanta drafted Matt Ryan were all their other deficiencies addressed? Of course not. When Tampa Bay drafted Josh Freeman were all their other deficiencies addressed? Of course not. When the Rams drafted Bradford were all their other deficiencies addressed? Of course not. When the Lions drafted Matthew Stafford were all their other deficiencies addressed? Of course not. When the Bengals drafted Palmer were all their other defiencies addressed? Of course not. When the Eagles drafted McNabb were all their other defiencies addressed? Of course not.

 

If our scouts believe there is a franchise qb in this draft then they have to go for it. If not, then address one of the other multiple needs. The criticisms that Newton is receiving is the same type of criticisms that Josh Freeman received when he was a qb prospect in his draft year. From what I have seen of Newton his talent level is on the high end. Passing on this qb talent could end up setting this franchise further back. When your back is already to the wall you can't get much further back.

 

Let me make this clear. The Bills are closer to being an expansion level team than a competitive team. So it will take years to meaningfully upgrade the roster. What is obvious to me is that no team stands much of a chance at success unless they have a good starting qb. That type of player is presently not on the roster.

[KOKBILLS]

While I agree that the Bills need what folks generally refer to as a " Franchise QB " , I would submit that a ' franchise QB ' is one that puts up awesome stats and wins games, and that ' franchise QB ' can be found in the late rounds of the draft, or bagging groceries at a Hy-Vee store, or may even already exist on the Bills roster.

 

Since we're more than just a ' franchise QB ' away from the Superbowl, we don't know Fitz's full potential yet, and there is no obvious ' can't-miss ' franchise QB available in this draft, I'd stick to shoring-up our biggest weakness - get that nasty, fire-snorting, defensive front seven in place. Our offense has shown they can put points on the board - let's get a D that can keep the opposing offense off the field. JMO.

 

I don't know about "we," but I know what I think about Fitz's potential...Not to say that I'm right...It's just My opinion...But it does fascinate me that so many Bills Fans feel Fitz will get better and not level off, or even worse regress...I'm not saying that he can't get better, because obviously it's a possibility...But the Guy has had 36 NFL Starts...That's 2 1/4 Full Seasons...He took a big leap in 2010 no question...But he's going to have to take a leap equally as big to start being mentioned amongst the NFL's best QB's...And that's what The Bills need him to be...Amongst the best...Let say Top 10...

 

Here's what Fitz will have to do to be a Top 10 QB in 2011...

 

Improve his Completion % by 4.8%...

Throw for 653 more Yards...

Throw about 5 less INT's...

Improve his QB Rating by about 10 Points...

Keep everything else he did in 2010 about the same...

 

Now I'm not saying that Fitz can't do these things because obviously he can...Maybe...I'm just not convinced, and I'm DEFINITELY not convinced that Fitz can be a Top 10 calibre QB...So the way I see it, because I value the QB Position SO highly, it's by far the biggest unresolved Need The Bills have...Like I said before I'm not sure they can address it this Off Season...But to me it's still #1 by a mile...Hope that explains where I'm coming from on all this...

[NoSaint]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If Luck was in the draft and available there isn't any question, so yes, my comments are within the context of the current draft/FA realities.

 

Notice how your list is made up of guys who all started as rookies (other than Rodgers who had a HOFer in front of him). Far too many people here seem to think any one-year wonder in college = franchise saving NFL QB, and then say they'd be happy if he sat on the bench for two years!

 

 

And I'm also saying that finding a QB without fixing the rest of the team won't bring much success, so fix what is most readible fixable now based on available talent.

 

 

Agreed - I think any team needs to focus on the talent available. Were that a big LT and a can't miss RT at 1 and 2, I'd be about it. Am efficient and running offense would help the d. This year it seems DL is the pick at 3, which happens to match our need to stop the run and free up LBs. It looks like RT, LB, DT and MAYBE qb will be good value in 2-3. Find value, pull the trigger, scheme around it.

[Van_phelaN1]

I just don't get how Bills fans, after watching elite quarterbacks lead their teams, often depleted, to championship after championship still rail against the utterly obvious notion that the Bills need to improve their qb play at all costs.

 

Elite QBs win Superbowls and we do not have one. I am a fan of Fitzpatrick. I LOVED the effort the guy showed and his toughness. But I know that he is not elite. Can he be? Well I am not going to say no and have him prove me wrong (but by all means Ryan please do) but he isn't right now.

In order to win CONSISTENTLY the Bills need to upgrade both of their lines.

 

Also, there is always the exception to the rule every once in a while in the form of a Trent Dilfer.

[Fixxxer]

GB has so much depth. They lost 6 starters from their opening day roster during the season and then lost Woodson and Driver tonight. Ted Thompson has really stocked that team with outstanding starters and capable depth players. Where the Packers have good depth with later round picks who can fill in, Buffalo goes dumpster diving for UDFA's, street free agents, and guys plucked from practice squads.

 

Tramon Williams (UFDA), Tom Crabtree (from KC PS), Sam Shields (UFDA), Frank Zombo (UFDA) say hi and wave their SB rings at you. It matters not where they come from the important thing is if they can play the game.

[NoSaint]

Tramon Williams (UFDA), Tom Crabtree (from KC PS), Sam Shields (UFDA), Frank Zombo (UFDA) say hi and wave their SB rings at you. It matters not where they come from the important thing is if they can play the game.

 

i think thats one of the few places we do excel. if we hit on our early picks we would have a qb (we ended up with losman, bledsoe and RJ with our 3 first round picks spent in the last 12 years instead), a franchise back(henry, mcgahee, marshawn, spiller), a franchise pass rush rusher(oh maybin, how you kill me), and a LT (mckinney rather then williams) that would probably be nearing the end of a very good career. our team has a lot of good depth, and even steals (greer, fredjack, peters, williams) just a total black hole of elite talent at the top of the draft. i hate the we shouldve wouldve couldve threads, but i believe in this case, it illustrates that the difference isnt the bottom of the draft, its the top that sets us back.